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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2004

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Comparison of chemical storage bottle materials

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David Nebenzahl - 07 Nov 2004 02:06 GMT
Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for storing
chemicals? A while back someone posted a chart showing the relative
permeability of glass and various plastics, but I can't find it now and am
lazy. (I remember that PET was good, but I'd like to know just how good.)

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jjs - 07 Nov 2004 03:25 GMT
> Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for storing
> chemicals? A while back someone posted a chart showing the relative
> permeability of glass and various plastics, but I can't find it now and am
> lazy. (I remember that PET was good, but I'd like to know just how good.)

Blown PET bottles are the least permeable to oxygen of the common plastics.
Non-blown PET is good, too. So you would then think that pop bottles might
be good for storage - but the caps are often more permeable than you would
like. Same with glass bottles - be wary of the caps.

But permeability to oxygen isn't a huge issue in darkrooms that actually
_use_ chemistry because it's replaced or replenished regularly.
Mike King - 07 Nov 2004 06:06 GMT
You can always put a piece of Saran wrap under the cap before screwing it
down.  "Original" Saran wrap is made of a different plastic, vinylidene
chloride polymer, than most food wraps, polyethylene,  so accept no
substitutes.

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darkroommike

----------

> > Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for storing
> > chemicals? A while back someone posted a chart showing the relative
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> But permeability to oxygen isn't a huge issue in darkrooms that actually
> _use_ chemistry because it's replaced or replenished regularly.
David Nebenzahl - 07 Nov 2004 20:57 GMT
On 11/6/2004 7:25 PM jjs spake thus:

>> Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for storing
>> chemicals? A while back someone posted a chart showing the relative
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> But permeability to oxygen isn't a huge issue in darkrooms that actually
> _use_ chemistry because it's replaced or replenished regularly.

Good point, that. But it shows that I'm an amateur who uses chemistry rarely
enough that it *is* an issue in my case, possibly like others here.

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The Wogster - 08 Nov 2004 14:01 GMT
>>Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for storing
>>chemicals? A while back someone posted a chart showing the relative
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> But permeability to oxygen isn't a huge issue in darkrooms that actually
> _use_ chemistry because it's replaced or replenished regularly.

It can still be an issue, suppose your processing a special film, and
the only developer you can get for that film comes in a 25 litre size.
You need to mix this 1 part concentrate with 3 parts water to make a 1
shot solution.  Your tank needs 500ml, so out of your 25L bottle you
need 1/8L (125ml).  At 1 roll per day, you will take 100 days to go
through that 25L bottle.  The concentrate, when exposed to air lasts a
week.

One thing is that we are not the only ones with this problem, wine
makers have  been dealing with the problem of keeping oxygen out of
their red wines over an extended period of time, for centuries.

They may offer us the best solution, pick up some dark 1L wine bottles,
corks, and those fancy plastic cap covers at a wine making store you may
need to purchase a corker and sealer to do it properly.  Pour the
solution into the bottle until full enough, add a cork and seal.  Use
different seals for different chemistries.  When you need a new bottle
of chemistry, pull off the seal and remove the cork.  Now write the date
on the label, and whatever isn't used in time, you toss.  However you
keep the bottle and maybe the cork for reuse (if you can't reuse the
cork, then they are usually cheap).   Maybe you used only a little of
it, maybe you used most of the bottle.   Beats losing all of it.

I have not tried this, but will as soon as I get my darkroom running again.

W
James Robinson - 07 Nov 2004 13:14 GMT
> Anyone got the data on the qualities of various materials for
> storing chemicals?

Here are a couple of threads on the subject:

http://tinyurl.com/6qv4n
http://tinyurl.com/6vgjz
Dan Quinn - 08 Nov 2004 22:50 GMT
RE: David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens>

 This subject came up a few days ago in the thread, chem storage
in polycarbonate , this NG.                                   Dan
David Nebenzahl - 09 Nov 2004 06:13 GMT
On 11/8/2004 2:50 PM Dan Quinn spake thus:

> RE: David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens>
>
>   This subject came up a few days ago in the thread, chem storage
> in polycarbonate , this NG.

I know it came up, but there was no data, which was what I was after in my query.

Good thing someone else here actually posted something useful. Following James
Robinson's tiny URL, I retrieved the following table that was posted here back
in July:

> This lists oxygen permeability, per unit of thickness, of various types
> of plastics. The lower the number the better, meaning less oxygen would
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Ethylene Vinyl alcohol copolymer (EVAC):  0.1 (interior coatings,
>                                                 gasoline containers)

Note that PET (aka PETE) seems to be much, much better than polycarbonate. (At
least so far as permeability is concerned.)

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Dan Quinn - 15 Nov 2004 00:19 GMT
> > This lists oxygen permeability, per unit of thickness, of various
> > plastics. The lower the number the better, ...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Note that PET (aka PETE) seems to be much, much better than
> polycarbonate. (At least so far as permeability is concerned.)

 I think photo chemistry concentrates must be supplied in PET or
better. I've a bottle or two around which have developed a vacuum.
 I don't worry about containers. I use glass Boston Rounds. They
are very available, low cost, sized from 1/2 oz to 1 gallon,
clear or amber, regular or wide mouth, and accept the cork
plus screw type of cap; Polyseal or Polycone.                 Dan
 
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