one more time ...;-) Tri-X and d-76/d-23

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marcin - 02 Nov 2004 12:24 GMT

Hi everyone !

I have few hours to train and loaded tank
in backpack. Digging thru archive.
Looking for good times for tri-x 400 rated
between 400-800 (d-23) - wedding
and 800-1600 (d-76)* - wedding party.
I'll probably find something, but if anyone could
rescue me with some advice, I would be very glad.
I'm not looking for book, but short instruction
like tri-x 400@1600 in d-76 1+1 13 min std. agitation ;-)

Best regards,
First time user of tri-x

Martin

* in fact, d-76d

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Jean-David Beyer - 02 Nov 2004 12:53 GMT

> Hi everyone !
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Best regards,
> First time user of tri-x

Then do not use tri-x. Not that it is a bad film or anything, but if the
images are important and cannot be reshot, you should use the film you
_already know_, the film that you have calibrated, the film you can predict.

BTW, in any case, if it is a film you do not know and have not calibrated,
in my experience you should shoot it at about 1/2 the box speed (in your
case, at EI 200), not twice the box speed which will present you with
challenges that you do not wish to meet when shooting something
non-repeatable such as a wedding. Why two different developers. Use the
developer you already know, too.

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Donald Qualls - 02 Nov 2004 13:27 GMT

>> Hi everyone !
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> something non-repeatable such as a wedding. Why two different
> developers. Use the developer you already know, too.

Now that Jean has told you not to do what you're already in process of
doing...

For a one stop push, you'll usually need to extend development around
50%; for two stops, you'll need to double it. If you were in the United
States, I'd recommend shooting the whole deal, wedding and party, at EI
1250 and developing all the Tri-X in Diafine. Failing that, the Massive
Dev Chart shows 9.5 minutes in D-76 for EI 1600, or 13.25 in D-76 1:1;
for D-23, they give times only for EI 400, 7.5 minutes in stock or 13 in
1:1. I'd personally recommend shooting it all at the same speed
(reduces chance of errors) and developing in D-76 in preference over
D-23; D-23 is a speed losing reduced contrast developer, and pushing
film raising the effective speed by increasing contrast -- seems
incompatible.

I haven't done either of these processes myself, BTW, I'm just reading
from a chart that's usually pretty accurate. I use Diafine for Tri-X
when I need more than EI 400 -- but I'm well aware it's almost
unobtainable in Europe (not sure why; it ships as dry chemicals and is
no more hazardous than other developers).

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The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

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Jean-David Beyer - 02 Nov 2004 13:38 GMT

Donald Qualls wrote (in part):

>>> Hi everyone !
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Now that Jean has told you not to do what you're already in process of
> doing...

He has only a few hours (from 06:24 this morning) to calibrate the new
film and developer combination. To become familiar with how to print the
resulting negatives, and then go?

Why did the O.P. pick such an inopportune time to switch film? Why should
he not use a film-developer combination with which he is already familiar?

I would not wish to jump out of an aircraft with a parachute (which I have
never done before), and an instruction book in my hand on how to work one.

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marcin - 02 Nov 2004 13:56 GMT

> He has only a few hours (from 06:24 this morning) to calibrate the new
> film and developer combination. To become familiar with how to print the
> resulting negatives, and then go?

one moment, I'm leaving enlargener in home ;-)

> Why did the O.P. pick such an inopportune time to switch film? Why should
> he not use a film-developer combination with which he is already familiar?

beacause it was only b&w film availble,
eventually, i could use superia or gold or ProFoto.
Hmmm, why not use tri-x....

I'm also reading charts in a moment (between mails)
and have some ideas. Just thinking that someone
have some good tested combinations and could write
me why and how ;-)

btw. I love this suggestions "use Diafine".
maybe somebady could send me a package
and I see is it worth of this?

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Mike King - 02 Nov 2004 18:53 GMT

If you don't have time to test anything shoot Fujicolor 800 (much easier to
find color film everywhere) and let the lab process it. You can make very
good Black and Whites by a number of different methods from the resulting
color negatives.

BTW if you want to test Diafine, do what the rest of us do, buy your own.

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darkroommike

----------

> > He has only a few hours (from 06:24 this morning) to calibrate the
> new
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> maybe somebady could send me a package
> and I see is it worth of this?

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Martin - 18 Nov 2004 09:22 GMT

> BTW if you want to test Diafine, do what the rest of us do, buy your own.

Does anybody know how to buy Diafine in Europe
or which seller/shop send me package to europe?

best regards
Martin

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marcin - 02 Nov 2004 13:38 GMT

> Then do not use tri-x. Not that it is a bad film or anything, but if the
> images are important and cannot be reshot, you should use the film you
> _already know_, the film that you have calibrated, the film you can predict.

life is full of suprises ;-)

> BTW, in any case, if it is a film you do not know and have not calibrated,
> in my experience you should shoot it at about 1/2 the box speed (in your
> case, at EI 200), not twice the box speed which will present you with
> challenges that you do not wish to meet

sometimes you don't have a choice

> when shooting something
> non-repeatable such as a wedding.

wedding like wedding, nothing important.
I wasn't a photographer there ;-)

> Why two different developers. Use the
> developer you already know, too.

I know both; why them?
1) i have those powders right now ;)
2) d-23 for its grain. EI 800 is one-stop
push (not much ;) in "one-stop-less" dev.
It's gonna be an experiment. And i don't like to shoot
walls and charts for experiments - I can't feel them,
you know what I mean?
3) d-76 is one of my favourites, better then previous
for pushing, one of my favourites. But I know it with ilford and foma,
not tri-x. I've checked Kodaks technote and digitaltruth and probably
will use their times.

Anyway, thanks for good advice - maybe someday I calibrate myself ;-)

Best regards
Marcin (Martin in polish ;-)

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