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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2004vignetting with beseler 67c
hi all- i'm a new poster to this ng. i've been reading for a while - it's refreshing to know somebody else besides myself is still committed to the wet darkroom. cheers. anyhooo- i've been using my workhorse beseler 67sc with the condenser head for years. i print mainly bw 6x6 med format. (i used to print bw and color ra4 and ep2 etc for a living - bw is still my first love...). i've noticed significant vignetting lately. it's always been an issue, but i worked around it ok. still do. i've got a system down! but, i would like to eliminate this problem if possible without replacing the enlarger. i have messed around with all i can mess around with on the darned thing, but still get the vignetting. i'm using 50 and 80mm nikon lenses as appropriate that are in pristine condition. bellows seem in good shape too - no sagging etc. i've done google searches, and looked at forums but have found little in terms of how to fix this. is it fixable? any ideas? thanks. -christina  Signaturesee www.tortoisephotography.com If this is a new problem, look for something out of place in the condenser area. nothing out of whack that i can see. it's not a new problem. i've just noticed it more lately i guess. sometimes it gets annoying. i've seen old posts on other boards describing the same problem - but nobody knows (that i could find anyway) what to do about it. it might just be a quirk. any other ideas? maybe i should just ditch it and get a new enlarger - i've thought about a cold head for a while. not sure if i want to pay for one though... -c. > If this is a new problem, look for something out of place in the condenser > area. Is there anything in the condenser head that adjusts for size of negative or focal length of lens, the way there is in the 23C? > nothing out of whack that i can see. > it's not a new problem. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > though... > -c. The edge fall off you get using a 67 for 6x7 is always an issue. I would think there is some adjustment in the condenser housing for changing formats, but the 67 isn't what I would choose if 6x6 or 6x7 were my standard format. It's essentially a 35mm enlarger that can be used for 6x7, but not ideal for 6x7. You might try Beseler about any possible format adjustments if your manula lists none. http://www.beseler.com/ > nothing out of whack that i can see. > it's not a new problem. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If this is a new problem, look for something out of place in the condenser > > area. Dear Ms. Falise #1 solution is to get a "D" series Omega ;-) Seriously, I'm pretty sure this very problem in a long thread in the last month. If not the last mo. no more than 2 mos ago. I think that definitive solutions were given. IIRC the poster solved his problem. As much as I don't care for Bessler enlargers, one thing I'm certain about is, this is not normal & can be corrected w/o buying another enlarger. First I would visit Besslers site & download diagrams & instructions for your enlarger. Second, read the instructions & study the diagrams, looking in particular for the condenser & light bulb instructions. Third w/ hard copies of the above, take the enlarger apart. Look for any damaged material. Also look for parts #s particularly on the condensers. You may have the wrong condenser installed. Somewhere there has to be something wrong that's fixable. Good luck, John Christina >vignetting with beseler 67c On the back of the panel covering the condenser assembly you will find an illustration showing exactly the correct configuration of the condensers. Another recommends upgrading to an Omega D enlarger. A D2, 5 or 6 would be a great improvement. The D3 and D4 are autofocus. With these you need to be careful to get one with the correct focusing guides/cams. Bob AZ RE: "C. Falise" <cfalise@tampabay.rr.com> I think that very odd; a BESELER 6x7 that won't cover the 6x6 format. I'd start with the light bulb and work down. I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta 6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my eyes. I concluded that the light house's bottom diffuser was overly thick. BTW, I've an extra Omega B8 6x9. It is in very good condition. It has been completely dismantled. If interested let me know. Dan > RE: "C. Falise" <cfalise@tampabay.rr.com> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > BTW, I've an extra Omega B8 6x9. It is in very good condition. > It has been completely dismantled. If interested let me know. Dan When I had this sort of problem - maybe not exactly similar to yours - I found that I has left the 35mm condenser in place. That is the smaller lens in the uppermost position. Truly, dr bob. > I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta > 6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my > eyes. I concluded that the light house's bottom diffuser > was overly thick. With a conventional diffuser enlarger, the solution would be to move the light source closer to the diffuser -- more difference in path length between center and corners, and more aspect angle change, will both tend to increase the falloff on light to the diffuser that the center filtering on the diffuser is intended to correct. With a dichro head, however, I'd suspect that the wrong diffuser plate was present; if I correctly understand how dichro heads work, there shouldn't be any need for a center filter spot on a diffuser for a dichro head. SignatureThe challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions. -- Ansel Adams Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. > > I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta > > 6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > With a dichro head, however, I'd suspect that the wrong diffuser > plate was present; ... Wrong diffuser; that may be true. The diffuser located on the bottom of the mixing chamber is contoured and is overly thick in the midsection. Light fall off fell in a prints center. Dan >>> I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta >>>6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > bottom of the mixing chamber is contoured and is overly thick > in the midsection. Light fall off fell in a prints center. Dan Indeed -- that's what I'd expect in a cheap, single-diffusing enlarger like the Federal I had 30 years ago, but not what I'd think to find in a nice dichro. SignatureThe challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions. -- Ansel Adams Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. > >>> I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta > >>>6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > like the Federal I had 30 years ago, but not what I'd think to find in a > nice dichro. Beselers are _not_ "cheap" enlargers. Ansel Adams used one. And so do I. Want to compare prints, Donald? I have many made on both a 67 series and an MXT... >>Indeed -- that's what I'd expect in a cheap, single-diffusing enlarger >>like the Federal I had 30 years ago, but not what I'd think to find in a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I have many made on both a 67 series and an MXT... Tom, are you illiterate, or just a troll? Read again what I wrote (quoted from your quote, for your convenience: "not what I'd think to find in a nice dichro." IOW, reiterating that a center weighted diffuser isn't correct for a Beseler which, as you say, is *not* a cheap enlarger like the Federal I owned 30 years ago. I'm afraid I can't accept a challenge to compare prints -- my Omega D2V with Zone VI head (but unfortunately without the original condenser elements) is waiting in the corner behind me, but I don't have a work space set up yet. Ask again in six months, I should have something, though I doubt it'll match up to anything made by someone who has actually printed in the last twenty years -- the last time I made a print was in about 1981. SignatureThe challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions. -- Ansel Adams Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. > >>Indeed -- that's what I'd expect in a cheap, single-diffusing enlarger > >>like the Federal I had 30 years ago, but not what I'd think to find in a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Tom, are you illiterate, or just a troll? No. I read O.K. This thread is about _beselers_, and the OP doesn't have a dichro... If you weren't refering to beselers, I recant. > Read again what I wrote (quoted from your quote, for your convenience: > "not what I'd think to find in a nice dichro." > > IOW, reiterating that a center weighted diffuser isn't correct for a > Beseler which, as you say, is *not* a cheap enlarger like the Federal I > owned 30 years ago. As I said. > I'm afraid I can't accept a challenge to compare prints -- my Omega D2V > with Zone VI head (but unfortunately without the original condenser [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually printed in the last twenty years -- the last time I made a > print was in about 1981. Zone VI is a decent head. I'd expect good prints... >>>>Indeed -- that's what I'd expect in a cheap, single-diffusing enlarger >>>>like the Federal I had 30 years ago, but not what I'd think to find in a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > No. I read O.K. This thread is about _beselers_, > and the OP doesn't have a dichro... The OP doesn't, but Dan Quinn, to whom I was replying, mentioned the dichro in a Meopta he had, which had an incorrect diffuser: > I encountered reverse vignetting a few years ago with a Meopta > 6x6 dichro. Light fall off was centered. I could hardly believe my > eyes. I concluded that the light house's bottom diffuser > was overly thick. > If you weren't refering to beselers, I recant. At no point did I call a Beseler cheap. At no point did I associate dichro heads with cheap. I called my old Federal cheap -- and it was; I paid $1.25 at a yard sale, about 1972, and it was old then. >>I'm afraid I can't accept a challenge to compare prints -- my Omega D2V >>with Zone VI head (but unfortunately without the original condenser [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Zone VI is a decent head. I'd expect good prints... Yep, good equipment -- but I'm twenty years out of practice; no more time and money than I have to spend on photography, it might be more than six months before I can make "good" prints as compared to "adequate" prints. First, I need a place to work, then I need to spend a hunded bucks or more on paper, VC filters, and a little bit of additional equipment. Then I need to spend some time in the dark and make some prints. SignatureThe challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions. -- Ansel Adams Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. > If you weren't refering to beselers, I recant. > > > "not what I'd think to find in a nice dichro." He was speaking of the Meopta I purchased four years ago. I bought the 6x6 dichro because the 6x6 Meopta condenser I bought in 1960 at a local shop was such a good value and I think did a good job. I did think of a fix for the dichro. Using pencil or pen and trial and error, I could have increased the edge density of the bottom diffuser. They turn out an old world product; a number of castings and I think heavy sheet. Currently and AFAIK, they do not have a US distributer. Dan |
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