Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2004
Anybody try the defective Efke film from J&C?
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Nick Zentena - 15 Oct 2004 21:41 GMT I needed some film and noticed the defective stuff. I'm wondering if anybody has tried it yet? I've added two boxes to my order so I guess I'll know sooner or later.
Nick
Donald Qualls - 15 Oct 2004 22:37 GMT > I needed some film and noticed the defective stuff. I'm wondering > if anybody has tried it yet? I've added two boxes to my order so I guess > I'll know sooner or later. I'm not seeing this -- what format? Where is it on their site (doesn't seem to show in "odds and ends" where one might expect such)? Defective how, like the Classic sheet film that was cut oversize and wouldn't fit most holders, or something else?
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Nick Zentena - 15 Oct 2004 22:59 GMT > I'm not seeing this -- what format? Where is it on their site (doesn't > seem to show in "odds and ends" where one might expect such)? Defective > how, like the Classic sheet film that was cut oversize and wouldn't fit > most holders, or something else? It was right on the front page when I went to order. I think 5x7,8x10 and a couple of ULF. The 7x17 is affordable at those prices. I'm not really sure what's wrong with it but it's not a size issue. Something is wrong with some of the sheets. They mention it showing up mostly in sky areas.
http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=48
Figure if nothing else it's good to see how the film works for me. If it's okay I can get some of the good stuff later. If I don't like it's not that much of an issue.
Nick
Donald Qualls - 16 Oct 2004 02:28 GMT >>I'm not seeing this -- what format? Where is it on their site (doesn't >>seem to show in "odds and ends" where one might expect such)? Defective [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Nick Ah, inch sizes only. Won't fit my 9x12 cm film sheaths. Same problem I had with the slightly oversize 4x5 and 8x10 J&C Classic they had a while back.
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Nick Zentena - 16 Oct 2004 13:08 GMT > Ah, inch sizes only. Won't fit my 9x12 cm film sheaths. Same problem I > had with the slightly oversize 4x5 and 8x10 J&C Classic they had a while > back. The oversized stuff needs to be cut down to 4x5. Nothing stopping you from cutting a little extra and turning it into 9x12.
Nick
Donald Qualls - 16 Oct 2004 14:53 GMT >>Ah, inch sizes only. Won't fit my 9x12 cm film sheaths. Same problem I >>had with the slightly oversize 4x5 and 8x10 J&C Classic they had a while >>back. > > The oversized stuff needs to be cut down to 4x5. Nothing stopping you from > cutting a little extra and turning it into 9x12. Other than the fact that it's a little tricky to operate my cutter in a dark bag, no...
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Jim Phelps - 16 Oct 2004 15:59 GMT > Other than the fact that it's a little tricky to operate my cutter in a > dark bag, no... Fingers? You don't need no stinkin' fingers...:~)
David Nebenzahl - 16 Oct 2004 20:36 GMT On 10/16/2004 6:53 AM Donald Qualls spake thus:
>>>Ah, inch sizes only. Won't fit my 9x12 cm film sheaths. Same problem I >>>had with the slightly oversize 4x5 and 8x10 J&C Classic they had a while [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Other than the fact that it's a little tricky to operate my cutter in a > dark bag, no... Try a paper cutter in a dark room. I do it all the time. (You just need to set up some stops on the bed of the cutter.)
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Donald Qualls - 17 Oct 2004 00:19 GMT > On 10/16/2004 6:53 AM Donald Qualls spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Try a paper cutter in a dark room. I do it all the time. (You just need > to set up some stops on the bed of the cutter.) If I had a darkroom, I'd have done that already in order to be able to use faster films, like Tri-X or HP5+ (or even Classic 400), in my plate cameras. In my current house, it will be very difficult even to get the bathroom completely dark -- it has a large window that will be tricky to cover adequately. And the only closets with tight doors are full of shelves and very small.
I've long since figured out how to set up the stops on the cutter. I just need a place to work. Now that the big move is over, I'll have to check if there is a rental darkroom in the area, or one at a community college I can gain access to. Cutting film is one of the things that's hardest to do in a changing bag; everything else I do (short of printing) I've managed very well.
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Dan Quinn - 18 Oct 2004 10:01 GMT > -- it has a large window that will be tricky to > cover adequately. I fashioned a baffle sheet for a small window. The sheet is painted black on the window side and overlaps. Only a minute is needed to put in place or take it down. An inset sheet may do. A very temporary fix was a black fabric drape. Dan
John - 18 Oct 2004 11:39 GMT >> -- it has a large window that will be tricky to >> cover adequately. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >may do. > A very temporary fix was a black fabric drape. Dan I use foamcore. If you really want to ensue that no light makes it in put some aluminum foil in front of the foamcore and allow it a couple of inches past the edge of the foamcore.
Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org Please remove the "_" when replying via email
Donald Qualls - 18 Oct 2004 11:57 GMT >>-- it has a large window that will be tricky to >>cover adequately. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > may do. > A very temporary fix was a black fabric drape. Dan The window in this bathroom has curtains on rods, which at a minimum would have to be taken down for a drape to offer a good light seal, and since I don't own the house, I'm reluctant to put up anything that requires making (more) holes in the wallpaper and wall board. An insert is what I was thinking of, but there's little depth inside the frame (making a friction fit undependable) and such an insert makes ventilation a problem (1970s vintage house without exhaust fan). Still working on it, I'll eventually come up with something (a light trapped exhaust fan on an insert, held in place by a weight hung out of the upper sash, perhaps). I'd like to get it dark enough to change film (hence this digression, because that would let me cut film on a paper cutter, etc.), which is rather darker than the minimum needed for careful, quick enlarging.
Weather stripping on the door, and a throw (like a "door boa" that was popular in older houses during the 1970s "energy crisis" years) to cover the crack at the bottom. And then, of course, I need to find room for a 4x5 enlarger in a bathroom six feet wide including sinks and shower, and figure out where to put a tray line and still have room for a wash basin. I'll get there, but it'll be a couple months, at minimum...
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Dan Quinn - 08 Nov 2004 01:10 GMT > > I fashioned a baffle sheet for a small window. The sheet is > > painted black on the window side and overlaps. Only a minute [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ventilation a problem ... a light trapped > exhaust fan on an insert ... Ventilation is YOUR problem #1. That is unquestionably a hurdle some who would otherwise take up silver gelatin processing never clear. I did'nt know where that notion ever originated. I spent years using the standard acid process in labs where it never existed. I'm not sure I even heard of a ventilated darkroom untill I began reading posts on this NG. Now at home in a small bathroom darkroom I know why those who NEED an acid process need ventilation. How? I know because four years ago I waded back into darkroom work using the standard acid process. The fumes and oder took no time filling the house. I'm not very much bothered by the fumes and oder but I did happen upon non-acid processing. After considerable research I deceided it was safe to try. The darkroom and house are now more livable for my keeping all solutions neutral to alkaline. Any of the usuall processes can be done ventless if using non-acid chemistry. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised using the non-acid way of processing. Skip hurdle #1. Dan
> > Weather stripping on the door, and a throw > I need to find room for a 4x5 enlarger in a bathroom > six feet wide...a tray line ... The Wogster - 08 Nov 2004 14:22 GMT >>> I fashioned a baffle sheet for a small window. The sheet is >>>painted black on the window side and overlaps. Only a minute [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised using the non-acid > way of processing. Skip hurdle #1. Dan Ventilation in a bathroom is often very easy, the same fan used for removing the moisture from the mornings shower, should work equally well for removing the fumes from a photographic process. Simply turn on the fan, it will negative pressure the bathroom slightly, so all fumes should go out the vent, while fresh air is drawn in from the rest of the house.
You just need to make sure that the bathroom vent is on a separate switch from the light, easy to fix if it isn't.
W
happyheathen - 09 Nov 2004 06:53 GMT A bathroom ventilation fan is/can be great for moving air OUT of the room - the problem arises when you try to make the room light-tight - building codes usually require EITHER an openable window OR an exhaust fan - it yours has a window, it's easy to make a light-trap - but one opening can work either an inlet or an outlet - to get decent ventilation, you need both. Look up 'light trap' and see how you can make one or two work for you. I do not use acids, but I do have both a light trap on the the door and an exhaust fan. You could get a real, live chemical respirator, but those require constant replacement of filters.
What kind of intake/exhaust is in the bathroom?
An old-fashioned casement window (both upper and lower frames are moveable) would be perfect - use a fan on one for either intake or exhaust, the other to perform the opposite - a simple matter that can easily be reversed. If you have only an exhaust fan, you will need to come up with an intake - I cut a hole in the door of the room I use as a darkroom and fabricated a light trap to cover it. I (or somebody) will need to replace the door to restore the room for normal use.
The Wogster - 09 Nov 2004 17:37 GMT > A bathroom ventilation fan is/can be great for moving air OUT of the > room - the problem arises when you try to make the room light-tight - [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What kind of intake/exhaust is in the bathroom? It should be an exhaust fan, and most of them involve a metal or plastic pipe to vent outdoors, it's usually the last piece of piping involved with construction, because it can be routed around other pipes and things, without affecting the flow much. Often a couple of bends us sufficient to make it light tight. If it isn't and you can access the space above the ceiling, like in the attic then perfect. Simply cut the pipe, use an elbow to add a 90 degree bend, then add another so that the pipe is now headed the same direction, but shifted over, add two more elbows to shidt it back on course. Attach the elbows to each other, and paint the inside flat black. Attach to the original pipe, since light travels in a straight line, except through a lens, you will have solved the problem. You could also attach this to the outside, where the pipe exits the wall, or attach something similar to the fan itself.
Another option, get a piece of the filter material used in room air-conditioners, cut 2 or three pieces the size of the pipe, remove the fan and put a couple in, seperated by about 1 or 2 inches. Tie or tape a piece of string or wire to them first, with a loop in the end, so you can pull out the fan, and replace them, once in a while, as dust will clog your light "filter".
W
Dan Quinn - 09 Nov 2004 23:50 GMT RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca>
I think a lot of this NG's readers have had the words vent, ventilate, ventilation, ventilated, ventilating, and exhaust, exhausting, exhausted, etc, drilled into their heads to such an extent that a darkroom is now a forced air ventilated room with no lights. Save for the very hyper-sensitive few and for any who may engage in some exotic, quite toxic/oderiforous fume producing process, the number of air changes per minute can be ignored. I've the impression that some have the impression that darkroom work is dangerous; poisen gases, toxic solutions. Emulsion incorrporated hardeners are now the norm. If acid stop and fix are a bother the non-acid process will do just as well. If ventilation was not needed in the past it is even less needed today. Dan
Tom Phillips - 10 Nov 2004 05:32 GMT > RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > engage in some exotic, quite toxic/oderiforous fume producing > process, the number of air changes per minute can be ignored. But some of us maybe just like fresh air?
> I've the impression that some have the impression that > darkroom work is dangerous; poisen gases, toxic solutions. There are occasional toxic fumes in the average darkroom. Cleaners, for one. Also when mixing powered chems some chemical powder inevitably gets into the air. An adequate air flow is useful.
> Emulsion incorrporated hardeners are now the norm. If acid > stop and fix are a bother the non-acid process will do just > as well. If ventilation was not needed in the past it is > even less needed today. I've disagreed with you about this before and I disagree now. Exhaust systems (whether filtering the air in or out) also helps keep the darkroom temp and humidity even and cool in addition to helping keep the dust level down.
The Wogster - 10 Nov 2004 14:09 GMT > RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > as well. If ventilation was not needed in the past it is > even less needed today. Most if not all photographic chemicals are recommended, by the manufacturer to be used in a well ventilated area. It also depends on which process, C-41 and E-6 do not have acid free versions. C-41 has a step that contains formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is dangerous enough that if it gets spilled during cartage you need to call in a hazardous chemical cleanup specialist to clean it up and evacuate the building while waiting for that specialist to arrive. I know, I work for a courier, and to shut down a 150 truck depot to clean up a spill, means that is not something to play with.
Besides, it costs $25 - $100 to go from a non-vented darkroom to a well vented darkroom. Considering the cost of health care, risking your health for $100 is what I would consider not-smart.
W
m - 11 Nov 2004 19:26 GMT >RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >as well. If ventilation was not needed in the past it is >even less needed today. Dan nov1104 from Lloyd Erlick,
Everything you say is true.
Non-acid single-tray processing with 'plain' fixer is less work, easier to carry out, and capable of achieving rigourous standards of print (and negative) production. Compared to regular processing, it compromises nothing if proper procedure is followed; it reduces overall labor and reduces risk of print contamination by removing anything that touches the face of the print while it is wet.
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
The Wogster - 12 Nov 2004 15:28 GMT >>RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > contamination by removing anything that touches the > face of the print while it is wet. Just one problem, it would take me 100 years to use a 25Kg bag of sodium thiosulphate and I have nowhere to put it. Funny that nobody decided to make a commercial version: Uncle Ansel's Plain Old Fashioned Non-Hardening Fixer comes in a glass jar like one of those old fashioned preserves jars with a plastic scoop inside.
Now all we need is an acid-free colour process! Preferably one that uses Uncle Ansel's Plain Old Fashioned Fixer!
W
m - 13 Nov 2004 10:34 GMT >>>RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> >>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >W nov1304 from Lloyd Erlick,
What an idea! Surely Kodak could reverse its slide with this one! It's a natural product, comes in a jar ... maybe Orville Redenbacher would help promote it ...
I was surprised how quickly a hundred pounds of sodium thiosulfate went by. I've been using it at around fifty pounds a year - a pound a week ... yikes ...
regrds, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
The Wogster - 13 Nov 2004 16:36 GMT >>>>RE: The Wogster <wogsterca@yahoo.ca> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > this one! It's a natural product, comes in a jar ... > maybe Orville Redenbacher would help promote it ... Naw, Toronto actor Steve Smith's TV character would be a much better spokesman, along with Don Cherry's dog.....
> I was surprised how quickly a hundred pounds of sodium > thiosulfate went by. I've been using it at around fifty > pounds a year - a pound a week ... yikes ... I see from your telephone area code you are in Toronto, as am I, so where do you get it from? Do they sell smaller amounts. Feel free to reply off list. I don't do print processing, no darkroom, want to get back into film processing though, hmmm cafenol for developer and plain old fixer for fixing, sounds like a plan.
W
Lloyd Usenet-Erlick - 15 Nov 2004 14:40 GMT ...
>> I was surprised how quickly a hundred pounds of sodium >> thiosulfate went by. I've been using it at around fifty [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >W nov1504 from Lloyd Erlick,
I buy sodium thiosulfate anhydrous and sodium sulfite anhydrous from:
Signal Chemical 12 Carlaw St. Toronto 416-461-8181
They like cash. Phone ahead so they expect you. They might be weird on the phone, but it doesn't matter. The chemist there is named Stan and he is extremely sympathetic to photogs. He is also very competent, and will want to talk to anyone buying chemicals if he hasn't met them before. Their front door does not have the word 'Chemicals'. They will only sell full container/bag sizes. Hypo is a hundred pounds, sulfite is twenty five kilograms. The unit cost savings is well worth the effort, if one has the space to store things.
Also, in Toronto,
Nymoc chemical supply 24 McGee Street Toronto M4M 2K9 (416) 465-1929
This outfit is excellent, but not for chemicals that should be very cheap in large containers. For the more unusual, small quantity things like potassium iodide they are fine. They once sold me some bad glycin and made no fuss about it, and refunded cash. They're fine to deal with. Again, phone ahead, confirm prices and availability, and pay cash.
I've never dealt with either of these outfits by mail, but they both seem quite intelligent and most likely would not find using Fedex or UPS a difficulty.
regards, --le
m - 11 Nov 2004 19:14 GMT nov1104 from Lloyd Erlick,
>... The fumes and oder took no time filling the house. This is what gives photography a bad name!
> I'm not very much bothered by the fumes and oder but I did >happen upon non-acid processing. After considerable research >I deceided it was safe to try. The darkroom and house are >now more livable for my keeping all solutions neutral >to alkaline.
> Any of the usuall processes can be done ventless if using >non-acid chemistry. Ah, the little secret of non-acid processing.
I never provided ventilation for my cat's litter box, even though it was far worse in the stench department than even selenium toner. (The final solution was the dead cat solution. Don't worry, she almost made twenty one years...).
In fact, I applied the same method to 'ventilating' the darkroom, which is to dilute what little ammonia from my toner with plenty of fresh room air.
Eliminating acid eliminates smell culprit number one, sulfur dioxide, and number two, hydrogen sulfide.
I have found ammonia to be a distant third (I seem to have a particular thing about sulfur dioxide; it is the product of a hitherto undiscovered cult living in the wall behind the toilet...).
I have had a regular-smell darkroom and now a near-odorless one. I'm sure not going back.
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
> I think you'll be pleasantly surprised using the non-acid >way of processing. Skip hurdle #1. Dan [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> I need to find room for a 4x5 enlarger in a bathroom >> six feet wide...a tray line ...
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