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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / August 2004

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Disposal of developing chemicals at home

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Ian Hodge - 21 Aug 2004 19:04 GMT
I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any
comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be
some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink
really well.

Thanks

Ian
Gregory Blank - 21 Aug 2004 20:25 GMT
The kitchen sink is definately a bad idea, and depending on what
your throwing down there and where it goes you could be in violation
of local sewer codes or you could hurt your septic system

The EPA publishes a pamphlet on effluent disposal, Eastman Kodak
has/had a number of booklets on the subject. Ultimately your
local public works dept should be able to advise you.  

> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
> having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ian

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is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 21 Aug 2004 21:38 GMT
> having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
> down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea.

Unless your son likes to do very strange things with the drain plumbing
I can not see any harm.

Are you sure your son is not telepathically transmitting nightmares about
'Big Hairy Things That Come Out of the Drains at Night'?

I'd be more worried about the biologicals at the bottom of the sink
trap.  But then I wouldn't be much worried about those either.

In comparison with other hazards in the house B&W chemicals are close
to the bottom of the list.  The worst of them may be 'Pyro', and
that's just boiled acorn juice.

In my family it is the fastidious side that suffers from odd
undiagnosable health complaints and allergies.

Look at:

http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html

And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

Pieter Litchfield - 22 Aug 2004 00:37 GMT
At risk of inviting the wrath of the Truly Knowledgeable:

As a septic system owner and the operator of a B&W only darkroom, I worry
mostly about the silver in the fixer.  I'm not a big fan of putting heavy
metals out there.  I believe that the chemicals in used developer and stop
aren't much worse than the cleaners you put down the drain every day, but
since significant silver ends up in the fixer, it might be a long term
hazard to groundwater supplies as it accumulates.

There are a few ways to handle this problem:

(1) Buy a commercially available filter - see the Kodak web site.
Expensive, has a limited calendar life after first use, does a good job.
Probably not an economical solution for small volume home use.

(2) Put the exhausted fixer in a can with some steel wool.  Eventually the
silver will bond to the steel wool (or so I have been told) and can be
disposed of.  Of course, it you do this in your household trash, are you
really saving the environment?

(3) Get an electrostatic silver precipitator (try Porter's Camera).  This is
a little electric device that causes the silver to be deposited on an anode.
It is cheap and reduces the % concentration significantly.  However, not as
effective as a true filter (see 1 above).

(4)  Find a friendly local commercial photo or x-ray processor who will
dispose of the fixer in their output system.

> > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
> > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day.
Ian Grant - 21 Aug 2004 23:25 GMT
As your in the UK rather than our errant colonies, all the water boards are
interested in is the silver content. Actually it's the same in most parts of
the US too, I'm involved in silver recovery & photo waste discharges at
work.

The average amateur wil not cause any problems to the their local sewage
treatment works, and no-one offers a servive to collect and treat their
waste, the quantities are to small.

Yes fixer cam cause problems with a stainless steel kitchen sink but only if
not rinsed properly, it'll eat it away slowly :-)  Won't be any problem in
the U-bend tho !

> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
> having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ian
Michael Scarpitti - 22 Aug 2004 00:01 GMT
> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
> having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ian

Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.
A Concerned Contributer - 22 Aug 2004 03:08 GMT
You should try drinking them, or have you already?

> Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.
Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 06:42 GMT
> You should try drinking them, or have you already?
>
>>Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.

Here's one you can surely get away with drinking: Caffenol, a developer
made from only coffee and sodium carbonate.  Coffee certainly isn't
significantly toxic, and sodium carbonate will be converted to carbon
dioxide and table salt when it reacts with acid in your stomach.  Given
the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a
large dose.

For that matter, old-fashioned hypo fixer (sodium thiosulfate) is the
specific antidote for cyanide poisoning (though MacGyver improvisations
aside, it has to be injected to do any good, and within about fifteen
seconds of exposure to prussic acid or potassium/sodium cyanide), and
isn't particularly toxic until it picks up a load of dissolved silver.

Beyond that, if you're not specifically sensitive to metol, you could
probably drink a small amount of D-76 without harm, though I certainly
wouldn't recommend actually trying it -- but borax isn't very toxic,
sodium sulfite is a food additive, and hydroquinone and metol are both
present in sufficiently small quantity that you'd have to drink quite a
bit of D-76 to get harmful doses.  Given what it must taste like with
the amount of sulfite and borax in it, that's not very likely...

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Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
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Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Jean-David Beyer - 22 Aug 2004 13:05 GMT
Donald Qualls wrote (in part):

>> You should try drinking them, or have you already?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a
> large dose.

Some evidence seems to show that coffee (even decaf) increases the risk of
pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would
cyanide, but long-term  you may still wish to avoid it.

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Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 18:05 GMT
> Donald Qualls wrote (in part):
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> of pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would
> cyanide, but long-term  you may still wish to avoid it.

That's an interesting juxtaposition with recent research that suggests
drinking coffee may reduce the risk of Type II diabetes.  In any case,
drinking even Caffenol isn't recommended; my comment was simply that
developers need not be much more toxic than things we do routinely drink
(like whiskey).

Signature

I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
                                                    -- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages  http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages     http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dan Quinn - 22 Aug 2004 09:40 GMT
> ... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if
> I rinse the sink really well.

 I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts
will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will
encounter a few chemicals which as powders or concentrates
need very carefull handling.
 Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular.  Dan
Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 18:07 GMT
>>... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if
>>I rinse the sink really well.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> need very carefull handling.
>   Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular.  Dan

Not to mention farm-raised salmon, which the FDA is now recommending
pregnant women avoid and children eat no more than once a week.

Signature

I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
                                                    -- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages  http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages     http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dan Quinn - 23 Aug 2004 10:12 GMT
> >   I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts
> > will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Not to mention farm-raised salmon, which the FDA is now recommending
> pregnant women avoid and children eat no more than once a week.

 IIRC, Zero tuna for new-borns. Six fish, Tuna, Farm-raised Salmon,
and four others were recently put on a restricted consumption list.
 Mercury is the poisen and the biggest contributer is the coal
fired generating plant industry.
 I think my cat heard the news. The last can of her favorite Savory
Salmon was hardly touched.                                       Dan
John - 23 Aug 2004 05:04 GMT
>  Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular.  Dan

    Yummy ! Mercury au tartar!

Regards,

  John S. Douglas, Photographer -  http://www.darkroompro.com
             Please remove the "_" when replying via email
Phil Glaser - 22 Aug 2004 13:17 GMT
I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe
everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no
more harmful than other chemaicals you put down the sink, but in my
house we generally avoid the sorts of chemicals that your average
American household would use. I am probably more careful than most
folks here would think necessary, but there's no harm in being
cautious.

What worked for me both in terms of this concern and the way our space
is was to build a wooden sink that sits on top of removablel legs and
stands over the toilet. I set a drain in the middle of the sink and
have an inexpensive PVC drain tube that delivers the chemicals right
into the toilet. The only inconvenience is setting up and tearing down
the sink when not in use, but that's dictated by the size of our
living space.

I keep all chemicals stored under the bathroom sink with child-proof
locks and everything else above the toilet on a shelf we just
installed. I am fortunate in having a bathroom that already has a
built-in ventillation fan and a window. I wear a respirator because
the acid stop-bath and fixer make me dizzy, but I realize that this
symptom is idiosyncratic (and that the next time I get new stop and
fixer, I'll get citric acid fixer and either make or buy the
non-smelly fixer). Finally, nitrile gloves (available in a box of 100
from B&H for about $14) are a good idea. For the relatively harmless
chemicals it keeps off the smell; for things like selenium toner they
are essential.

--Phil

> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
> having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ian
Ian Hodge - 22 Aug 2004 18:23 GMT
> I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe
> everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>
>>Ian
Phil

Thanks for this. I was thinking of something similar but for the kitchen
sink with a tube going down the plug hole. That way I can wash prints
and dispose of used chemicals without them coming in contact with the
sink itself. The alternative is to work out of the kitchen and dispose
of the chemicals in a bucket (film developing) and then put them down
the drain outside. I just leave me not being able to wash prints, other
than outside as we have an outside tap. This makes darkroom work a fair
weather hobby...

Thanks

Ian
 
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