Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / August 2004
Disposal of developing chemicals at home
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Ian Hodge - 21 Aug 2004 19:04 GMT I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now, having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink really well.
Thanks
Ian
Gregory Blank - 21 Aug 2004 20:25 GMT The kitchen sink is definately a bad idea, and depending on what your throwing down there and where it goes you could be in violation of local sewer codes or you could hurt your septic system
The EPA publishes a pamphlet on effluent disposal, Eastman Kodak has/had a number of booklets on the subject. Ultimately your local public works dept should be able to advise you.
> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now, > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 21 Aug 2004 21:38 GMT > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Unless your son likes to do very strange things with the drain plumbing I can not see any harm.
Are you sure your son is not telepathically transmitting nightmares about 'Big Hairy Things That Come Out of the Drains at Night'?
I'd be more worried about the biologicals at the bottom of the sink trap. But then I wouldn't be much worried about those either.
In comparison with other hazards in the house B&W chemicals are close to the bottom of the list. The worst of them may be 'Pyro', and that's just boiled acorn juice.
In my family it is the fastidious side that suffers from odd undiagnosable health complaints and allergies.
Look at:
http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html
And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Pieter Litchfield - 22 Aug 2004 00:37 GMT At risk of inviting the wrath of the Truly Knowledgeable:
As a septic system owner and the operator of a B&W only darkroom, I worry mostly about the silver in the fixer. I'm not a big fan of putting heavy metals out there. I believe that the chemicals in used developer and stop aren't much worse than the cleaners you put down the drain every day, but since significant silver ends up in the fixer, it might be a long term hazard to groundwater supplies as it accumulates.
There are a few ways to handle this problem:
(1) Buy a commercially available filter - see the Kodak web site. Expensive, has a limited calendar life after first use, does a good job. Probably not an economical solution for small volume home use.
(2) Put the exhausted fixer in a can with some steel wool. Eventually the silver will bond to the steel wool (or so I have been told) and can be disposed of. Of course, it you do this in your household trash, are you really saving the environment?
(3) Get an electrostatic silver precipitator (try Porter's Camera). This is a little electric device that causes the silver to be deposited on an anode. It is cheap and reduces the % concentration significantly. However, not as effective as a true filter (see 1 above).
(4) Find a friendly local commercial photo or x-ray processor who will dispose of the fixer in their output system.
> > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc > > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day. Ian Grant - 21 Aug 2004 23:25 GMT As your in the UK rather than our errant colonies, all the water boards are interested in is the silver content. Actually it's the same in most parts of the US too, I'm involved in silver recovery & photo waste discharges at work.
The average amateur wil not cause any problems to the their local sewage treatment works, and no-one offers a servive to collect and treat their waste, the quantities are to small.
Yes fixer cam cause problems with a stainless steel kitchen sink but only if not rinsed properly, it'll eat it away slowly :-) Won't be any problem in the U-bend tho !
> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now, > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Michael Scarpitti - 22 Aug 2004 00:01 GMT > I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now, > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.
A Concerned Contributer - 22 Aug 2004 03:08 GMT You should try drinking them, or have you already?
> Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe. Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 06:42 GMT > You should try drinking them, or have you already? > >>Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe. Here's one you can surely get away with drinking: Caffenol, a developer made from only coffee and sodium carbonate. Coffee certainly isn't significantly toxic, and sodium carbonate will be converted to carbon dioxide and table salt when it reacts with acid in your stomach. Given the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a large dose.
For that matter, old-fashioned hypo fixer (sodium thiosulfate) is the specific antidote for cyanide poisoning (though MacGyver improvisations aside, it has to be injected to do any good, and within about fifteen seconds of exposure to prussic acid or potassium/sodium cyanide), and isn't particularly toxic until it picks up a load of dissolved silver.
Beyond that, if you're not specifically sensitive to metol, you could probably drink a small amount of D-76 without harm, though I certainly wouldn't recommend actually trying it -- but borax isn't very toxic, sodium sulfite is a food additive, and hydroquinone and metol are both present in sufficiently small quantity that you'd have to drink quite a bit of D-76 to get harmful doses. Given what it must taste like with the amount of sulfite and borax in it, that's not very likely...
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Jean-David Beyer - 22 Aug 2004 13:05 GMT Donald Qualls wrote (in part):
>> You should try drinking them, or have you already? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a > large dose. Some evidence seems to show that coffee (even decaf) increases the risk of pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would cyanide, but long-term you may still wish to avoid it.
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Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 18:05 GMT > Donald Qualls wrote (in part): > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would > cyanide, but long-term you may still wish to avoid it. That's an interesting juxtaposition with recent research that suggests drinking coffee may reduce the risk of Type II diabetes. In any case, drinking even Caffenol isn't recommended; my comment was simply that developers need not be much more toxic than things we do routinely drink (like whiskey).
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Dan Quinn - 22 Aug 2004 09:40 GMT > ... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if > I rinse the sink really well. I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will encounter a few chemicals which as powders or concentrates need very carefull handling. Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan
Donald Qualls - 22 Aug 2004 18:07 GMT >>... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if >>I rinse the sink really well. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > need very carefull handling. > Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan Not to mention farm-raised salmon, which the FDA is now recommending pregnant women avoid and children eat no more than once a week.
 Signature I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect.
Dan Quinn - 23 Aug 2004 10:12 GMT > > I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts > > will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not to mention farm-raised salmon, which the FDA is now recommending > pregnant women avoid and children eat no more than once a week. IIRC, Zero tuna for new-borns. Six fish, Tuna, Farm-raised Salmon, and four others were recently put on a restricted consumption list. Mercury is the poisen and the biggest contributer is the coal fired generating plant industry. I think my cat heard the news. The last can of her favorite Savory Salmon was hardly touched. Dan
John - 23 Aug 2004 05:04 GMT > Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan Yummy ! Mercury au tartar!
Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com Please remove the "_" when replying via email
Phil Glaser - 22 Aug 2004 13:17 GMT I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no more harmful than other chemaicals you put down the sink, but in my house we generally avoid the sorts of chemicals that your average American household would use. I am probably more careful than most folks here would think necessary, but there's no harm in being cautious.
What worked for me both in terms of this concern and the way our space is was to build a wooden sink that sits on top of removablel legs and stands over the toilet. I set a drain in the middle of the sink and have an inexpensive PVC drain tube that delivers the chemicals right into the toilet. The only inconvenience is setting up and tearing down the sink when not in use, but that's dictated by the size of our living space.
I keep all chemicals stored under the bathroom sink with child-proof locks and everything else above the toilet on a shelf we just installed. I am fortunate in having a bathroom that already has a built-in ventillation fan and a window. I wear a respirator because the acid stop-bath and fixer make me dizzy, but I realize that this symptom is idiosyncratic (and that the next time I get new stop and fixer, I'll get citric acid fixer and either make or buy the non-smelly fixer). Finally, nitrile gloves (available in a box of 100 from B&H for about $14) are a good idea. For the relatively harmless chemicals it keeps off the smell; for things like selenium toner they are essential.
--Phil
> I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now, > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Ian Hodge - 22 Aug 2004 18:23 GMT > I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe > everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >>Ian Phil
Thanks for this. I was thinking of something similar but for the kitchen sink with a tube going down the plug hole. That way I can wash prints and dispose of used chemicals without them coming in contact with the sink itself. The alternative is to work out of the kitchen and dispose of the chemicals in a bucket (film developing) and then put them down the drain outside. I just leave me not being able to wash prints, other than outside as we have an outside tap. This makes darkroom work a fair weather hobby...
Thanks
Ian
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