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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2004print retouching
This question is for film printers, not digital. When spotting prints, how do you remove the black marks on a print? > This question is for film printers, not digital. When spotting prints, how > do you remove the black marks on a print? Very carefully , with a razor blade or x-acto knife. If done correctly you won't have to apply spotone to the eched area.  SignatureBaltimore & DC Large Format User Website http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution > This question is for film printers, not digital. When spotting prints, how > do you remove the black marks on a print? You could bleach them with ferricyanide reducer if you have the skill. Same skill as spotting with dyes. I do not have it, so I keep my negatives as clean as possible. Black spots (wiggles, usually for me) usually were dust on the negative prior to exposure. Signature.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 09:35:00 up 4 days, 16:50, 4 users, load average: 4.24, 4.23, 4.12 > You could bleach them with ferricyanide reducer if you have the skill. > Same skill as spotting with dyes. I do not have it, so I keep my negatives > as clean as possible. Black spots (wiggles, usually for me) usually were > dust on the negative prior to exposure. I pretty much gave up on bleaching spots, although as you have sated it can be done. I also wonder if the bleaching compromises the image to some degree. SignatureBaltimore & DC Large Format User Website http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution >>You could bleach them with ferricyanide reducer if you have the skill. >>Same skill as spotting with dyes. I do not have it, so I keep my negatives [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I pretty much gave up on bleaching spots, although as you have sated it can be done. > I also wonder if the bleaching compromises the image to some degree. Since I am so clumsy on spotting and localized bleaching, I do not have the facts. But even Ansel Adams did some bleaching at times and even published a formula in the first edition of The Print for one for paper to clear the highlights. This was mainly to retain highlight detail: you print a little too dark, process and dry the print. Then use the bleach (cutting reducer) to lighten the highlights. Contained Ammonium ThioCyanate. That one (not Farmer's Reducer). So he thought it safe. I would think if you washed the print properly after bleaching and did not leave the print in the bleach too long, it would be OK. It only takes about 5 seconds in the bleach to work as he describes it. I tried it for 10 seconds once, and that was too long. Signature.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 03:15:00 up 5 days, 10:30, 3 users, load average: 4.07, 3.97, 4.01 > It only takes about 5 seconds in the bleach to work as he > describes it. I tried it for 10 seconds once, and that was too long. Bleach is homeopathic, like Rodinal, it seems to work better the more it is diluted. I try and aim for 2 1-minute bleachings to clear highlights - when done right it adds a sparkle to the print that can not be achieved any other way. See an original print of AA's Vernal Falls for an example. That said, overall bleaching is used only to clear highlights, not for removing black spots. If the black spot is due to a hole in the negative or dust on the negative when it was exposed then it is a good idea to retouch the negative: the black spot is always going to be there, so why not get rid of it once and for all. And bleaching and scraping are two fast roads to a ruined print. The usual approach is to turn the black spot into a white spot by applying spotone or opaque to the negative and then spotting the resulting white spot on the print. Many films can be retouched on the back side - much safer. Some even take a soft pencil as a retouching medium. It is also possible to scrape the black spot off the print with a scalpel - practice first. The aim is to remove the gelatin without removing the white layer behind the gelatin: it takes a very steady hand and a very light touch. You will then have to retouch the resulting scrape mark. If it was a 40x48" print then the risk is worth it to salvage the print. For an 8x10 I would not recommend it. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ "Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message > It is also possible to scrape the black spot off the print with a > scalpel - practice first. The aim is to remove the gelatin [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > print then the risk is worth it to salvage the print. For an > 8x10 I would not recommend it. I've done alot of prints even 8x10's this way and it is cetainly easier than matching the print color with photo dye. SignatureBaltimore & DC Large Format User Website http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution >>It only takes about 5 seconds in the bleach to work as he >>describes it. I tried it for 10 seconds once, and that was too long. > If the black spot is due to a hole in the negative or dust on > the negative when it was exposed then it is a good idea to > retouch the negative: the black spot is always going to be > there, so why not get rid of it once and for all. And bleaching > and scraping are two fast roads to a ruined print. Of course they are. I used to ruin prints all the time that way. Which is why, when I attempt retouching, I am far more interested in doing it with a replaceable print than in irreplaceable negative. Signature.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 07:55:00 up 6 days, 15:10, 3 users, load average: 4.11, 4.03, 4.01 > > If the black spot is due to a hole in the negative or dust on > > the negative when it was exposed then it is a good idea to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > why, when I attempt retouching, I am far more interested in doing it with > a replaceable print than in irreplaceable negative. OOOH I missed that comment, retouching negatives is a very baaaaad idea. Unless you have a retouching machine and alot of practice. I personally would never attempt it on my stuff. Too many ways to spot prints or etch the spot,....hell even doing the scan and retouching in PS for RC stuff far and above beats foobaring a good neg. SignatureBaltimore & DC Large Format User Website http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution > when I attempt retouching, I am far more interested in doing it with > a replaceable print than in irreplaceable negative. 1) The negative is not irreplaceable. It came from dust and to dust it shall return. 2) Soft graphite pencil on the back of a negative will not damage a negative. Neither will cocine red or opaque. Both are easily removable. 3) Once the spot has been removed one never again has to scrape or bleach the print. Important if you make more than one print. 4) If only one print is made then the image is not valuable to begin with and the issue is moot. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ > > when I attempt retouching, I am far more interested in doing it with > > a replaceable print than in irreplaceable negative. > > 1) The negative is not irreplaceable. It came from dust and to dust > it shall return. Easy there Nick your messing with religion. > 2) Soft graphite pencil on the back of a negative will not damage a > negative. Neither will cocine red or opaque. Both are easily > removable. Hum? Sounds almost reasonable. > 3) Once the spot has been removed one never again has to scrape or > bleach the print. Important if you make more than one print. Perhaps, although some spotting dyes change color over time. > 4) If only one print is made then the image is not valuable > to begin with and the issue is moot. Not true. SignatureBaltimore & DC Large Format User Website http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution >> This question is for film printers, not digital. When spotting prints, how >> do you remove the black marks on a print? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >as clean as possible. Black spots (wiggles, usually for me) usually were >dust on the negative prior to exposure. Ordinary iodine in alcohol is an excellent zilver bleach too. Fix it and wash it after the bleach. Gilbert |
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