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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2004Bergger Versus Forte
I can not remember whether it was in this forum that the question of whether these 200 speed films are the same was ask. Never the less I have done a side by side comparision, by my intial test it appears they are not. I shot both 120 rolls under identical conditions, controlled ambient daylight, metering from a centrally positioned grey card. Both films were processed using the Bergger suggested PMK time of 12 minutes, I processed both rolls in the same tank using 500ml of solution, dilution was 1+2+100 at 68F. I did add a pinch of amidol to increase the overall speed for both films. The end result, appears that Bergger produced both a denser and more highly stained roll of negatives. The difference is what I estimate to be approximately 20 %....for both stain and density. Perhaps as was stated by someone else the film is made at the same plant using Bergger's specification. The paper backing is the same, the film base appears the same, spools and paper tape the same. Anythoughts?  SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution > The paper backing is the same, the film base appears the same, > spools and paper tape the same. > > Anythoughts? "the same" ... "the same" ... "the same" So what's not the same? Batch, storage, and age. Dan > > The paper backing is the same, the film base appears the same, > > spools and paper tape the same. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So what's not the same? Batch, storage, and age. Dan Upon scanning the two seperate makers film the images are very very close in terms of grain structure and contrast. Visually looking at the film side by side Bergger has more stain, and perhaps a little more density. It could be the result of more silver or emulsion chemistry,....or just a thicker batch. I processed them in the same soup and the same tank together. Forte packaging says made in Hungry by Forte Photochemical Co Ltd. Bergger says made in E.U. If both are made in at one plant the packaging is purposefully misleading. The Forte film also exhibits in scanning more artifacts ( what appears as white dust or scratches in the emulsion) My feeling is that the films are somehow the same,.....but its very hard to prove conclusively. A mystery of sorts. SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution Who cares? If you get good pictures from it use it! I don't care if you get good pictures from mud off your boot, if it's good it is good. Why not spend your valuable time trying to determine what is good? Great artists never spent much time trying to discover the content of one another's canvas, paint or brushes. They studied the light, the content, the image. NOT THE CHEMISTRY. | > > The paper backing is the same, the film base appears the same, | > > spools and paper tape the same. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] | My feeling is that the films are somehow the same,.....but its very hard to | prove conclusively. A mystery of sorts. > Who cares? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > another's canvas, paint or brushes. They studied the light, the content, > the image. NOT THE CHEMISTRY. Sorry but I want to at least in part, say Bull sh.t ! Leonardo and many other artists have had a great sense of wonder and always questioned. Plus testing and darkroom analysis is a portion of what I do. I don't strive to be great artist, I am,..... by that I mean you have to love what you do and understand it to gain something which will continue to inspire you towards more. If you live for praise you"ll never recieve it or appreciate it from the mouths of others. The best praise I want is the satisfaction understanding how I made something I deem good or great. SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution > Who cares? > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > | prove conclusively. A mystery of sorts. > resolution>>>>> I'm going to ask you guys to split the difference here. There's a place for finding the best whole solution as well as a place for satisfaction with good, quality results. One can make fine prints from TMax, but I don't like the results myself. Is there something better? I only wish Acros was available in 8x10! Before the 20th C. many oil painters had to perfect their own pigments to their own specifications. It was craft and art, same as much of photography today. Just enjoy it. Collin "Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel" -- a meaningless, non-political sig. line meant to offend nobody. > I'm going to ask you guys to split the difference here. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > myself. > Is there something better? I only wish Acros was available in 8x10! Try Delta 100 in PMK, or D23. SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank <<<For best results expand this window at least 6" at 1152 x 768 resolution > Who cares? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > another's canvas, paint or brushes. They studied the light, the content, > the image. NOT THE CHEMISTRY. Well, well. Another Fred Picker (rest his soul)!. <snip |
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