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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / April 2004

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Film Base Permeability

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Ken Smith - 29 Apr 2004 20:52 GMT
Does film base need to receive chemistry when processing?
Could it conceivably remain flat and dry while chemicals act on the
emulsion?
Is it at all permeable, and does it need as adequate a washing as the
emulsion?

I ask because I'm experimenting with a method that developes two films
at once lengthwise in a long tray, base to base.

While I can be attentive to seperate the films during agitation in
chemistry, I'm wondering how concerned I should be about wash water
flow to the base in a final; no wash aid because of pyro, 15-20 min
wash.
Donald Qualls - 30 Apr 2004 03:57 GMT
> Does film base need to receive chemistry when processing?
> Could it conceivably remain flat and dry while chemicals act on the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> flow to the base in a final; no wash aid because of pyro, 15-20 min
> wash.

There shouldn't be any problem; spooling two films back to back has
been, at times and for some people, a standard method of getting two 120
films into a single 120 tank to obtain economy of chemical usage that
matches 35 mm.  I've even heard of it being done with 35 mm.

The film base has a gelatin "anti-curl" coating, but with most films
there's nothing coated onto or in that gelatin; antihalation layers are
under or in the emulsion, on the emulsion side (they have to be, in
order to protect from reflections and light piping inside the base), and
the base coloration is in the plastic material of the base itself, not
coated on.  Worst case, if you find a particular emulsion gives trouble
that way, you can rewash the film and will most likely remove any dyes
that might be present in the anti-curl coating.  However, be certain you
separate the films for drying; the anti-curl coating is thin, but more
than sufficient to glue two strips together, back to back, for eternity.

The possibility of fixer remaining in the anti-curl coat is a concern,
however, with or without wash aid; it would probably be preferable to
separate the films for washing.  Worthy of note here; if you use an
alkaline fixer like TF-4, washing can be as little as five minutes for
archival removal of fixer (though longer wash may still be preferred to
promote stain formation); that's not too long to spend periodically
separating the films for flow between, since you'll probably spend twice
that long just in the developer.

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                                                    -- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
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Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Ken Smith - 30 Apr 2004 19:22 GMT
> > Does film base need to receive chemistry when processing?
> > Could it conceivably remain flat and dry while chemicals act on the
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> separating the films for flow between, since you'll probably spend twice
> that long just in the developer.

 Excellent answer, Thanks.
Dan Quinn - 30 Apr 2004 23:00 GMT
> > Does film base need to receive chemistry when processing?
> > Could it conceivably remain flat and dry while chemicals act on the
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Donald Qualls

 They do glue well too! Now I know why. I never thought to ask and
in all my post reading I never once read an explanation.        Dan
 
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