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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / April 2004

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Stopping Down Enlarger Lens Focus Question Newbie

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SofaKing - 17 Apr 2004 20:10 GMT
I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week in
fact). When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
does focusing becoming less critical, ie. is it similar to a camera in that
I'm increasing depth of field therefore I can be out a bit? What are the
advantages to stopping down as opposed to using lower f-stop values (f5.6).
Am I losing contrast or sharpness in the print? Any grain issues? Does
leaving the light on that long change any of the characteristics of tone
distribution? Thx.
David Nebenzahl - 17 Apr 2004 21:07 GMT
On 4/17/2004 12:10 PM SofaKing spake thus:

> I'm a beginner. So go easy.

OK.

> I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week in fact). When I stop down my
> enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22) does focusing becoming less
> critical, ie. is it similar to a camera in that I'm increasing depth of
> field therefore I can be out a bit?

Yes; it increases the depth of field of the projected image in exactly the
same way as with a camera taking a picture. Smaller aperture = greater depth
of field = more latitude in misfocusing.

> What are the advantages to stopping down as opposed to using lower f-stop
> values (f5.6).

Just what was described above: increased overall sharpness.

> Am I losing contrast or sharpness in the print?

Nope.

> Any grain issues?

Only that what grain is visible will be more sharply in focus. That could be
good or bad, depending.

> Does leaving the light on that long change any of the characteristics of
> tone distribution?

Nope; you're apparently thinking of reciprocity failure characteristics. I
don't think this becomes a problem with photo paper until your exposures are
into the range of several minutes or more.

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I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
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SofaKing - 17 Apr 2004 21:51 GMT
So maybe other than being slower to print no real disadvantages mostly
advantages, good. I also like stopping down because it's a little bit more
forgiving when I want to increase or descrease exposure too. Thx.

> On 4/17/2004 12:10 PM SofaKing spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> don't think this becomes a problem with photo paper until your exposures are
> into the range of several minutes or more.
Francis A. Miniter - 18 Apr 2004 01:49 GMT
I always refocus after stopping down.  Ctein, I think it was, once wrote
in the journal Photo Techniques about focus shifts that occur after the
addition of filtration.  He stated that by adding yellow or magenta
filtration, you effectively alter the average wave length of the light
going through the enlarger, thus affecting the plane of sharpest focus
and causiong a slight focus shift to occur.  While I am not sure that he
is right, I do find that once I have added filtration and stopped down,
I do need to refocus to get the sharpest possible image.

Francis A. Miniter

>So maybe other than being slower to print no real disadvantages mostly
>advantages, good. I also like stopping down because it's a little bit more
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
>>into the range of several minutes or more.
Dan Quinn - 19 Apr 2004 00:03 GMT
> ...focus shifts that occur after the addition of filtration.

> ...by adding yellow or magenta filtration, you effectively alter
> the average wave length of the light ... thus affecting the plane
> of sharpest focus ...
>   I do find that once I have added filtration and stopped
> down, I do need to refocus to get the sharpest possible image.

 Or, stop down, add filtration, then refocus?
 It's been some time since this subject has come up. As
I recall stopping down was in itself the matter of concern.
 I think a case MAY be made for refocus due to one or the
other or both togeather; that is filtration and/or stopping
down.
 I use graded paper; no filters needed. I am concerned though
with focus shift on stopping down. Off hand I can't think of any
reason a smaller aperature would change the focal length of a lens.
I know I don't worry about it when a camera lens is involved.
 Perhaps a LARGE format user could shed some light. And some dark
for that matter.                                               Dan
jjs - 18 Apr 2004 00:23 GMT
> Just what was described above: increased overall sharpness.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Only that what grain is visible will be more sharply in focus. That could be
> good or bad, depending.

With my 35mm printing (on a focomat), stopping down to F22 decreases
sharpness and blurs grain.
David Nebenzahl - 18 Apr 2004 00:48 GMT
On 4/17/2004 4:23 PM jjs spake thus:

>> Just what was described above: increased overall sharpness.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> With my 35mm printing (on a focomat), stopping down to F22 decreases
> sharpness and blurs grain.

So you're encountering diffraction effects, right? Or focus shift, one.

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I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so
they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel.

- Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress

jjs - 18 Apr 2004 01:29 GMT
> On 4/17/2004 4:23 PM jjs spake thus:

> > With my 35mm printing (on a focomat), stopping down to F22 decreases
> > sharpness and blurs grain.
>
> So you're encountering diffraction effects, right? Or focus shift, one.

Yes, diffraction. I can watch the grain go soft through the focusing
scope. Refocusing has no effect. So I always print stopped down two from
wide open. If the exposure is too short to comfortably dodge and burn, I
use an ND filter.
Bruce - 18 Apr 2004 00:05 GMT
> When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
>does focusing becoming less critical,

No, all the image focus is in the negative, your enlarger will not make focus
where there is none.  Oft time a grain focuser is used to focus on the grain of
the negative which has nothing to do with image focus.  If you missed focus at
the camera stage you will not get it back of come close at the printing stage.
In the darkroom all you can do focuse the negative to sharpness and let the
image fall where it will.

> What are the advantages to stopping down as opposed to using lower f-stop
values (f5.6).

Every lens has a "sweet spot".  It is usually mid way between max and min
apature, maybe 5.6 or 8.  Enlarging lenses are flat focus lenses in that they
project a flat negative image onto a flat piece of paper, unlike camera
lenses..  All the DOF the image has in in the negative, closing the apature
will not increase image DOF.  It will lengthen exposure time which is a good
thing.  I personally like exposures of more than 30 seconds and if burning or
dodging is involved I will stop down as much as possible to insure enough time
for burning or dodging.

_________________
Ready, Fire, AIM.
Bruce
Brooklyn, N.Y.
David Nebenzahl - 18 Apr 2004 00:38 GMT
On 4/17/2004 4:05 PM Bruce spake thus:

>> When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
>>does focusing becoming less critical,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> In the darkroom all you can do focuse the negative to sharpness and let the
> image fall where it will.

You missed my point, or maybe I didn't state it clearly enough: I'm not
claiming that greater depth-of-field at the enlargement state can make up for
poor focus in the picture-taking stage. (That would be quite a feat, with
metaphysical and quantum-mechanics implications.) What I meant is that
stopping down an enlarging lens gives greater depth of field so far as the
negative being projected is concerned, and will allow more focusing errors to
still result in a sharp image of the negative (which may well be out of focus,
but that's another story).

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I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so
they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel.

- Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress

David Nebenzahl - 18 Apr 2004 00:46 GMT
On 4/17/2004 4:38 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

> On 4/17/2004 4:05 PM Bruce spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> claiming that greater depth-of-field at the enlargement state can make up for
> poor focus in the picture-taking stage.

Whoops: realized too late that you weren't replying to *my* reply. But the
point remains, since I don't believe the O.P. was asking whether stopping down
an enlarging lens could increase depth of field *in the original negative*.
(At least I hope they weren't.) In other words, when he asked "does focusing
become less critical?", he was referring to focusing the enlarging lens, not
the camera lens.

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I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so
they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel.

- Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress

CCDee - 18 Apr 2004 05:09 GMT
Yes I was referring to focussing the enlarger.

> On 4/17/2004 4:38 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> become less critical?", he was referring to focusing the enlarging lens, not
> the camera lens.
Randy Stewart - 18 Apr 2004 01:04 GMT
> I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week in
> fact).

Your questions are very good. Some of  the replies are not.

>When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
> does focusing becoming less critical, ie. is it similar to a camera in that
> I'm increasing depth of field therefore I can be out a bit?

Small aperature will increase depth of field, but not enough to overcome
poor initial focus.

What are the
> advantages to stopping down as opposed to using lower f-stop values (f5.6).

None, as to the resulting image.

> Am I losing contrast or sharpness in the print?

You are loosing sharpness because of optical defraction when you use your
lens much below f8.0.  This a matter of light itself, not lens design or
construction. The only way a close comparision would not clearly show this
for you would be if you were using a very low quality lens or were out of
focus.

> Any grain issues?

No.

>Does leaving the light on that long change any of the characteristics of
tone
> distribution?

No.  If you want longer print times, which can be useful, use a lower output
bulb or insert neutral density filtration above the negative, and [assuming
35mm printing with a 50mm lens] keep the lens aperature in the 5.6 - 8.0
range.
CCDee - 18 Apr 2004 05:14 GMT
F8. Got it. So my print times will be shortening as well. If I was printing
20 seconds at F22 is there a rule of thumb of calculating how much time
opening the aperture by three stops...um let me guess 20, 10, 5, 2.5 secs?
sound about right?

> > I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week
> in
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> 35mm printing with a 50mm lens] keep the lens aperature in the 5.6 - 8.0
> range.
David Nebenzahl - 18 Apr 2004 05:24 GMT
On 4/17/2004 9:14 PM CCDee spake thus:

> F8. Got it. So my print times will be shortening as well. If I was printing
> 20 seconds at F22 is there a rule of thumb of calculating how much time
> opening the aperture by three stops...um let me guess 20, 10, 5, 2.5 secs?
> sound about right?

Yes. It's an actual rule, not a rule of thumb.

Signature

I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so
they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel.

- Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress

Michael Scarpitti - 18 Apr 2004 04:12 GMT
> I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week in
> fact). When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> leaving the light on that long change any of the characteristics of tone
> distribution? Thx.

Use f/5,6 to f/ 8,0, no smaller. That is the optimum aperture for most
enlarging lenses.
CCDee - 18 Apr 2004 05:17 GMT
What are the visible artifacts of diffraction, what will I see or not see,
in my prints if I compare one printed at say f5.6 to one printed at f22? Why
does Rodenstock make lens that stop down that far then? Will anyone but me
notice?

> > I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this week in
> > fact). When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around 20secs. at f22)
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Use f/5,6 to f/ 8,0, no smaller. That is the optimum aperture for most
> enlarging lenses.
Michael Scarpitti - 18 Apr 2004 21:31 GMT
> What are the visible artifacts of diffraction, what will I see or not see,
> in my prints if I compare one printed at say f5.6 to one printed at f22? Why
> does Rodenstock make lens that stop down that far then? Will anyone but me
> notice?

If you have a high-mangification grain focusser, you can see which is
the optimum aperture by looking at a projected image and running the
aperture scale from wide open to minimum. If it is a good lens, the
optimum will be about 5,6 to 8,0 (for a 50mm).
Stefan Patric - 18 Apr 2004 05:41 GMT
> I'm a beginner. So go easy. I'm printing B&W (first prints done this
> week in fact). When I stop down my enlarger lens (exposure around
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> in the print? Any grain issues? Does leaving the light on that long
> change any of the characteristics of tone distribution? Thx.

Stopping down any lens reduces optical abberations, increases depth of
field, depth of focus, contrast and resolution, but only to a point.
After that point, resolution, contrast, and "sharpness" degrades due to
diffraction.  Most lenses, enlarger or taking, obtain the "best"
balance between the improvements gained by stopping down and the
degradation due to diffraction 2 to 3 stops down from wide open.

Most b&w papers perform best in the 10 to 60 second range.  With longer
exposures, they begin to suffer from reciprocity failure -- loose
speed, change contrast -- just like film does with exposures longer
than they were designed for.

To obtain critical focus, buy a grain magnifying focusers.  It needn't
be an expensive one.  (I use a 20 year old Patterson that I bought new
for about $20 and it works just fine.)  After composing and focusing
wide open, stop down to your printing aperture and check the focus to
be sure there has been no focus shift.  Most modern Plasmat type
enlarging lenses, that is, 6 elements in 4 groups, don't suffer from
this, but cheaper lenses with less elements are more apt to.

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Stefan Patric
tootek2@yahoo.com

 
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