I've still plans to move up to a 100 or 125 ISO film. The Pan F I've
been using is probably a finer grained and shaper film than I need.
Ilford's color response chart for Pan F is not all to my likeing and
I have not yet developed an eye for seeing that color response when
looking at a negative or print. Has anybody developed an eye for
evaluating a film's color response?
I'm speaking of the more usuall pan films to include Tech Pan.
I include Tech. Pan because it has extended red sensitivity.
As long as it's Pan, is that all that matters when it comes to
Pan films? Has anybody ever used color response as a criteria in
selecting a Pan film.?
Would anybody recommend a 100 - 125 ISO film based on a preference
for it's color rendition? Dan
> I've still plans to move up to a 100 or 125 ISO film. The Pan F I've
> been using is probably a finer grained and shaper film than I need.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Would anybody recommend a 100 - 125 ISO film based on a preference
> for it's color rendition? Dan
This is a toughy. There is a visible difference between most pan
films and T-Max, which has relatively flatter color response, i.e.,
less blue in comparison to other colors. Technical Pan has both
increased red sensitivity and somewhat extended red sensitivity, that
is, sensitive further toward I.R. This results in a peculiar rendition
of skin, not exactly washed out but sort of transparent looking. I can
be flattering for some people. I find T-Max looks like other films
when they are used with a No.8 (old K-2) filter. That is skys are a
bit darker and clouds more contrasty. Most of the variation in other
pan films is in the green region. The older senstiizing dyes tend to
produce a dip in response in the greens. This is less pronounced or
gone in some more modern pan films, for instance T-Max. In general, I
find that the overall curve shape has much more effect than spectral
response. Filters will swamp out the film spectral response. You
really have to make comparison tests of the same subject matter to see
the effects of the film, it can be quite subtle. I have gotten to I
can judge the tonal rendition of color in B&W to some extent but not
enough to predict what a particular film will look like.
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Dan Quinn - 05 Apr 2004 22:23 GMT
Dan Quinn wrote
> > I've still plans to move up to a 100 or 125 ISO film. The Pan F I've
> > been using is probably a finer grained and shaper film than I need.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> of skin, not exactly washed out but sort of transparent looking. It
> can be flattering for some people.
> I find T-Max looks like other films
> when they are used with a No.8 (old K-2) filter. That is skys are a
> bit darker and clouds more contrasty.
...T-Max looks like other films when they are used with a
No.8 ... filter.
You are saying that T-Max is less sensitive to blue than
other films. That could mean that the T-Max ISO for some uses
is higher than some other 100 ISO films. IIRC a No.8 filter
calls for a one stop exposure correction.
Suppose T-Max's blue ISO is 40 while the film's overall ISO is 100.
Suppose the other 100 ISO films average a 130 ISO in the blue and
overall a 100 ISO. Add a No.8 filter to those other films and the
usable ISO may drop to 80 or lower.
T-Max may be as fast or faster for my purposes than the 125 ISO
films. I'll only know for sure by testing three or four films. Dan
> Most of the variation in other
> pan films is in the green region. The older senstiizing dyes tend to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@ix.netcom.com
> As long as it's Pan, is that all that matters when it comes to
> Pan films? Has anybody ever used color response as a criteria in
> selecting a Pan film.?
Astronomers do all the time. Many interesting objects
shine in just a couple of wavelengths, and sensitivity
to the hydrogen alpha line (656 nm, red) or the oxygen
III line (500 nm, blue-green) is crucial.
Few black and white films have any useful sensitivity
to the hydrogen alpha line. Technical Pan is an exception.
Colour films make this even more complicated, since
the oxygen line falls right between the sensitivity
of the blue- and green-sensitive emulsion layers.
So emission nebulae are greenish-grey to our eyes
(which are most sensitive to green), but photograph as
pink, because the film is more sensitive to red than
to this particular shade of green...
Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte
I looked at the Ilford website just to be sure about the response of PanF+.
The response is generally pretty flat, but it falls off severely in the
violet and significantly in the far red, and so do your eyes - the film is
actually much flatter than the photopic response. A No. 8 filter would
probably make scenes look pretty normal. Ilford doesn't give much guidance
about filters, but, since the response is pretty normal for a panchromatic
filter, you can assume a filter factor of 2 for a start. If you need to
bring up the red response, a CC30R looks about right (or you can use an
orange or red filter if you want to cut the blue more). The falloff in the
violet is usually an advantage for outdoor work, since it reduces haze. If
you don't like it, a CC50B or maybe an 80A filter would probably even things
out. Of course, filters absorb light, and will reduce the already low
effective exposure index.
> I've still plans to move up to a 100 or 125 ISO film. The Pan F I've
> been using is probably a finer grained and shaper film than I need.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Would anybody recommend a 100 - 125 ISO film based on a preference
> for it's color rendition? Dan
Dan Quinn - 07 Apr 2004 10:31 GMT
> I looked at the Ilford website just to be sure about the response
> of PanF+. The response is generally pretty flat, but it falls
> off severely...
To be fair Pan F+ does do as well as many of the others.
Falls off severely... At the red end they all do and most
at about 630 to 640nm. Delta 3200, IIRC, will make 680nm and Tech
Pan will make the lower 700s.
Now about that blue end. Ilford tests using 2800K tungsten light.
You will see that all their films drop severely some where around
400nm. That is not the case with Agfa and Kodak, both of which do
not specify the source of light for testing.
BTW, have you ever used a Macbeth Color chart to test film? Dan
Norman Worth - 07 Apr 2004 18:01 GMT
Your points are well taken. The light source could account for the drop in
the blue-violet and reasonably good performance in the red. I have used the
Macbeth chart, and I recommend it. It takes a bit of learning to make use
of the results, but then it is extremely useful. The main point is that
PanF+ is a fairly usual panchromatic film. If someone is unhappy with the
response, he can use the usual filters to alter it.
> > I looked at the Ilford website just to be sure about the response
> > of PanF+. The response is generally pretty flat, but it falls
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> not specify the source of light for testing.
> BTW, have you ever used a Macbeth Color chart to test film? Dan
Dan Quinn - 08 Apr 2004 09:21 GMT
> I looked at the Ilford website just to be sure about the response of PanF+.
> The response is generally pretty flat, but it falls off severely in the
> violet and significantly in the far red, and so do your eyes - the film is
> actually much flatter than the photopic response.
> A No. 8 filter would
> probably make scenes look pretty normal. Ilford doesn't give much guidance
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> out. Of course, filters absorb light, and will reduce the already low
> effective exposure index.
All that talk of filters, one might as well be using indoor color
film outdoors. That's the point I was makeing some months ago when
I mentioned that B&W films are balanced for tungsten. Dan