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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2004

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color analyzer

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Mike - 25 Mar 2004 17:26 GMT
I've got an old color analzyer called a Colormate Marc I.  It seems to be
well-made and in functioning condition.

However I don't see the point.  I made my first RA-4 print last night
using Kodak Print Viewing Filters.  I then attempted to "program" the
color analyzer.  I did this by picking a medium gray point (the analyzer
has a fiber-optic probe), and zeroed the exposure and all 3 colors.

However whats the point unless you are printing another negative with the
nearly the exact hue of gray?  I suppose the color balance for gray
_might_ be the same, but in general, it seems hard to find a reference
point that is identifiable on all your negatives.
Nick Zentena - 25 Mar 2004 17:57 GMT
> I've got an old color analzyer called a Colormate Marc I.  It seems to be
> well-made and in functioning condition.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> _might_ be the same, but in general, it seems hard to find a reference
> point that is identifiable on all your negatives.  

 With my analyzer the only time you need a grey image is for programming.
Even then it's possible to use the settings from a perfect print to do the
programming. Once it's programmed you don't need to find a grey. You can set
any of the 100 channels to various things. I guess blue sky. Skin tone.
White dress. Or just an overall setting. Whatever you feel like. It's
possible to even set some of the channels for B&W.

     Having said that my analyzer isn't working at the moment and I haven't
had the incentive to get the probe fixed or to replace it. I know I will
sooner then later but that's becuase it'll speed things up not because I
think it'll improve things. I find doing test strips for colour printing
much more of a hassle then with B&W. OTOH I don't mind screwing around with
the colour settings. I find that interesting.

   Nick
Mike - 25 Mar 2004 18:27 GMT
>   With my analyzer the only time you need a grey image is for programming.
> Even then it's possible to use the settings from a perfect print to do the
> programming. Once it's programmed you don't need to find a grey. You can set
> any of the 100 channels to various things. I guess blue sky. Skin tone.
> White dress. Or just an overall setting. Whatever you feel like. It's
> possible to even set some of the channels for B&W.

Sounds like your color analyzer is more complex than mine.  I have a
selector switch for the 3 colors and for exposure.  There are 4
corresponding sets of knobs to adjust the needle deflection so that I can
"zero" the needle to the reference point.

Thus if I zero the needle for a particular point, say gray or a skin-tone,
unless I am really misunderstanding things I need to find a similar point
on my unknown negative.  The needle deflection then tells me how much
color to add or subtract for that particular point.

Unless I figure it out, I will likely use test prints and a notebook.  If
I stick with a couple films and the same paper, I would think I can get to
the point where a test strip isn't necessary for every print.
Jim Phelps - 26 Mar 2004 09:04 GMT
> I've got an old color analzyer called a Colormate Marc I.  It seems to be
> well-made and in functioning condition.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> _might_ be the same, but in general, it seems hard to find a reference
> point that is identifiable on all your negatives.

Mike,

  Your analyzer is a single channel one.  It'll do the job but it's less
convienent.

   What you would need to do is produce a standard negative.  That is a
negative (or positive) of the film or films you use that contain a 18% gray
card, standard color patches (like the MacBeth or from some other source
like an old Kodak Color Dataguide) and an average skin tone and they must be
properly exposed.  My wife holding a MacBeth Color Chart with an 18% gray
under her chin and a protracted gray scale from Kodak serves my purpose.
This film should be processed following your standard methods (same lab or
same chemistry/time/temp/etc. if you do it your self).

  Now, what you do is print this standard negative perfectly.  After you've
got it just right, record the setting of your filtration/exposure and don't
move anything.  Analyze the color you wish to match in an unknown print.
Zero the filterpack, swap the negatives around and analyze the unknown.
This process will work for this processing session and film type.  The next
time you need to go to work or you change film type (say from Kodak 160NC to
Fuji NPC), again, print the standard negative for the film type you're using
with the recorded filtration and exposure as a starting point and follow the
same process.  This will compensate for differences in technique or
paper/chemistry aging since the last session.  It may only be a unit or two
of filtration off, but that will apply to all your subsequent prints if you
don't reset your technique to zero.

  The 18% gray card comes in handy for two processes.  The first is if
you're using the same lighting condition for an entire roll (or rolls) of
film.  For example a bunch of studio work or TTL flash work in the same
ambient lighting.  If you follow the practice of shooting an 18% card in the
first frame under these conditions, then print your standard negative,
analyze the 18%, swap in that frame with the 18% and dial-in the necessary
filtration and exposure.  You don't need to move anything on the enlarge for
the remaining prints.  They will all print correctly with the same
filtration (or at least should).

  A second method for the 18% is when you have a difficult negative without
one of your standard colors.  Get your analyzer set for 18%, then swap in
your unknown negative.  Compose your image and place a diffuser under the
lens.  This will mix all the color and theoretically come to an 18% gray
value.  It works about 60% of the time, but will get you fairly close the
rest of the times.

  Single channel analyzers are not difficult to work with, they just
require different procedures.  Hope this info has been of help.

Jim
Mike - 26 Mar 2004 17:22 GMT
Thanks Jim, this really helps.  I think I'll be able to figure something
out now.  

I purchased an entire darkroom setup awhile back, and included was a
poster-sized color chart by MacBeth (multiple pictures of a girl, for
different filtrations, with the background containing many different color
patches). I previously thought it was good for nothing more than a cool,
retro wall decoration but I now understand what this was used for.  I
must lack the original picture as using the poster-sized chart would be
rather awkward to take a picture of.

I've got some other gizmos, such as this "Color Matrix" by
Colara/Colura/I_can_remember which is a thing with a grid of small holes
containing a different filter.  I think I would lay this over a peice of
paper to make a print...but not sure how to use it for a useful purpose.

Thanks,
Mike

>    Your analyzer is a single channel one.  It'll do the job but it's
>    less
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Jim Phelps - 26 Mar 2004 21:57 GMT
[Snip]

> I've got some other gizmos, such as this "Color Matrix" by
> Colara/Colura/I_can_remember which is a thing with a grid of small holes
> containing a different filter.  I think I would lay this over a peice of
> paper to make a print...but not sure how to use it for a useful purpose.

Mike,

  Those filter things worked pretty simple.  You laid them on a piece of
paper under a negative, used a diffuser under the lens, exposed and
processed.  The filters were laid out on a grid or had some pattern to their
layout, and you looked the square/circle that was the 'most gray'.  The
corresponding filter values would give you a starting filter pack.  There
usually were ND spots to help determine the exposure adjustment as well.
Not sure the specifics on yours, but in general, that's how they worked.

  Glad I could help.

Jim
 
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