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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / April 2004Semilith - Is it possible?
I've been experimenting with hydroqinone. One print exhibits what looks to my untrained eye to be lith characteristics. I'm not trying to produce a lith developer but one test brew gave what looked to be a lith look. The print on Arista Gr. 2 RC was developed eight minutes. Are partially lithed prints possible? Dan On 3/28/2004 2:08 PM Dan Quinn spake thus: > I've been experimenting with hydroqinone. One print exhibits what > looks to my untrained eye to be lith characteristics. I'm not trying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are partially lithed prints possible? By "lith" do you mean high-contrast?  Signature... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered to make his own case on his own show. - Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show on CNBC (3/17/04) > Dan Quinn spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > Are partially lithed prints possible? > By "lith" do you mean high-contrast? No I don't mean high contrast. Lith processed prints are full gray scale prints, give or take as with the usually processed print. I know little more than that a special developer is required and exposure of the paper may not be of the usual type. Also developing times can be very long. I searched this NG for, lith developer , and found some information. It may be a good method for contrast control. Dan On 3/28/2004 11:23 PM Dan Quinn spake thus: >> Dan Quinn spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Lith processed prints are full gray scale prints, give or take > as with the usually processed print. Wait a minute; I'm confused. (Not an unusual state of affairs.) If "lith" prints aren't high-contrast, then what are they? I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that the high-contrast look so popular in the late '60s/early '70s (for instance, on rock record album covers) was due to the use of Kodalith. Or are you talking about something else altogether here? Signature... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered to make his own case on his own show. - Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show on CNBC (3/17/04) RE: David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote > >> Dan Quinn spake thus: > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> > > >> > Are partially lithed prints possible? > >> By "lith" do you mean high-contrast? > > No I don't mean high contrast. > > Lith processed prints are full gray scale prints, give or take > > as with the usually processed print. Dan > Wait a minute, I'm confused; not an unusual state of affairs. > If "lith" prints aren't high-contrast, then what are they? After a one day crash course in Lith printing I've a more complete picture. Prints can be very high or very low contrast. IIRC, T. Rudman claims 6 or 7 grades are possible; I'd suppose from ONE grade of paper. > I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that the high-contrast > look so popular in the late '60s/early '70s (for instance, on > rock record album covers) was due to the use of Kodalith. I read that Kodak did produce untill the early 80s a lith paper; ??LP. Perhapes someone remembers. > Or are you talking about something else altogether here? Lith is a developer which perhaps has no other agent but Hydroquinone. That agent is the only one which will lith and then only with proper compounding. Last night I took my step tablet out of the enlarger and proceeded to make a full scale portrait print on Arista GR 2 RC. From S. Tablet tests I expected a little warm full scale print. I twice expose, by turning the paper 180*, 5x7 for these tests. Lithing set in about 8 - 10 minutes after immersion and the paper pulled at 15 minutes. As was indicated by sources the high contrast image was the least exposed. The tone is warm black to faint tan in the highlights. The overall color is brown. All in all very nice. Dan > I've been experimenting with hydroqinone. One print exhibits what > looks to my untrained eye to be lith characteristics. I'm not trying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are partially lithed prints possible? Dan I had an experience like that (I think) when I first played with ascorbic acid. It was a mixture of hydroquinone and ascorbic acid with pretty strong alkali. The original print is shown on www.unblinkineye.com in my article on Vitamin C developers. I came out a warm tone print with some lith-type characteristics which I thought might be due to infectious development. Take a look and see if it's similar to your's. I think the answer to your question is yes, becaues a good part of the lith look is from the developer. As you know, Tech Pan can be a very high contrast film suitable for line copy or a low contrast film suitable for landscapes. Pat Gainer > > I've been experimenting with hydroqinone. One print exhibits what > > looks to my untrained eye to be lith characteristics. I'm not trying > > to produce a lith developer but one test brew gave what looked > > to be a lith look. The print on Arista Gr. 2 RC was > > developed eight minutes. Dan > I had an experience like that (I think) when I first played with > ascorbic acid. It was a mixture of hydroquinone and ascorbic acid with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > might be due to infectious development. Take a look and see if it's > similar to your's. From what I've read and photos seen so far I'd say a lith print CAN look like a normall print. As you mentioned at Unblinking Eye, the development is unusuall. I could'nt tell by looking if the HC developer produced a lith print. It's of higher contrast and more lightly printed but looks normall, which is possible with the lith process. BTW, your pointer is not live but UBEye is up and running. Dan > I think the answer to your question is yes, becaues a good part of the > lith look is from the developer. As you know, Tech Pan can be a very > high contrast film suitable for line copy or a low contrast film > suitable for landscapes. > > Pat Gainer Some hydroquinone developers will give reddish-brown tones and somewhat enhanced contrast similar to lith processing without going to the full lith extremes. Gevaert G.262 and Dassonville D-3 (Ansco 115) come to mind. They do not work with all papers, and results vary from paper to paper. The technique is similar to lith - very full exposure and long development in dilute developer. The more dilute the developer, the warmer the tone, within limits. Catecol based paper developers are said to give warm brown tones also. > I've been experimenting with hydroqinone. One print exhibits what > looks to my untrained eye to be lith characteristics. I'm not trying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are partially lithed prints possible? Dan > Some hydroquinone developers will give reddish-brown tones and somewhat > enhanced contrast similar to lith processing without going to the full lith [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > Are partially lithed prints possible? Dan I couldn't tell you the chemical aspect of it, but it would be better to see an example of your print before answering. BTW, that unblinkingeye link didn't work...is it me or is it down? As for lith prints, there are so many ways to do it, and so many results, that its hard to tell. My technique (which can be seen at www.alexisneel.com) isn't what Tim Rudman et al might describe as lith, and it certainly wasn't done in the manner or developer dilution he/they would reccomend. BUt they are liths none the less and have a quality all their own. Personally I go for about 3 to 5 stops more exposure (but it depends on the neg) but only 2:45 to 4:30 minutes development. Lots of contrast, if need be, but again, depends on original neg. Some are of a different scale, and don't have that rish range of "normal" prints, but still have a contrast range none the less. Post an example if you could to get a better answer. Alexis www.alexisneel.com PS RC paper, I would think, wouldn't work near as well, if at all, as fiber will. Plus you have more control over things during the process with fiber. > > Some hydroquinone developers will give reddish-brown tones and somewhat > > enhanced contrast similar to lith processing without going to the full lith [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to see an example of your print before answering. BTW, that > unblinkingeye link didn't work...is it me or is it down? You probably just copied it from my post. It left out the g. I see you put it in when you wrote your post. Try www.unblinkingeye.com. I have not tried to duplicate my accident. It couls have been partly due to the paper, which was old Seagull FB. > As for lith prints, there are so many ways to do it, and so many > results, that its hard to tell. My technique (which can be seen at [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > fiber will. Plus you have more control over things during the process > with fiber. > I couldn't tell you the chemical aspect of it... It's as simple as 1, 2, 3. First, hydroquinone reduces exposed silver halide and itself is oxidized. Second, that oxidized form, which is a stronger reducer, reduces more silver halide and itself is oxidized. Third, that oxidized form reacts with hydroquinone and produces TWO of first oxidized forms. Only hydroqinone will do what is described above. Very important is the production of that very strong reducing agent from hydroqinone's first oxidation. It's oxidation will double it's own amount when it interacts with additional in solution hydroquinone. > As for lith prints, there are so many ways to do it, and so many > results, that its hard to tell. My technique (which can be seen at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > range of "normal" prints, but still have a contrast range none the > less. It's lith processing you are doing, no doubt. Yours is at grade 5, 6, and 7 so to speak. > Post an example if you could to get a better answer. I may set up for that this fall. My most recent lith print looks like a grade 2 negative printed on grade 2 paper. Ho-Hum the arty lith crowd would say. And that's just what it was, a grade 2, give or take, negative on grade 2 RC paper. But, from reading it could have been a grade 4 printed on grade 4 paper and ended up about the same. Dan |
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