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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2004

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Ethol's, UFG, LPD, Acufine, and Diafine

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TheYankeeSnapper - 25 Mar 2004 01:49 GMT
BKA's - Ethol's, UFG, LPD, Acufine and Diafine seem to be the only developers
available in cans, are there any others? I want to stockpile film and paper
developers and besides the ones I mentioned, we're left with Rodinal, HC-110,
and PMK as the "longevity champs". How many others are there that wiil last to
eternity, or at least as long as my frozen Ektalure and Elite?

Regards.

Bob McCarthy
theyankeesnapper@aol.com
Nicholas O. Lindan - 25 Mar 2004 02:43 GMT
> BKA's - Ethol's, UFG, LPD, Acufine and Diafine seem to be the only developers
> available in cans, are there any others? I want to stockpile film and paper
> developers and besides the ones I mentioned, we're left with Rodinal, HC-110,
> and PMK as the "longevity champs". How many others are there that wiil last to
> eternity, or at least as long as my frozen Ektalure and Elite?

Prithy, why are you stockpiling B&W developer till eternity?  Taking a slow
capsule to Mars and the Beyond?  The world ends next week so eternity will be
up toot-sweet?

The raw materials for B&W chemistry will be available as long as
civilization lasts and longer: some potash, some limestone, some
sulfur, salt, oak galls, rose hips and a jug of wine and away you go.
Actually just coffee and salt will do: develop in coffee overnight, fix in
salt water for a month or so.

To pull yourself up by the chemical bootstraps after civilization has
crashed the first steps are:

http://www.psigate.ac.uk/newsite/reference/plambeck/chem1/p01261.htm
http://www.psigate.ac.uk/newsite/reference/plambeck/chem1/p01262.htm

Which come from the really amazing site:

http://www.psigate.ac.uk/newsite/

"PSIgate is a free service that offers access to high quality
Web resources in the physical sciences; there are currently
10489 resources in astronomy, chemistry, earth sciences,
materials sciences, physics, and science history and policy [More]"

On more serious notes:

FWIW Ethol's cans do not last to eternity - five years, maybe.  One month once.

Kodak cans have lasted lots longer, though of course, some didn't, and they
aren't.

HC-110 is good for maybe 15 years.  Rodinal for 50?  PMK, if the components
are stored separately in sealed containers, 100 - 200 years: it's the
pyrogallol that's the unstable one.

The longest lived solution will be no solution: store dry powdered chemical
components in small sealed glass containers.  

Will you be using this developer during your, er, journey?

If you aren't: Open each jar, cover the opening with Parafilm and screw the
top back on.  If it is not in a glass jar then put it into a glass jar:
Wide mouth Boston rounds with Poly lined caps.

If you are: divide the chemicals before storing in hermetically sealed
containers.  Make sure the chemicals have no moisture in them - drive it
out with heat or with a desiccant.  For packaging: remember those old
injection vials made entirely from blown glass -- the nurse filed a groove
in the neck and snapped the top off -- Well do that on a larger scale,
a dose of Metol, HQ, Ascorbic acid ... in each vial.  One used to be
able to buy the vial 'blanks' that only needed a bit of work with a propane
torch to seal them.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

TheYankeeSnapper - 25 Mar 2004 14:39 GMT
>Prithy, why are you stockpiling B&W developer till eternity?  Taking a slow
>capsule to Mars and the Beyond?  The world ends next week so eternity will be
>up toot-sweet?

///////////////////////////////////////

I'm interested in canned developers and chemicals for a use upstate New York.
The cabin that we go to is in a remote area of the Catskills without
electricity, and storage in such a place is of greater than normal concern.
Canned film developers stored for long periods of time under these conditions
seems to me like the way to go. Gettig back to my original question, "are there
other manufacturer's also canning their products?"

What is this groups opinion regarding BKA's Ethol products?

Regards.

Bob McCarthy
theyankeesnapper@aol.com
John Stockdale - 27 Mar 2004 21:46 GMT
> What is this groups opinion regarding BKA's Ethol products?

I have used only Acufine from this company, and for years it was my
developer of choice for moderately pushing Tri-X. I was very happy
with it.

I still have several one-quart cans unopened that were bought 30 years
ago and you can have them if you pay for the postage from Australia.
Then you could test them and let us know if they last at least 30
years.
Andrew Price - 27 Mar 2004 23:30 GMT
>I have used only Acufine from this company, and for years it was my
>developer of choice for moderately pushing Tri-X. I was very happy
>with it.
>
>I still have several one-quart cans unopened that were bought 30 years
>ago

What did you replace it with, then?
John Stockdale - 29 Mar 2004 14:24 GMT
> >I have used only Acufine from this company, and for years it was my
> >developer of choice for moderately pushing Tri-X. I was very happy
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> What did you replace it with, then?

When I stopped taking pictures of indoor sports, I changed my style of
photography and for years stopped trying to get more speed out of
films.  In fact, I prefer to rate Tri-X at 200 now.  If I do need to
push a bit, I use Microphen.
Mike Schuler - 27 Mar 2004 22:27 GMT
Strangely, I was just visiting Archie McFee in Seattle and they had
cases of glass ampules, ready to be filled and sealed, for $0.25
apiece. I haven't seen these in years...

> > BKA's - Ethol's, UFG, LPD, Acufine and Diafine seem to be the only developers
> > available in cans, are there any others? I want to stockpile film and paper
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> able to buy the vial 'blanks' that only needed a bit of work with a propane
> torch to seal them.
John - 27 Mar 2004 05:30 GMT
>BKA's - Ethol's, UFG, LPD, Acufine and Diafine seem to be the only developers
>available in cans, are there any others? I want to stockpile film and paper
>developers and besides the ones I mentioned, we're left with Rodinal, HC-110,
>and PMK as the "longevity champs". How many others are there that wiil last to
>eternity, or at least as long as my frozen Ektalure and Elite?

    The answer will cost you 4 sheets of that precious Ektalure !

    Actually I'd throw T-Max and Ilford's DDX developers in as
well. Very good and stable stuff.

    Lastly, if I _really_ wanted something to last the next 50
years, I'd package dry chems for D-23 in FoodSaver (Nylon) bags. Mylar
would be even better I think.

Regards,

  John S. Douglas, Photographer -  http://www.darkroompro.com
             Please remove the "_" when replying via email
David Nebenzahl - 27 Mar 2004 19:44 GMT
On 3/26/2004 8:30 PM John spake thus:

>     Lastly, if I _really_ wanted something to last the next 50
> years, I'd package dry chems for D-23 in FoodSaver (Nylon) bags. Mylar
> would be even better I think.

Gawd, you survivalists are all too much: "OK, honey, I think we got
everything: 55 gal. drum of cooking oil, 5 sides of beef, pallet of canned
chili, 1200 gal. of water ... and D-23, Dektol and fixer in Mylar. Close the
hatch!"

Signature

... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered
to make his own case on his own show.

- Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show
on CNBC (3/17/04)

John - 28 Mar 2004 06:14 GMT
> 5 sides of beef, pallet of canned chili

    Canned chili ?
David Nebenzahl - 28 Mar 2004 07:18 GMT
On 3/27/2004 9:14 PM John spake thus:

>> 5 sides of beef, pallet of canned chili
>
>     Canned chili ?

I dunno; what *do* you survivalists stock your underground pantry with?

Me, I'd go with just about anything, but NO TWO-BUCK CHUCK!

Signature

... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered
to make his own case on his own show.

- Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show
on CNBC (3/17/04)

John - 29 Mar 2004 06:53 GMT
>I dunno; what *do* you survivalists stock your underground pantry with?

    Shoot ! I don't even have a basement ! But there are a couple
head of cattle out back. Want a pic ?

Regards,

  John S. Douglas, Photographer -  http://www.darkroompro.com
             Please remove the "_" when replying via email
David Nebenzahl - 29 Mar 2004 07:42 GMT
On 3/28/2004 9:53 PM John spake thus:

>>I dunno; what *do* you survivalists stock your underground pantry with?
>
>     Shoot ! I don't even have a basement ! But there are a couple
> head of cattle out back. Want a pic ?

Sure, if it's a purty one. Not too many cattle hereabouts (Oakland). But some
folks in West Oakland keep chickens.

Signature

... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered
to make his own case on his own show.

- Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show
on CNBC (3/17/04)

 
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