a question of B/W film

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AArDvarK - 16 Mar 2004 09:33 GMT

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex

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Martin Jangowski - 16 Mar 2004 09:40 GMT

> There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
> which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
> in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
> something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
> know if something close is still made? I know some
> of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

One thing is sure, this wasn't a Pan film... these are red-sensitive.
There were several orthochromatic films available, today
there are only one or two left... one from Maco and
the Ilford Ortho in sheet film sizes.

Martin

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Collin Brendemuehl - 16 Mar 2004 20:46 GMT

> There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
> which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Alex

http://www.focuscamera.com stocks "Kodak Contrast Process Ortho 4x5-25 "
Perhaps this would be useful?

Collin

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Patrick Gainer - 17 Mar 2004 00:25 GMT

> > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
> > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Collin

About 60 years ago when I was taking pictures with my Bullet Brownie,
Verichrome film was orthochromatic. Not Verichrome Pan. That came much
later.

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Peter Irwin - 17 Mar 2004 03:08 GMT

> There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
> which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
> in the open and undeveloped under red light,

> Alex

People have already mentioned orthochromatic and colour-blind
films, a few of which are still available, but it is also possible
to watch panchromatic film develop under a dim light (such as an
ordinary paper safelight) if it is first desensitised by a bath
in a desensitising dye such as pinacryptol green or pinacryptol
yellow. Photographer's formulary lists pinacryptol yellow on
their website, if you want to try it you should read up about it
first.

I believe that the time and temperature system is nearly always
better than developing by inspection, but watching a film develop
is an interesting experience.

If you just want to see a film develop, probably the easiest thing
to do is to shoot Eastman 5302 Fine Grain release positive in camera
(exposure index about 6) and develop under your regular paper
safelight. 5302 is colour-blind (blue and violet sensitive only)
so the pictures will look rather old-fashioned, but you will get the
experience of seeing film develop.

Peter.

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pirwin@ktb.net

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earthlink - 17 Mar 2004 19:19 GMT

Kodak made a number of camera films that were not sensitive to red light.
As far as I know, none are still available. Although not a camera film,
Fine Grain Release Positive was available in 8X10 sheets a few months ago,
and it may still be available. Until fairly recently, Kodak made Commercial
6127 and 4127 (blue sensitive), Contrast Process Ortho 4154, Professional
Copy Film 4125 (orthochromatic), Tri-X Ortho 4163, and Professional line
Copy 6573 (orthochromatic). All these were sheet films. Kodalith Ortho was
also available in sheets and 35mm.

> There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
> which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Alex

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Terry Heick - 03 Apr 2004 04:22 GMT

I guess that is why they used a red lens to read the frame number directly
on the film backing paper of the older ortho films? So should we block this
lens using modern pan films in an old camera? I just acquired an older
medium format with this window and I thought it might be necessary to block
it. Thanks, Terry

> Kodak made a number of camera films that were not sensitive to red light.
> As far as I know, none are still available. Although not a camera film,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> >
> > Alex

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Peter Irwin - 03 Apr 2004 05:06 GMT

> I guess that is why they used a red lens to read the frame number directly
> on the film backing paper of the older ortho films? So should we block this
> lens using modern pan films in an old camera? I just acquired an older
> medium format with this window and I thought it might be necessary to block
> it. Thanks, Terry

It isn't really a problem, at least not most of the time. Backing
paper blocks light from reaching the film very effectively. The red
colour of the window will cut down the amount of light entering the
camera by about three stops, a yellow-green filter would probably
make more sense for panchomatic films since it would be visibly
lighter for the same amount of protection, but this was rarely done.
It is more important that the design of the camera prevents light
leaking between the red window and the pressure plate. Many cameras
from the 1930s onwards had a sliding door covering the red window
so that it only needed to be open when advancing film.

I have a Kodak 66 II, made in the late 1950s after the switch
to Verichome Pan, which has a red window with no cover and I've
seen no sign at all of light leaking in.

Peter.

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pirwin@ktb.net
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