Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2004
Does it matter what colour I paint my darkroom?
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SofaKing - 10 Mar 2004 04:15 GMT Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
jjs - 10 Mar 2004 04:29 GMT > Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. So drape your darkroom with white plastic in the wet area, and black in the dry.
SofaKing - 10 Mar 2004 04:45 GMT ....Ebony and Ivory....together in perfect harmony...side by side by my piano keyboard...zzzzzzzz.
> > Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. > > So drape your darkroom with white plastic in the wet area, and black in the dry. drhowarddrfinedrhoward - 10 Mar 2004 05:14 GMT I'm building my first darkroom now and this is what I've gathered off the 'net. At least this makes the most sense to me.
If your darkroom is "light tight" then it doesn't matter what color it is since it can't reflect light if there is none. However it might be safer to keep the area within about four feet of your enlarger black to avoid reflections off the wall from your enlarger onto the paper.
DanKPhoto - 10 Mar 2004 05:42 GMT Yes, this makes sense. But the rest probably not too dark...the reflected safelight will help in navigating the semi-darkness.
<< If your darkroom is "light tight" then it doesn't matter what color it is since it can't reflect light if there is none. However it might be safer to keep the area within about four feet of your enlarger black to avoid reflections off the wall from your enlarger onto the paper
Chris Ellinger - 10 Mar 2004 13:32 GMT Flat black on the wall and ceiling near the enlarger -- white everywhere else.
Chris Ellinger Ann Arbor, MI
tm - 10 Mar 2004 15:29 GMT My darkroom, situated in my garage away from all walls, measures 5 x 6 feet and the walls are particle board sheets with 2 x 4 wood framing. Since I love the smell of wood, I did not paint any of the wood and I've not experienced any adverse affect while printing with my enlarger. Thus, I do not see any reason to paint a darkroom black unless there is a distinct circumstance that someone else might have a problem with in their own environment.
> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. Nicholas O. Lindan - 10 Mar 2004 16:44 GMT > I did not paint any of the wood and I've not > experienced any adverse affect while printing > with my enlarger. Thus, I do not see any reason > to paint a darkroom black ... There are several sources of 'stray light' (light you don't want) when enlarging:
1) Light leaking from the enlarger
a) negative carrier b) lamp housing c) lens board or lens turret
2) Light leaking (not quite the right word) from the lens
a) internal lens reflections (not a big deal w/ coating) b) Imaging of inside of the lit (by the negative) portions of the lens bellows/cone and negative carrier. If possible twist your head and take a look up the lens - scary.
3) Light reflected from the paper, illuminating the room, especially the ceiling and hence the paper. If you have a white ceiling take a look up when enlarging.
The result is that the whole area around the enlarger is well illuminated with white light - if your darkroom was this light you _know_ your paper would fog.
The effect is variable:
The effect from (1) is proportional to the exposure time and negative density - the amount of fogging light is constant and the longer the exposure time the more fog.
The effects of (2) may change with head height as more of the light falls on the enlarger column or room walls.
But generally the fog from (2) and (3) are constant for all negatives and magnifications: they are proportional to the amount of light-seconds to expose the paper which, if paper sensitivity is fixed, is generally constant.
In sum, just about all the fogging light hitting the paper first bounces off the ceiling and walls. Painting them black will reduce the amount of fog. (3) light from the enlarging paper, and often the greatest contributor, can only be mitigated by painting walls and ceilings black. Reducing (2b) requires a bit of flocking/painting inside the enlarger.
Now, how much does this matter?
If you are making murals you will find it is almost impossible to get clear highlight. The light leaking from the enlarger, that has no effect in a 20 second exposure, fogs mightily in a 10 minute exposure. Also the entire darkroom becomes the enlarger's cubicle and would need to be painted black to keep fog down.
Can you see it? Do you care? Only one way to find out:
1) put a clear negative in the carrier, place two overlapping coins/opaque things in the center of the paper.
2) make a middle grey exposure
3) place a coin on the center of the clear film in the carrier. The coin should not cover more than 1/3 the negative area.
4) Remove one of the coins in (1)
5) Make another exposure equal to (2)
6) Develop
7) Any difference between the overlapping coins is the highlight effect. Any difference in the shadow of the removed coin is the mid-tone effect.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
tm - 10 Mar 2004 18:32 GMT During the last eight months, I have made 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 prints of my father's approximately 500 b&w negatives of me and my siblings from childhood to adult years in my garage darkroom with the aforementioned unpainted wood walls and have obtained perfect images with absolutely no discernible problems from any source anywhere within that enclosed environment.
> > I did not paint any of the wood and I've not > > experienced any adverse affect while printing [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > highlight effect. Any difference in the shadow of > the removed coin is the mid-tone effect. Mike King - 10 Mar 2004 18:26 GMT For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white (the yellow of the Saunders easels) it reflects almost as much light as a white wall but less of the (bad) blue part of the spectrum. And black of course, but just around the enlarger.
-- darkroommike
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> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. Nicholas O. Lindan - 10 Mar 2004 20:30 GMT > For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white > (safer) ... black ... around the enlarger. Good point. The darkrooms at the Cleveland Museums are painted yellow, NTITOI.
And one could certainly get away with red for the walls around the enlarger. Make life a bit brighter. Here in Cleveland we need all the bright we can get.
I have a client with dark blue darkroom walls, it's the corporate color, and combines the blue with deep red safelights. With the white lights off the walls go to dead black. As it is like working in a cave and so they need to have lots and lots of safelights to make up for it, but then they make safelights. I suspect the corporate blue reflects UV very well, but it is polite not to press the issue.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Mike King - 11 Mar 2004 14:43 GMT For me, anyway, red is a depressing color, yellow is much more cheerful. But either is brighter and safer than black and less fogging than white walls.
-- darkroommike
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> > For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white > > (safer) ... black ... around the enlarger. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ Morton Klotz - 11 Mar 2004 18:07 GMT It seems to me that if you have a good safelight then white walls will only reflect that color, so there is no need to paint the walls yellow. Yellow looks good though--My living room is yellow.
>For me, anyway, red is a depressing color, yellow is much more cheerful. >But either is brighter and safer than black and less fogging than white >walls. Nicholas O. Lindan - 11 Mar 2004 18:24 GMT > It seems to me that if you have a good safelight then white walls will > only reflect that color, so there is no need to paint the walls > yellow. You want a color that reflects yellow and red, that don't fog, and absorbs blue and green, that do fog.
The absorbency of blue and green is the important thing.
> Yellow looks good though--My living room is yellow. No smiley faces on it, though? :)
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
PSsquare - 10 Mar 2004 22:47 GMT Took a darkroom course in a school darkroom that was all black. It was just a little short of terrible when you tried to navigate around other studends with the safelight the only source. I agree that white except around the enlarger where black works well.
PSsquare
> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. ll.clark@verizon.net - 11 Mar 2004 02:09 GMT >Took a darkroom course in a school darkroom that was all black. It was >just a little short of terrible when you tried to navigate around other >studends with the safelight the only source. I agree that white except >around the enlarger where black works well. It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place them around the enlarger area when you're working with the enlarger of an evening.
- ----------------------------------------------------------- les clark / edgewater, nj / usa -----------------------------------------------------------
PSsquare - 11 Mar 2004 13:59 GMT > It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest > of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place > them around the enlarger area when you're working with the enlarger of an > evening. Right. Actually, I taped some mat black paper myself. Works fine. You could also use dark matt board just as well.
PSsquare
jjs - 11 Mar 2004 14:37 GMT Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? Would 12% gray be a good compromise? What kind of shoes go well with Dektol?
Gary Beasley - 11 Mar 2004 15:58 GMT >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? Would 12% gray be a >good compromise? What kind of shoes go well with Dektol? Actually wearing a bright white shirt while in front of the enlarger can bounce a lot of light back at the print paper. A dark work apron helps but can be annoying to wear. Best to rip the shirt off and bellow like the Hulk, then calmly go on printing.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 11 Mar 2004 18:12 GMT "Gary Beasley" <beasleyglb@mindspringnospam.com>
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:37:42 -0600, john@xyzzy.stafford.net (jjs) > >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom?
> Actually wearing a bright white shirt while in front of the enlarger > can bounce a lot of light back at the print paper. And those hands, face (esp. whites of eyes) ... eyeglasses obviously verboten.
Take a page from the theater:
Black pants, no belt Black long sleeved turtleneck Black socks and shoes Black cloth gloves Black stocking over the head Black ski mask over that.
Woman (and some men) have it a bit easier with a black Danskin.
Yeah, one can take this black thing to the extreme. But sometimes, like when making murals, look out.
Fogging of unknown origin, most common to least common causes (?):
Old paper Paper safe, box, bag: forgot to close Paper safe, box, bag: leaks light Safelight too close Wrong safelight Clear Plexiglas does _not_ make a good lensboard The color of the walls
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
ll.clark@verizon.net - 11 Mar 2004 21:07 GMT >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? I should think puce might be nice.
- ----------------------------------------------------------- les clark / edgewater, nj / usa -----------------------------------------------------------
Pieter Litchfield - 11 Mar 2004 23:42 GMT I used a flat medium (18%??) gray paint on mine. I don't think color is too important, but I would avoid shiny finishes and use flat black panels around the enlarger to minimize reflections.
> >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > les clark / edgewater, nj / usa > ----------------------------------------------------------- Mike King - 11 Mar 2004 14:46 GMT Black foam core panels? Lighter and easy to move.
-- darkroommike
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> > It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest > > of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > PSsquare Matt Clara - 11 Mar 2004 21:13 GMT > Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx. It's interesting that you should say that. I lined the outside walls of my darkroom with black plastic, and there's no dust in my dark room to speak of. I can leave negs laying out for months, and they're dust free when I go to print them. I wondered why that was, when leaving negs for a week in the room outside my darkroom results in very dusty negs. Of course, I calked the whole room, and that can't hurt. Hope I don't pass out from lack of oxygen some day!
 Signature Regards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com
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