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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2004

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Does it matter what colour I paint my darkroom?

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SofaKing - 10 Mar 2004 04:15 GMT
Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
jjs - 10 Mar 2004 04:29 GMT
> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.

So drape your darkroom with white plastic in the wet area, and black in the dry.
SofaKing - 10 Mar 2004 04:45 GMT
....Ebony and Ivory....together in perfect harmony...side by side by my
piano keyboard...zzzzzzzz.

> > Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> > know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
>
> So drape your darkroom with white plastic in the wet area, and black in the dry.
drhowarddrfinedrhoward - 10 Mar 2004 05:14 GMT
I'm building my first darkroom now and this is what I've gathered off the
'net.  At least this makes the most sense to me.

If your darkroom is "light tight" then it doesn't matter what color it is
since it can't reflect light if there is none.  However it might be safer to
keep the area within about four feet of your enlarger black to avoid
reflections off the wall from your enlarger onto the paper.
DanKPhoto - 10 Mar 2004 05:42 GMT
Yes, this makes sense.  But the rest probably not too dark...the reflected
safelight will help in navigating the semi-darkness.  

<< If your darkroom is "light tight" then it doesn't matter what color it is
since it can't reflect light if there is none.  However it might be safer to
keep the area within about four feet of your enlarger black to avoid
reflections off the wall from your enlarger onto the paper
Chris Ellinger - 10 Mar 2004 13:32 GMT
Flat black on the wall and ceiling near the enlarger -- white
everywhere else.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
tm - 10 Mar 2004 15:29 GMT
My darkroom, situated in my garage away from all walls, measures 5 x 6 feet
and the walls are particle board sheets with 2 x 4 wood framing. Since I
love the smell of wood, I did not paint any of the wood and I've not
experienced any adverse affect while printing with my enlarger. Thus, I do
not see any reason to paint a darkroom black unless there is a distinct
circumstance that someone else might have a problem with in their own
environment.

> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 10 Mar 2004 16:44 GMT
> I did not paint any of the wood and I've not
> experienced any adverse affect while printing
> with my enlarger. Thus, I do not see any reason
> to paint a darkroom black ...

There are several sources of 'stray light' (light you don't
want) when enlarging:

1) Light leaking from the enlarger

   a) negative carrier
   b) lamp housing
   c) lens board or lens turret

2) Light leaking (not quite the right word) from the lens

   a) internal lens reflections (not a big deal w/ coating)
   b) Imaging of inside of the lit (by the negative) portions
      of the lens bellows/cone and negative carrier.  If possible
      twist your head and take a look up the lens - scary.

3) Light reflected from the paper, illuminating the room,
  especially the ceiling and hence the paper.  If you have
  a white ceiling take a look up when enlarging.

The result is that the whole area around the enlarger is well
illuminated with white light - if your darkroom was this light
you _know_ your paper would fog.

The effect is variable:

The effect from (1) is proportional to the exposure time and
negative density - the amount of fogging light is constant and
the longer the exposure time the more fog.

The effects of (2) may change with head height as more of the
light falls on the enlarger column or room walls.

But generally the fog from (2) and (3) are constant for all
negatives and magnifications: they are proportional to the
amount of light-seconds to expose the paper which, if
paper sensitivity is fixed, is generally constant.

In sum, just about all the fogging light hitting the paper
first bounces off the ceiling and walls.  Painting them
black will reduce the amount of fog.  (3) light from the
enlarging paper, and often the greatest contributor, can
only be mitigated by painting walls and ceilings black.
Reducing (2b) requires a bit of flocking/painting inside the
enlarger.

Now, how much does this matter?

If you are making murals you will find it is almost
impossible to get clear highlight.  The light leaking
from the enlarger, that has no effect in a 20 second
exposure, fogs mightily in a 10 minute exposure.  Also
the entire darkroom becomes the enlarger's cubicle and
would need to be painted black to keep fog down.

Can you see it?  Do you care?  Only one way to find out:

1) put a clear negative in the carrier, place
  two overlapping coins/opaque things in the
  center of the paper.

2) make a middle grey exposure

3) place a coin on the center of the clear film in
  the carrier.  The coin should not cover more
  than 1/3 the negative area.

4) Remove one of the coins in (1)

5) Make another exposure equal to (2)

6) Develop

7) Any difference between the overlapping coins is the
  highlight effect.  Any difference in the shadow of
  the removed coin is the mid-tone effect.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

tm - 10 Mar 2004 18:32 GMT
During the last eight months, I have made 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 prints of my
father's approximately 500 b&w negatives of me and my siblings from
childhood to adult years in my garage darkroom with the aforementioned
unpainted wood walls and have obtained perfect images with absolutely no
discernible problems from any source anywhere within that enclosed
environment.

> > I did not paint any of the wood and I've not
> > experienced any adverse affect while printing
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>    highlight effect.  Any difference in the shadow of
>    the removed coin is the mid-tone effect.
Mike King - 10 Mar 2004 18:26 GMT
For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white (the
yellow of the Saunders easels) it reflects almost as much light as a white
wall but less of the (bad) blue part of the spectrum.  And black of course,
but just around the enlarger.

--
darkroommike

----------
> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 10 Mar 2004 20:30 GMT
> For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white
> (safer) ... black ... around the enlarger.

Good point.  The darkrooms at the Cleveland Museums are painted yellow,
NTITOI.

And one could certainly get away with red for the walls around the
enlarger.  Make life a bit brighter.  Here in Cleveland we need
all the bright we can get.

I have a client with dark blue darkroom walls, it's the corporate
color, and combines the blue with deep red safelights.  With the
white lights off the walls go to dead black.  As it is like working
in a cave and so they need to have lots and lots of safelights to
make up for it, but then they make safelights.  I suspect the
corporate blue reflects UV very well, but it is polite not to
press the issue.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Mike King - 11 Mar 2004 14:43 GMT
For me, anyway, red is a depressing color, yellow is much more cheerful.
But either is brighter and safer than black and less fogging than white
walls.

--
darkroommike

----------

> > For a black and white darkroom I would suggest yellow rather than white
> > (safer) ... black ... around the enlarger.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
> psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Morton Klotz - 11 Mar 2004 18:07 GMT
It seems to me that if you have a good safelight then white walls will
only reflect that color, so there is no need to paint the walls
yellow. Yellow looks good though--My living room is yellow.

>For me, anyway, red is a depressing color, yellow is much more cheerful.
>But either is brighter and safer than black and less fogging than white
>walls.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 11 Mar 2004 18:24 GMT
> It seems to me that if you have a good safelight then white walls will
> only reflect that color, so there is no need to paint the walls
> yellow.

You want a color that reflects yellow and red, that don't fog, and absorbs
blue and green, that do fog.

The absorbency of blue and green is the important thing.

> Yellow looks good though--My living room is yellow.

No smiley faces on it, though? :)

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

PSsquare - 10 Mar 2004 22:47 GMT
Took a darkroom course in a school darkroom that was all black. It was just
a little short of terrible when you tried to navigate around other studends
with the safelight the only source.  I agree that white except around the
enlarger where black works well.

PSsquare

> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.
ll.clark@verizon.net - 11 Mar 2004 02:09 GMT
>Took a darkroom course in a school darkroom that was all black. It was
>just a little short of terrible when you tried to navigate around other
>studends with the safelight the only source.  I agree that white except
>around the enlarger where black works well.

It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest
of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place
them around the  enlarger area when you're working with the enlarger of an
evening.

-
-----------------------------------------------------------
les clark / edgewater, nj / usa
-----------------------------------------------------------
PSsquare - 11 Mar 2004 13:59 GMT
> It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest
> of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place
> them around the  enlarger area when you're working with the enlarger of an
> evening.

Right. Actually, I taped some mat black paper myself. Works fine. You could
also use dark matt board just as well.

PSsquare
jjs - 11 Mar 2004 14:37 GMT
Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? Would 12% gray be a
good compromise? What kind of shoes go well with Dektol?
Gary Beasley - 11 Mar 2004 15:58 GMT
>Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom? Would 12% gray be a
>good compromise? What kind of shoes go well with Dektol?

Actually wearing a bright white shirt while in front of the enlarger
can bounce a lot of light back at the print paper. A dark work apron
helps but can be annoying to wear. Best to rip the shirt off and
bellow like the Hulk, then calmly go on printing.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 11 Mar 2004 18:12 GMT
"Gary Beasley" <beasleyglb@mindspringnospam.com>
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:37:42 -0600, john@xyzzy.stafford.net (jjs)
> >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom?

> Actually wearing a bright white shirt while in front of the enlarger
> can bounce a lot of light back at the print paper.

And those hands, face (esp. whites of eyes) ... eyeglasses
obviously verboten.

Take a page from the theater:

Black pants, no belt
Black long sleeved turtleneck
Black socks and shoes
Black cloth gloves
Black stocking over the head
Black ski mask over that.

Woman (and some men) have it a bit easier with
a black Danskin.

Yeah, one can take this black thing to the extreme.  But sometimes,
like when making murals, look out.

Fogging of unknown origin, most common to least common causes (?):

Old paper
Paper safe, box, bag: forgot to close
Paper safe, box, bag: leaks light
Safelight too close
Wrong safelight
Clear Plexiglas does _not_ make a good lensboard
The color of the walls

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

ll.clark@verizon.net - 11 Mar 2004 21:07 GMT
>Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom?

I should think puce might be nice.

-
-----------------------------------------------------------
les clark / edgewater, nj / usa
-----------------------------------------------------------
Pieter Litchfield - 11 Mar 2004 23:42 GMT
I used a flat medium (18%??) gray paint on mine.  I don't think color is too
important, but I would avoid shiny finishes and use flat black panels around
the enlarger to minimize reflections.

> >Should I wear white or black clothes in the darkroom?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> les clark / edgewater, nj / usa
> -----------------------------------------------------------
Mike King - 11 Mar 2004 14:46 GMT
Black foam core panels?  Lighter and easy to move.

--
darkroommike

----------

> > It's not necessary to paint the wall black around the enlarger if the rest
> > of the room is painted white: just paint some panels flat black and place
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> PSsquare
Matt Clara - 11 Mar 2004 21:13 GMT
> Seriously. Any thoughts on this. So far it's different shades of gray. I
> know Ctein drapes his in black plastic claiming it sucks up the dust. Thx.

It's interesting that you should say that.  I lined the outside walls of my
darkroom with black plastic, and there's no dust in my dark room to speak
of.  I can leave negs laying out for months, and they're dust free when I go
to print them.  I wondered why that was, when leaving negs for a week in the
room outside my darkroom results in very dusty negs.
Of course, I calked the whole room, and that can't hurt.  Hope I don't pass
out from lack of oxygen some day!

Signature

Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

 
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