OTC sodium metaborate

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Lew - 19 Feb 2004 21:51 GMT

Are there any inexpensive sources for sodium metaborate?
-Lew

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Jorge Omar - 19 Feb 2004 22:00 GMT

If you can get borax and sodium hydroxide, I've posted a detailled
'recipe' of how to obtain it.

Do a google groups search for

Borax+hydroxide=metaborate (my way)

Jorge

"Lew" <lew@clsystems.com> wrote in news:QJ-dnfid6r-yrajdRWPC-
w@speakeasy.net:

> Are there any inexpensive sources for sodium metaborate?
> -Lew

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Lew - 19 Feb 2004 23:28 GMT

Jorge:
Google doesn't help. How about a URL?
-Lew

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Jorge Omar - 20 Feb 2004 01:49 GMT

"Lew" <lew@clsystems.com> wrote in news:E5adnfMFnK8p26jdRWPC-
w@speakeasy.net:

> Jorge:
> Google doesn't help. How about a URL?
> -Lew

Ok, here is it - you may have to copy and paste it:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
&group=rec.photo.darkroom&selm=Xns941CBE595F25Ejorgeomariegcombr%
40130.133.1.4

Jorge

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Nick Zentena - 19 Feb 2004 22:04 GMT

> Are there any inexpensive sources for sodium metaborate?

I don't know what you mean by inexpensive but you could try:

http://www.colba.net/~fotochem/

Buy five pounds and it's not alot more then one pound.

Nick

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Dan Quinn - 20 Feb 2004 10:15 GMT

> Are there any inexpensive sources for sodium metaborate?
> -Lew

Tri Ess Sciences, Artcraft Chemicals, and Photographer's Formulary
are three sources of that inexpensive chemical.
Compounding it from borax and sodium hydroxide is less sure. Lye
has a great affinity for water vapor. Unless you've a lot of clogged
drains needing treatment, a large portion of it will likely turn
into a moisture laden block before it is ever used.
I've no use for lye in and of itself. Jorge has contended with the
moisture problem and may clue you in further. Dan

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Dennis O'Connor - 20 Feb 2004 12:44 GMT

Dan, I dislike contradicting anyone, but having made dozens of batches of
developer starting from a dollop of a 10% sodium hydroxide stock solution
and a scoop of 20 Mule Team Borax, I have not had the slightest problem in
getting good negatives... The aesthetic quality of the images may be
another issue, but the negatives are consistent...

On the issue of left over lye granules, there aren't any... Go to the
Unblinking Eye article and follow the directions for mixing the entire
contents of a freshly opened can of lye, from the supermarket or the
hardware store, with the appropriate amount of water and you have just under
a gallon of a 10% solution... This solution is not strong enough to be a
major hazard, and should you get a drop of it on your skin, or on the
counter... Just rinse it off..

For those who are adverse to basic chemistry, then the chemical sources you
cite are just fine...
denny

"Dan Quinn" <dan.c.quinn@att.net> wrote in message > Compounding it from
borax and sodium hydroxide is less sure. Lye

> has a great affinity for water vapor. Unless you've a lot of clogged
> drains needing treatment, a large portion of it will likely turn
> into a moisture laden block before it is ever used.

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Dan Quinn - 21 Feb 2004 00:37 GMT

> Dan, I dislike contradicting anyone, but having made dozens of batches of
> developer starting from a dollop of a 10% sodium hydroxide stock solution
> and a scoop of 20 Mule Team Borax, I have not had the slightest problem in
> getting good negatives... The aesthetic quality of the images may be
> another issue, but the negatives are consistent...

I don't believe I've been contradicted. You have your way of contending
with sodium hydroxides hydrophilic property.

> On the issue of left over lye granules, there aren't any... Go to the
> Unblinking Eye article and follow the directions for mixing the entire
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> enough to be a major hazard, and should you get a drop of it on
> your skin, or on the counter... Just rinse it off..

I've no use for lye and forsee no use for it. Sodium carbonate gives
me as high a ph as I'll likely ever need. Besides, an approach which
occured to me and is supported by Ryuji Suzuki has more appeal.
Blends of bicarbonate and carbonate will yield any ph within
their bounds.

> For those who are adverse to basic chemistry, then the chemical
> sources you cite are just fine...

Artcraft Chemical, Photographer's Formulary, and Tri Ess Scientific

There is a lot of basic chemistry starting with the metaborate on
the shelf. Dan

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Patrick Gainer - 21 Feb 2004 05:46 GMT

> > Dan, I dislike contradicting anyone, but having made dozens of batches of
> > developer starting from a dollop of a 10% sodium hydroxide stock solution
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> There is a lot of basic chemistry starting with the metaborate on
> the shelf. Dan

There are times, I think, when pH is not the only factor, and the same
with buffer capacity. Carbon, silicon and boron all have compounds with
overlapping pH values that could be substituted one for another over
some range if that is the only criterion. I haven't done a lot of
controlled experimenting along that line, but I have heard that with the
staining developers it makes a difference in the color of the stain. I
have used triethanolaine with the A solution of PMK with good results,
using equal amounts of A and TEA.

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Ian Grant - 21 Feb 2004 23:43 GMT

The alternative means of deriving Sodium Metaborate from Borax & Sodium
Hydroxide have been described for at least 50 years in varioud Focal Press
Publications including the Encyclopedia's of Photography

Ian

> Are there any inexpensive sources for sodium metaborate?
> -Lew

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