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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / September 2006Sixty-year-old undeveloped film
I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my grandfather's personal effects. Along with the developed items, I found three rolls of apparently exposed but undeveloped 35mm film. One is Kodak "Panatomic," and the other two are Kodak "Panchromatic SS" and "Panchromatic SX." I assume the latter are color film. Assuming they're contemporary with the other 35mm negatives, they were exposed around 1940. Is there any chance that they'll produce usable negatives, or are they junk? Thanks -Mark > I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my grandfather's > personal effects. Along with the developed items, I found three rolls of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks > -Mark Its definetly worth a try at developing them, I know of a guy who was given an old camera, found a film inside and had it developed, the photographs where taken by his grandfather during a holiday in germany a few years before the outbreak of WWII, he had some clear photos of Adolf Hitler at a rally, so you never know, might be soem really interesting photos on those films. Brian....................... > I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my grandfather's > personal effects. Along with the developed items, I found three rolls of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks > -Mark Panchromatic means black and white film with approximately equal response to all ranges of color. I've developed some 40 year old 120 film this year with good results and printable negatives, just requiring a higher paper contrast. Developing black and white is pretty cheap, so you'd be out a little time and money at home (or a little more money if you send it out custom) against the possibility of having some irreplaceable family pictures (and a good story to tell.) Why not? Rob Dean > I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my grandfather's > personal effects. Along with the developed items, I found three rolls of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks > -Mark Panatomic is the predecessor to Panatomic-X. Panchromatic SS is black and white film SS means super-sensitive. Not sure of the SX, are you sure it says that? Both of the others are 1930's films older than sixty years, more like 65 or more years old. Its possible for the latent image to survive that long. Roll film seems especially long lasting perhaps because the tight rolling prevents oxidation. There is an outfit called Film Rescue that specializes in processing of old films, not cheap but they have a good record of success. http://www.filmrescue.com/ Otherwise I suggest using a fairly active developer at much lower than normal temperatures. I have film data going back to the mid 1940's but not much before that. I'll look but I don't think I have specific instuctions on these films. Panatomic replaced a fine grain motion picture stock called Background-X c.1938, I think Panatomic replaced Background-X shortly after. By the early 1940's Panatomic-X had replaced both. I would guess these films date from c.1937, maybe even earlier. It is certainly worth trying to develop them.  Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Panatomic is the predecessor to Panatomic-X. Panchromatic > SS is black and white film SS means super-sensitive. Not > sure of the SX, are you sure it says that? Both of the > others are 1930's films older than sixty years, more like 65 > or more years old. Here's a scan of the film cans: http://www.speakeasy.org/~mgendron/graphics/film_cans.jpg > > Panatomic is the predecessor to Panatomic-X. Panchromatic > > SS is black and white film SS means super-sensitive. Not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.speakeasy.org/~mgendron/graphics/film_cans.jpg These look like they were packaged for special purpose use since they say Eastman rather than Kodak on them. I wonder if they were even packaged by Kodak, they may be bulk loaded cassettes with lables showing the kind of film in them. SX with some thought is probably Super-X. This was a motion picture stock. The brand "Super-X" was used for 16mm reversal film but was a 35mm negative stock before that, c. mid 1930's. Eventually it was replaced by Plus-X and the name Super-X used for the reversal film. SS is Super Sensitive Pan, also a motion picture stock of the mid to late 1930's. Panatomic was also used for a motion picture stock replacing the former Background and Background-X stocks, both very slow, very fine grain (for the time) motion picture negative films for outdoor use. Background implyed the film was intended for filming background "plates" i.e., the films used in rear projection shots. What I think is that these are bulk loaded from "short ends" of these films. That might have been done pre-ww-2 but tons of film were available military surplus right after the war and were sold both in bulk and spooled. Its too bad the film is gone because the type of perforations would tell the story. 35mm motion picture negative stock uses Bell & Howell perforations, which have semicircular sides. 35mm positive films and still camera films have Kodak Standard perfs which are oblong with rounded corners. Some very early film for 35mm still cameras had the negative perforations but films from at least the mid 1930's, perhaps even earlier, had KS perfs. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Its too bad the film is gone because the type of > perforations would tell the story. Well, I probably _do_ have the film, since the cartridges were in a box with numerous rolls of 35mm negatives. Let's see. . . here's some "Agfa Supreme Pan" with the Bell & Howell perfs. We have some "Agfa Plenachrome" with B&H perfs. Here's some "Kodak Panchromatic Nitrate Film" with some interior shots of my great-grandfather's liquor store in Framingham, Mass. B&H perfs on that, as well as on the "Eastman Panatomic." There's some "Super XX" with Kodak perfs. A roll of "Superpan" with B&H perfs. Something called "Plenachrome," also B&H perfs. Yes, a veritable plethora of old film. These sure are wound up tight. Any suggestions for how to flatten them enough to get them into sleeves? Thanks -Mark > > Its too bad the film is gone because the type of > > perforations would tell the story. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks > -Mark I may have old developing instuctions for some of these, I'll check. Some brief history. The German company Agfa bought out Ansco in 1926 and operated it until the outbreak of WW-2 when it was seized by the U.S.Government. The Agfa trade name continued to be used until about late 1943. Ansco was the oldest U.S. photographic manufacturing company dating to around 1840. Agfa/Ansco made a wide variety of film and paper; they were Kodak's chief competition. Supreme Pan was a medium speed panchromatic film sold as motion picture negative stock and also for 35mm still cameras. It was their competition to Kodak SS Pan and Plus-X motion picture films. Plenachome was an orthochromatic (not red sensive) film for box cameras, the competition to Kodak Verichrome. Agfa also made a Fine-Grain Plenichrome for 35mm cameras. Panatomic was a very slow very fine grain film, the predecessor of Panatomic-X, probably about ISO-12 Kodak Super-XX was made until about twenty years ago. It was a medium speed rather coarse grain film with excellent tonal rendition and B&W to color rendition. Speed now would be around ISO 150 or 200. Agfa Superpan was a medium speed panchromatic roll film with excellent tonal rendition, similar in speed and application to Kodak Plus-X I suspect these films date from the mid 1930's perhaps sometime around 1936 to 1939. At that time some 35mm still film was probably still sold with B&H perfs. Plenachrome was never available as a motion picture stock so that must have been the case. About the only thing I can suggest for flattening the film is to put into a chamber with very high humidity for a time. Try hanging them in a small bathroom and turining on the how water in the shower. The moisture should penetrate the gelatin reasonably evenly, a small amount of weight on the ends should pull them flat. Be careful since some of this film may be pretty brittle. If so there is not much that can be done for it. The Kodak Panchromatic Nitrate film is almost certainly a motion picture stock. Kodak stopped making nitrate for still cameras, even 35mm cameras, sometime in the early 1930's. All nitrate was discontinued in 1951 (trivia: Sunset Boulevard was the last feature picture shot on nitrate). Kodak's nitrate seems to be among the most stable but no nitrate is very stable. Typical indications of decomposition are brown patches, "rust" especially at the edges, wavieness, and soemtimes, but not always, a camphor (moth ball) odor. The fire danger from small amounts of nitrate is not significant but it should still be stored in a ventillated container so any evolved gasses can escape. Not a problem for single strips of film or a few loose negatives. Safety base film can also decompose, as the motion picture industry found to their horror recently. This applies to still as well as motion picture film. Decomposing film will look wrinkled and may have a vinegar odor. I think this is mainly a problem with the tri-acetate films made after about 1945. In any case, the strong curl of your film _may_ be due to this decomposition. If the negatives have any value I suggest copying them as soon as possible. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > I may have old developing instuctions for some of these, > I'll check. They're already developed. I am referring to the negative strips. Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. > Some brief history. The German company Agfa bought out Ansco > in 1926 and operated it until the outbreak of WW-2 when it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > around 1840. Agfa/Ansco made a wide variety of film and > paper; they were Kodak's chief competition. Another item in this collection is a box of Agfa 2-1/2 x 3-1/2 sheet film (also already developed.) Here's the box (256k download) with the Agfa/Ansco trade name: http://www.lukejtornatzky.com/graphics/agfa_box.jpg > I suspect these films date from the mid 1930's perhaps > sometime around 1936 to 1939. At that time some 35mm still > film was probably still sold with B&H perfs. Plenachrome was > never available as a motion picture stock so that must have > been the case. Those dates sound about right, considering my grandfather's apparent age in some of the photos. > About the only thing I can suggest for flattening the film > is to put into a chamber with very high humidity for a time. > Try hanging them in a small bathroom and turining on the how > water in the shower. Thanks, I'll try that. > > I may have old developing instuctions for some of these, > > I'll check. > > They're already developed. I am referring to the negative > strips. Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. Actually my fault for not reading more carefully. > > Some brief history. The German company Agfa bought out Ansco > > in 1926 and operated it until the outbreak of WW-2 when it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.lukejtornatzky.com/graphics/agfa_box.jpg Interesting. Agfa Superpan Press was a fairly fast film for press and industrial photography. It was Agfa's competition to Kodak Super Panchro Press Type-B. Superpan Press also seems to have been a popular portrait film judging from the technical data from publications like _U.S.Camera Annual_. Sometime in the early to mid 1930's (I don't remember the date) Agfa developed the use of Gold sensitizer which immediately nearly doubled the speed of their films without increasing grain. It caught Kodak with their pants down and it took them a while to catch up. By 1940 Kodak was again making the fastest film on the market. This was sold under the name Super Panchro Press, Sports Type. This had a speed of probably about ISO 400 to 600. Remarkable stuff for the time but evidently fussy. BTW the Type-B on Super Panchro Press means its color sensitivity. Kodak devided panchromatic films into three groups; A, B, and C, in order of increasing red sensitivity. Type-A were the first pan films, which did not have very high sensitivity to red light. Type-B is a medium red sensitivity film, most current pan films are Type-B. Type-C was a high red sensitivity film. Currently Kodak Technical Pan is about the only Type-C film but in the past Kodak made others since it was evidently difficult to make a film with very high overall sensitivity without unbalancing the red end of the spectrum. I don't know if Agfa/Ansco made any Type-C films but they did not classify their films as Kodak did. The 1940 date peeking out from the torn label suggests the film was sold perhaps a year earlier. These are truely bits of the past and I would preserve them. Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my > grandfather's personal effects. Along with the developed items, I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > chance that they'll produce usable > negatives, or are they junk? Why don't you process them and find out? What have you got to loose? SignatureStefan Patric tootek2@yahoo.com > Why don't you process them and find out? What have you got to loose? Well, the unopened antique film cans look nice on my shelf. :-) Kodak did not start crimping on end caps until the mid-60's (or later) so you should be able to "pop" the lids on these canisters in the darkroom, process the film in trays (I'd almost guarantee too much curl to load the film on any kind of reels!) and then replace the spools and end caps and put the film canisters on display on the shelf. -- darkroommike ---------- > > Why don't you process them and find out? What have you got to loose? > > Well, the unopened antique film cans look nice on my shelf. :-) Well, dang! The film cartridges were empty. Oh well. . .they're nice antiques. >I recently liberated a box of old photos and negatives from my grandfather's >personal effects. Along with the developed items, I found three rolls of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks >-Mark ************************************************* Hi, Mark! Panchromatic film is Black & White negative film. Panatomic-X is a fine-grain Panchromatic film. Is it any good. You'll never know until you process it. Use any Fine-grain negative film developer. Even if they are fogged, you might still get some salvageable interesting antique pictures out of the deal. SignatureDelane |
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