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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / August 2003

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Stupid question # 4001

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fred - 02 Aug 2003 19:48 GMT
Hi,

Has anyone ever tried those little italian Christmas lights as a darkroom
safelight? I seem to recall hearing you could make your own out of LEDs, but
are these little lights too bright for such activities? I know they are
incandescent, but are they dim enough to work. Maybe just four or five from
a distance of ten or so feet?
Richard Knoppow - 02 Aug 2003 23:05 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> incandescent, but are they dim enough to work. Maybe just four or five from
> a distance of ten or so feet?

 There are no stupid questions!!!
  Small, colored lightbulbs will work as safelights but
should be tested. The visual color is not always a good
indicator of the actual spectral output, i.e., a red bulb
may enough blue output to fog printing paper. Kodak has a
good test posted on their web site, do a search for K-4 it
should take you to it.
 No safelight is truely safe. Eventually even the best will
cause some fogging. While there are many advocates of bright
darkrooms I think the light level should be no more than
allows for comfortable working. Certainly judging prints by
a safelight is going to misleading even with bright ones so
that should not be a consideration.
 Used Kodak safelights are common at quite reasonable
prices, especially the bee-hive ones. For most variable
contrast and graded paper the Kodak OC safelight is good.
Any paper can be handled under a red safelight but red is a
less comfortable color than amber to work under for long
periods.
 Again colored light bulbs can work but the coloring has to
be complete (no clear borders around the base) and you must
test them.
Signature


---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

John - 02 Aug 2003 23:53 GMT
>  There are no stupid questions!!!

    Only stupid people !

Regards

  John S. Douglas, Photographer
    http://www.darkroompro.com
John Garand - 26 Aug 2003 01:34 GMT
ON Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:05:33 GMT, "Richard Knoppow"
<dickburk@ix.netcom.com> WROTE:

>There are no stupid questions!!!

Sure there are.  The stupid questions are the ones people have, but
don't ask.
Mike King - 27 Aug 2003 16:53 GMT
It's the nature of newgroups to generate many more stupid answers than
stupid questions.

--
darkroommike

----------
> ON Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:05:33 GMT, "Richard Knoppow"
> <dickburk@ix.netcom.com> WROTE:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Michael Scarpitti - 03 Aug 2003 00:40 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> incandescent, but are they dim enough to work. Maybe just four or five from
> a distance of ten or so feet?

Not sure I understand your question. Safelights are supplied by the
manufacturers of sensitized goods, and these are the recommended ones
to use.
Pete McCutchen - 03 Aug 2003 16:27 GMT
>> Hi,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>manufacturers of sensitized goods, and these are the recommended ones
>to use.

So does Leica make safelights?  If so, they are undoubtedly the best.
Signature


Pete McCutchen

Michael Scarpitti - 04 Aug 2003 02:52 GMT
> >> Hi,
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> So does Leica make safelights?  If so, they are undoubtedly the best.

Is this the best you can do?
Pete McCutchen - 05 Aug 2003 13:35 GMT
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Is this the best you can do?

I'll try to do better next time.
Signature


Pete McCutchen

Ken Hart - 03 Aug 2003 20:05 GMT
> > Hi,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> manufacturers of sensitized goods, and these are the recommended ones
> to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Italian" Christmas lights. If you're
referring to the little (about 1" long, 1/4" diameter) el cheapo special
lights, the ones I've seen are made in Japan, China, or Taiwan. My concerns
with these lights (1) are the quality of the color coating: will it fade in
time?; (2) Off hand, I think they would be too bright, (3) when a bulb burns
out in July, where will you find a replacement?

OTOH, the procedure for testing a safelight is very simple; why not try it
out? If it doesn't work, you've got new Christmas lights!

If you're trying to get away cheap, why not also test a small (7 1/2 Watt)
red bulb?

Signature

Ken Hart
kwhart@aec.nu

Bertrand Collet - 03 Aug 2003 09:48 GMT
> Has anyone ever tried those little italian Christmas lights as a darkroom
> safelight? I seem to recall hearing you could make your own out of LEDs, but
> are these little lights too bright for such activities? I know they are
> incandescent, but are they dim enough to work. Maybe just four or five from
> a distance of ten or so feet?

It is possible that they give safe light, but I would not risk it ...
knowing the price of of a safe bulb.

Bertrand
Michael A. Covington - 03 Aug 2003 16:07 GMT
Red LEDs are very safe.  Red or orange light bulbs may or may not be.  Some
red bulbs transmit a considerable amount of blue light, and orange may be
safer.

To test whether a safelight is safe, expose a piece of paper to mid-gray,
then lay a coin down on it and leave it under the safelight for 2 minutes,
then develop.  If you can see the outline of the coin, the light isn't quite
safe.
Dr. Dagor - 07 Aug 2003 00:38 GMT
This thread has turned into a general discussion of safelights, and
that's healthy, because there is no "safe" safe light, and the
technology of papers and illuminators changes enough that it's worth
keeping up to date.

One idea I picked up working in large graphics darkrooms what that
there are two very distinct kinds of safe light --  area lights and
task lights.
Area lights, like the classic 8x10 Kodak half drum and the Thomas
sodium vapor provide a good, working level of illumination through the
room.  That's fine for not bumping into things, finding the paper
drawer, and washing your hands.

But certain tasks may require specific lighting.  An example in my
darkroom is  checking temperatures.  I have added LEDs to two
thermometers I need to check often, but that are pretty much
unreadable by the area light. A more familiar example of a special
purpose illuminator is the light pipe used on many enlarger
lens-boards or even in the lenses to illuminate the scale of f-stops.

So a reasonable recommendation is the one given to me some years
ago...  Turn down the area light, and put special purpose lights
around to help with specific tasks...  Just make sure these special
lights don't contribute to the overall level or room illumination.

Hope this helps.
 
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