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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2004Whats the Best Enlarger Lens for 6 x 6 - Schneider or Rodenstock ?
Im printing at 12 x 16 inch, and cannot stand the softness from the current lens im using, (cant even remeber the brand its that bad) Im looking at the Componon S, and the APO Componon (a bit expensive for me) Im looking to get the best price to performance ratio. Should I be looking at Rodenstock lenses also? And does anyone have extensive experience with both? THanks in advance Peter Buy a Rodenstock Rodagon 80mm on eBay for around $50:-. But buy the latest type in black plastic. (of cource, the glass is glass, not plastic.) Then make a print and spend the night counting grains..... Regards Victor > Im printing at 12 x 16 inch, and cannot stand the softness from the > current lens im using, (cant even remeber the brand its that bad) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Peter >Subject: Whats the Best Enlarger Lens for 6 x 6 - Schneider or Rodenstock >? Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2985079092&category=29986 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2986072519&category=29986 Bob Hi is the Rodenstock Rodagon better than a Companon S ? I have about $250 to spend on a 6 x 6 lens. Peter > Hi is the Rodenstock Rodagon better than a Companon S ? > > I have about $250 to spend on a 6 x 6 lens. > > Peter I've got that fantastic article by Ctein from a Darkroom mag (sept/oct '83) lying around where he tested 90 lenses from 70 different manufacturers... The criteria for the "The Best Enlargin Lenses in the World" were: _Sharpness_ 200lp/mm for 35mm lenses 150lp/mm for 120 film 100lp/mm for 4x5 _Falloff_ 1/4 of a stop falloff for all of the lenses (at Grade 5 this became noticable and therefore became the defacto standard). _Flatfield_ A 50mm lens is deemed to have 1mm of depth of focus at F4 with an 8x10 print and so this was also considered critical for a lens to be included in the excellent lenses bunch... One of the factors which aggravated this problem were misaligned lenses, or decentred lenses... Measured by comparing lp/mm of the various lenses in each of the four corners of a particular sample. Quoting from the article: "...Lenses with more than 50 percent variation were 'significantly' misaligned by our standards. Lenses with 75 percent or more variation were awarded the appellation 'dogs'. Frankly we were astonished at finding so many misaligned lenses. So far as I can tell, all lens makers have this problem. *(!)* Furthermore, the performance of a well-made sample has nothing to do with chances of getting a poorly made one--one of our top-rated names also belonged to a particular sample that was so bad I wouldn't have used it if I got it for free! In short I cannot recommend any particular lens maker or design as being particularly reliable." Ctein goes on to say, *"You are gambling no matter who you buy your lens from."* Another huge factor in getting the best from a lens has to also be in alignment of an enlarger. This also got quite a bit of emphasis... Needless to say both the Rodenstock Eurygon 80mm F4 and the Schneider Componon S 80mm F4 were in the final list in the medium format lenses as were (in no particular order) Apo Rodogon 90mm F4, Focotar ll 100mm F5,6, 100mm Componon S F5.6, El Nikkor 105mm F5,6N, Rodagon 105mm F5.6, Rodagon 135mm F5.6. It was interesting to not none of the wide angle enlarging designs could pass the light fall-off tests. Also, that if a lens came in more than one maximum F-stop ie a 50mm F2.8 and a 50mm F4 - invariably the faster lens was the better performing... Now, I'd like to know which lens manufacturer could produce the best and (possibly) the worst of the bunch? I have a hunch though ;-) "nicholas t" <poozledNOSPAM@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > Also, that if a lens came in more than > one maximum F-stop ie a 50mm F2.8 and a 50mm F4 - invariably the faster > lens was the better performing... There is a specific reason for this that has nothing to do with the speed of the lens. Virtually all 50mm f/2.8 enlarging lenses are 6-element symmetrical designs, and conversely, virtually all 50mm f/4 lenses are inferior 3 or 4-element designs. There is not a big difference between the various 6-element enlarging lenses from the major lens manufacturers, unless one starts looking at APO models, and even then many have a hard time distinguishing them. This assumes that one uses the lens at its optimum aperture, which is usually 2-3 stops closed from wide open (some APO lenses work better about 1-2 stops closed from wide open). > It was interesting to not none of the wide angle enlarging designs could > pass the light fall-off tests. The Rodenstock Eurygon is the former nsme of the Rodenstock WA wide angle lens. The 90mm Apo Rodagon was replaced with the 80mm Apo Rodagon-N and a newer version of the 90mm Apo Rodagon N is currently also available as long as inventory lasts.  SignatureTo reply no_ HPMarketing Corp. Bob wrote: > The Rodenstock Eurygon is the former nsme of the Rodenstock WA wide > angle lens I realise this and in writing the words: > It was interesting to not none of the wide angle enlarging designs could pass the light fall-off tests I wasn't trying to say anything bad about Rodenstock wide angle lenses, I did some research of my own back in the day when I bought my own wide angle lenses, incidently I own a Rodenstock Rodagon F4 80mm and I am very pleased with it :-) having recently redone some checks with it and my Micromega Critical Focusser . I was curious about this as well esp seeing as I own a WA Componon (a 60mm) as well. I was merely paraphrasing from the article this (p.39) "On the other hand, I found no wide angle lenses which passed our standards." He goes on to say, "Thus for optimal optical performance we do not recommend lenses shorter than 50mm for 35mm and 80mm for 120 formats..." Mark wrote: > There is a specific reason for this that has nothing to do with the speed of > the lens. Virtually all 50mm f/2.8 enlarging lenses are 6-element > symmetrical designs, and conversely, virtually all 50mm f/4 lenses are > inferior 3 or 4-element designs. Yes that is true that the Nikkor F4 50mm is a 4 element design... From Ctein and the other co-author I omitted before, Ken Werner, the writers of the aforementioned article... "When we had two equivilent lenses from the same manufacturer with different maximum apertures (like the El Nikkor F2.8 and F4 50mm lenses or the Componon F4 or F5.6 80mm lenses) the faster lens was invariably the better one" AFAIK, these Componon lenses are both six element designs... Mark also wrote: > There is not a big difference between the various 6-element enlarging lenses > from the major lens manufacturers, unless one starts looking at APO models, > and even then many have a hard time distinguishing them. This assumes that > one uses the lens at its optimum aperture, which is usually 2-3 stops closed > from wide open (some APO lenses work better about 1-2 stops closed from wide > open). At the end of the article, the last paragraph: "Apochromatic lenses are good but they don't work miracles. In fact top-notch lenses are already so well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration that the practical distinction between ordinary and 'apo' lenses isn't great. You can do excellent color separation work, such as dye transfer, with a good conventional lens." It is interesting to note that there are process lenses made with four elements, albeit, perhaps there are more dialytes than there are tessar-types...(I don't know either way) But, I do own a fantastic Axinon 90mm four element enlarging lens which I cannot fault at all next to my Nikkor 80mm or Rodenstock 80mm, both 6 element designs at 20x24in in the corners at F8-11. I do know that optical theory says that a good 6 element lens should outclass a good 4 element lens. :-s The reason I posted this initially was to reference an article where the conclusion seemed to me to be very interesting, that each lens is unique and therefore cannot be judged on pedigree alone and that if a person truly wants a decent (enlarging) lens, they should try one on a properly aligned enlarger - for themselves. > Apochromatic lenses are good but they don't work miracles. In fact > top-notch lenses are already so well corrected for lateral chromatic > aberration that the practical distinction between ordinary and 'apo' > lenses isn't great. You can do excellent color separation work, such as > dye transfer, with a good conventional lens. What he also left out is that the Apo Rodagon-N are multicoated which makes a difference in their performance when compared to non MC coated lenses. The older Apo Rodagon were not MC. He also did not, or could not, test for the differences in distortion between a lens like the Apo Rodagon N and non apo or other apo lenses. And like his article on focus shifts with MG he used a test for centering that no lens manufacturer uses or that can be repeated. You would be better off aligning your enlarger critically, adding a glass carrier and doing your own test to see what lens works best for you. You will never find the variability between lenses theat Ctein did. SignatureTo reply no_ HPMarketing Corp. You can't remember what brand of enlarger lens you use? Could you possibly get up and walk into the darkroom and LOOK at the lens. If it walks like a Troll, and talks like a Troll... -- darkroommike ---------- > Im printing at 12 x 16 inch, and cannot stand the softness from the > current lens im using, (cant even remeber the brand its that bad) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Peter |
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