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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2004

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Seeking a Master Printing Workshop

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Ken Smith - 01 Feb 2004 23:54 GMT
I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
1.) alternative process oriented 2.) masking oriented 3.) toner
oriented 4.) or any other whistle and gong. My idea of a great printer
in the silver process is one who can make prints from my negatives
that I never thought possible, without resorting to anything fancy,
even including bleach. I don't usually care for spectacular, punchy
images. I'm far more interested in long tones that retain richness of
contrast, and evenness. Seemlessly evening things out , and juggling
twenty areas without going through a whole box of paper, is more my
problem. Of course an alternative process printer may be the best man
out there, but I am not interested in launching into yet another
materials oriented technique with its promises when my underlining
skills have not been resolved. Time by the way has not resolved the
impass. I started printing in 1973.

Too tall an order? It's my feeling that I am making above average
prints, but my working approach is somehow flawed, and the exceptional
is too rarely acheived, even though the negatives are well under
control, (thanks to Pyrocat.) All these other approaches I'm sure have
their place, but I want to first acheive exceptional straight forward
printing. Some people might say I
have done just that, as I've been hired several times to print shows
and portfolios. I feel however that I am at best an 8 out of 10 and am
struggling to close the gap.

I  can no longer justify ten to twenty sheets of paper per print, even
though many printers will say that's exactly average. I say, how is
anyone supposed to get portfolios together when hundreds and hundreds
of dollars end up in the trash? So...does anybody know of a great
printer that has a workshop, or would perhaps even take on a private
few sessions that address a master level of silver printmaking, and
does not spend 90% of the class on basics, or veer off into elaborate
techniques?
Tom Thackrey - 02 Feb 2004 00:41 GMT
> I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> does not spend 90% of the class on basics, or veer off into elaborate
> techniques?

I'm sure there are many others, but on the left coast of the US I think a
private class with Rod Dresser (www.roddresser.com) would be a pretty good
investment. I took one of his darkroom workshops through UCSC Extension and
it was excellent. Rod was trained by Ansel Adams and has the science and
technology as well as the art POV.

You could also contact William Giles (www.williamgiles.com) and see if you
can talk him into a private class. He's more old school (no exposure
analyzers) but he's a magician in the darkroom. I had a private darkroom
session one day from Will, he's amazing. He can help you take your art to a
new level. Black & White is going to have a big article on Will in the next
issue.

My experience with public workshops in general, is that they tend to have a
few beginners who usually distract the instructor and dilute the content.

Signature

Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to jamesbutler@willglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)

John - 02 Feb 2004 01:03 GMT
>I'm sure there are many others, but on the left coast of the US I think a
>private class with Rod Dresser (www.roddresser.com) would be a pretty good
>investment.

    I certainly concur about RD. I had the pleasure of meeting him
in Feb. '94 when he gave a seminar for Calumet in Philadelphia, PA.
His images are fabulous and skill probably matches Adams if not
surpasses him. Unfortunately most of his photography leaves me
scratching my head.

Regards,

  John S. Douglas, Photographer -  http://www.darkroompro.com
             Please remove the "_" when replying via email
Ken Smith - 02 Feb 2004 15:37 GMT
>?
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> My experience with public workshops in general, is that they tend to have a
> few beginners who usually distract the instructor and dilute the content.

Thanks very much for the suggestions. These guys sound like what I'm
looking for.
I've always suspected and have never taken a workshop for a few good
reasons. One
being exactly what you said.  I don't want to pay big money to listen
to a bunch of
people oohh and ahhh the instructors every gesture while a tiny
fraction of the whole
deal hints at my actual problem.      

                                                  Thanks again, Ken
Smith
Michael Scarpitti - 02 Feb 2004 02:34 GMT
> I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
> 1.) alternative process oriented 2.) masking oriented 3.) toner
> oriented 4.) or any other whistle and gong.

What format are you using?

What paper?

What paper developer?

What enlarger?

What lens?

What film?

You know, it is not easy....
HypoBob - 02 Feb 2004 22:55 GMT
John Sexton would be another good choice.

Bob
------------------------

>I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
>instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>does not spend 90% of the class on basics, or veer off into elaborate
>techniques?
Dan Quinn - 03 Feb 2004 04:41 GMT
> I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that I never thought possible, without resorting to anything fancy,
> even including bleach.

 I've a notion that you have not given enough attention to
photogenics. I've just finished reading David Vestal's The Non-
Cosmetic Print. "... the picture needs to be good enough in the
first place to work and survive without the ...". I'll let you
fill in the "ornament" and/or "tricks".
 Not all the views I photograph would I class as photogenic. I do
keep that in mind. The medium is silver-gelatine and the subject
is to fit the medium. The more photogenic the less squeesing.
 Of course there is always the challenge. I've a few of those
challenging negatives.                                         Dan
CBlood59 - 03 Feb 2004 12:54 GMT
<< Subject: Re: Seeking a Master Printing Workshop
From: dan.c.quinn@att.net  (Dan Quinn)
Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2004 12:41 AM
Message-id: <b379902d.0402022041.60a00814@posting.google.com>

RE: aldenphoto@aol.com (Ken Smith) wrote

> I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that I never thought possible, without resorting to anything fancy,
> even including bleach.

I took George Tice's Master Printing class at the Maine Photographic Workshops
a couple of years ago.  The teaching is very clear and methodical.  I had the
same problem you describe, and the workshop was very helpful.

The website is:
http://www.meworkshops.com

Curt Blood
Ken Smith - 03 Feb 2004 16:01 GMT
> > I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> > instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>   Of course there is always the challenge. I've a few of those
> challenging negatives.                                         Dan

     Photogenic, adj  1.)  (of a person) suitable for being photographed
     for artistic purposes, etc. 2. Biol. producing or emitting light as
     certain bacteria: luminiferous: phosphorescent. 3. rare. produced by  
     light.

             hmmmm. I'm still confused by the term photogenics. But I do
     fully agree that the picture needs to be good enough in the first place.
     I've said that to people a hundred times. I'm pretty sure that's your
     meaning. However, I'm trying to do non-scenic landscapes, and often I
     don't photograph in the choice light of afternoon, or silky thin cloud
     cover. Sometimes it's harsh. In fact over the years, being in the west,
     dealing with this harshness has been the issue. An image can still look
     tasty though, as long as the tones are controlled without going flat.An
     even natural looking tonality must be produced on the print too. A book
     that has me in knots is William Wylie's "Riverwalk". A somewhat Robert
     Adams influenced document on the Poudre River in Colorado. I've mentioned
     this book several times here over the years, while stating my problems,
     but no one seems to have looked at it. Get a library loan, and you'll
     know what I'm after. They are seeminly ordinary, but are really very
     outstanding, impeccable prints. The closest I've come has been with
     the help of pyrocat, but often I lose my highlights too much and the print
     loses a strong sense of light. Any sense of light. I'll probably find out
     one day that Wylie uses Tri-X and D-76. Either way there's still something
     missing in my printing, or maybe you're right, and I'm simply not shooting
     things that convey well. Could be. Wylie's information anywhere in the
     scene is so readable. Every pebble. Take a look.
Chris Ellinger - 03 Feb 2004 13:19 GMT
>I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
>instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>that I never thought possible, without resorting to anything fancy,
>even including bleach.

You might contact Howard Bond and discuss your interests.  He teaches
an advanced printing workshop, and may be open to individual
instruction.

His phone:   (734) 665-6597

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
Gregory W Blank - 03 Feb 2004 17:31 GMT
> >I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
> >instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Chris Ellinger
> Ann Arbor, MI

Chris he said no masking, thats Howards thing.
Signature

LF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank

Chris Ellinger - 03 Feb 2004 18:32 GMT
>> >I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop, or private
>> >instruction. I would like to find a true master printer that is not
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Chris he said no masking, thats Howards thing.

It is my impression from taking several of Howard's workshops that he
is not dogmatic about any technique, and is an expert printer --
masking or not.  This is why I suggested that the original poster
contact Howard to discuss his interests and requirements.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
Gregory W Blank - 03 Feb 2004 19:02 GMT
In article <7tpv10pkt070darvimhiosreqmn0qhvenj@4ax.com>,
Chris Ellinger <elliner@umich.edu> wrote:
> It is my impression from taking several of Howard's workshops that he
> is not dogmatic about any technique, and is an expert printer --
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Chris Ellinger
> Ann Arbor, MI

Fair enough, I BTW would personally love to take Howard's
Workshops,.....he does some pretty incredible printing. I even thought
about mentioning the workshops myself until I read the OP part about
not wanting to do masking. In any event
Best Regards
Gb.
Signature

LF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank

Tom Phillips - 03 Feb 2004 12:42 GMT
> > It is my impression from taking several of Howard's workshops that he
> > is not dogmatic about any technique, and is an expert printer --
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> about mentioning the workshops myself until I read the OP part about
> not wanting to do masking. In any event

Bond's masking workshop is apparently specific to just masking
technique. I've never taken it but I've seen some remarkable Bond prints
using that technique. He has other workshops including Zone System, View
Camera, and one called "Refinements in Black and White Printing."
D Poinsett - 05 Feb 2004 04:44 GMT
I'll second the suggestion for Howard Bond's "Refinements in Black & White
Printing". It has to be one of the best values in a high quality workshop
these days. As Chris said, Mr. Bond is not dogmatic about masks and does not
emphasize them in the workshop mentioned above (he offers a separate
workshop for masks). The printing workshop concentrates on understanding
materials and controlling processes. The workshop deals with darkroom
technique entirely and reviews numerous fine prints in his collection (not
all his) for the purpose of seeing how tonal range is managed by
acknowledged master printers. Compositional issues are not discussed.

Regarding unsharp masks, it really is just another technique that can be
used or abused and of course anyone has the perfect right to use it or not,
like it or not, etc. If you employ large format, the sharpening effect can
be slight. Mr. Bond uses the technique almost exclusively to control local
contrast in dark regions of the print. Considering that he uses the unsharp
mask technique with 8x10 negs and you can see why the the sharpening effect
is secondary.

As Chris suggested, a phone conversation would likely determine if Mr.
Bond's workshop offers what you are looking for.

D
Dan Quinn - 05 Feb 2004 10:56 GMT
> I'm interested in finding a master printing workshop,...

 David Vestal and Al Weber will be at a Photographer's Formulary
workshop this summer somewhere in Montana.
 Suppose you have one film and one film developer, one grade of
paper, one paper developer. You may vary film development. Then
according to definition number one of your previous post, find
a vista which will fit well.
 If the print is good I'd say that vista is photogenic. Makeing
variable the above mentioned materials will render more vistas
photogenic.                                                   Dan
 
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