TTL flash question.

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

clandestin_écureuil - 25 Jun 2008 05:18 GMT

Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of the compatibility between
various systems of TTL flash equipment? Are they all dedicated to a camera
system rather than a TTL standard (aside from the Four Thirds alliance) ?

So far Google hasn't given me details of the standards as applied to
different manufacturer's systems. I was hoping to find something like
Moose Peterson's treatise on film based TTL/SLR flash tutorial, but so far
have not come close. I want to get a higher rated flash, something with at
least double the Guide number of my current equipment, but would like to
have it versatile.

Secret Squirrel

Signature

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com

Reply to this Message

Mr.T - 25 Jun 2008 08:41 GMT

> Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of the compatibility between
> various systems of TTL flash equipment? Are they all dedicated to a camera
> system rather than a TTL standard (aside from the Four Thirds alliance) ?

Yep, each manufacturer makes their own "standard".
(I have no idea whether even the 4/3 alliance has a TTL flash standard?
Never used one myself)

> So far Google hasn't given me details of the standards as applied to
> different manufacturer's systems. I was hoping to find something like
> Moose Peterson's treatise on film based TTL/SLR flash tutorial, but so far
> have not come close. I want to get a higher rated flash, something with at
> least double the Guide number of my current equipment, but would like to
> have it versatile.

The only way to do that (that I know of) is to buy a Metz (some models) that
use one flash head with dedicated TTL modules to suit the camera brand.
Not sure if it's really cost effective though, you would have to make up
your own mind I guess. They do make some nice flash guns though if you want
high power, external battery packs, ultra fast recycling etc.

Most of the major flash manufacturers make TTL flash units for the major
camera platforms though (with varying amount of facilities compared to
manufacturers units) Most fall short if you want TTL multi-flash capability
though, except with another of their own brand flash. Best to stick with one
brand.

MrT.

Reply to this Message

Jimmy - 25 Jun 2008 11:02 GMT

>> Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of the compatibility between
>> various systems of TTL flash equipment? Are they all dedicated to a camera
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> MrT.

yep I haven't found a standard.

If you do try and use another module/cable on a Metz you will blow the
flash unit. nikon/canon

Reply to this Message

clandestin_écureuil - 28 Jun 2008 15:59 GMT

>> Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of the compatibility between
>> various systems of TTL flash equipment? Are they all dedicated to a camera
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> MrT.

Thanks.

I am beginning to think that I need to look at one of the big commercial
units, Metz or its competitors. I have an old (pre-TTL) Metz that will
blister paint off the wall if you get too close, but not much use as
anything other than a slave at the moment. They are a precursor to the TTL
flashes in that the Thyristor system did much the same thing but still need
a lot of manual fiddling. I also have access to some big Sunpak systems (as
long as my father is looking the other way... :) ) but they are also
Thyristor, not TTL. Someone at work suggested that there were modules in
existence to allow some of those older units to be adapted to TTL. I'll
have to look into it.

Secret Squirrel

Signature

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com

Reply to this Message

Mr.T - 30 Jun 2008 00:48 GMT

> I am beginning to think that I need to look at one of the big commercial
> units, Metz or its competitors. I have an old (pre-TTL) Metz that will
> blister paint off the wall if you get too close, but not much use as
> anything other than a slave at the moment.

Why? You may need to adapt the trigger voltage, but it will still work as a
manual flash or non TTL auto.
Frankly IMO digital camera's have made TTL auto *less* necessary, rather
than more. I use *manual* flash settings far more than TTL.
(and yet I owned the very first TTL auto flash system, OM2 and QA310)

>They are a precursor to the TTL
> flashes in that the Thyristor system did much the same thing but still need
> a lot of manual fiddling.

TTL flash guns still use thyrister control, and using TTL auto is not the
panacea for all flash usage you seem to think.
Better to learn how to properly use what you have IMO.

>I also have access to some big Sunpak systems (as
> long as my father is looking the other way... :) ) but they are also
> Thyristor, not TTL. Someone at work suggested that there were modules in
> existence to allow some of those older units to be adapted to TTL. I'll
> have to look into it.

Never heard of one. You are probably thinking of adapters that simply
convert the trigger voltage to that required by modern camera's.
Readily available BTW.

MrT.

Reply to this Message

clandestin_écureuil - 30 Jun 2008 08:35 GMT

>> I am beginning to think that I need to look at one of the big commercial
>> units, Metz or its competitors. I have an old (pre-TTL) Metz that will
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Why? You may need to adapt the trigger voltage, but it will still work as a
> manual flash or non TTL auto.

How do you adapt the trigger voltage? It is several hundred volts too high.

> Frankly IMO digital camera's have made TTL auto *less* necessary, rather
> than more. I use *manual* flash settings far more than TTL.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> panacea for all flash usage you seem to think.
> Better to learn how to properly use what you have IMO.

Then please, please enlighten me. I'm all ears. (Well, a few other bits as
well.)

>> I also have access to some big Sunpak systems (as
>> long as my father is looking the other way... :) ) but they are also
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> convert the trigger voltage to that required by modern camera's.
> Readily available BTW.

Maybe it was "mis-explained" to me. Tell me about these adapters - please.
I have asked staff at my local camera store but they just shake their
heads. I did see an eBay auction that claimed to be selling a TTL converter
for non TTL flashes with remote sensor inputs, but I didn't bid. It was
dedicated to another camera system.

Secret Squirrel

Signature

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com

Reply to this Message

Mr.T - 01 Jul 2008 12:18 GMT

> >> I am beginning to think that I need to look at one of the big commercial
> >> units, Metz or its competitors. I have an old (pre-TTL) Metz that will
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> How do you adapt the trigger voltage?

Maybe with an adapter as I said?
The simple circuit consists of nothing more than an scr and resistive
voltage divider.
Commercially available IF you bothered to look.

>It is several hundred volts too high.

That's why you need an adapter, so you don't fry the camera.

> >> They are a precursor to the TTL
> >> flashes in that the Thyristor system did much the same thing but still
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Then please, please enlighten me. I'm all ears. (Well, a few other bits as
> well.)

I'm quite happy to teach you all you want at an hourly rate.
Alternatively you could do some research on your own?
Or hope someone else here has brand/pricing/stockist details readily to
hand, that they are prepared to offer you.

> >> I also have access to some big Sunpak systems (as
> >> long as my father is looking the other way... :) ) but they are also
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Maybe it was "mis-explained" to me. Tell me about these adapters - please.

Why don't you search on-line, or check out the ads in Modern Photography or
Popular Photography etc.

> I have asked staff at my local camera store but they just shake their
> heads.

Not so unusual unfortunately. Most salesmen usually know nothing except what
they stock, and not very much even then.

>I did see an eBay auction that claimed to be selling a TTL converter
> for non TTL flashes with remote sensor inputs, but I didn't bid.

Yeah that's possible I guess. Not so common since there is not much demand.
Low sales volume would make the price fairly prohibitive I imagine.

>It was dedicated to another camera system.

Just as well you didn't bid then :-)

MrT.

Reply to this Message

clandestin_écureuil - 01 Jul 2008 23:55 GMT

>>>> I am beginning to think that I need to look at one of the big
> commercial
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> voltage divider.
> Commercially available IF you bothered to look.

I did look. When you first mentioned it I asked at the camera store I most
commonly use, checked eBay etc., but had no success. I then rang several
large photographic stores in Sydney and Melbourne and found exactly what I
need. I suspect that the local camera store was not trying too hard as they
were trying to sell me a new dedicated TTL flash.

The device that I have now located is far more sophisticated than a SCR
isolating circuit, it has full TTL dedication to my camera with a micro SD
programmed for my other primary camera. It will act as a controller for
several slave flashes still with dedicated TTL response. It was not cheap,
more expensive than a single dedicated TTL flash, but it will work with
more cameras and allows me to have a much more powerful flash.

>> It is several hundred volts too high.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> I'm quite happy to teach you all you want at an hourly rate.

I don't think so. I asked you to enlighten me with regard to a device you
mentioned, one that would allow me to use the equipment I already had - as
you suggested. I did not request any form of tutelage.

> Alternatively you could do some research on your own?

I do research all the time. Your post the other day was the first I have
heard of such an adapter. It took me two days to find someone in Australia
who could actually supply what I wanted. Maybe you could have done it
faster, maybe not, but I also have a career and this is a hobby. My career
get first priority - time wise.

> Or hope someone else here has brand/pricing/stockist details readily to
> hand, that they are prepared to offer you.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Why don't you search on-line, or check out the ads in Modern Photography or
> Popular Photography etc.

All taken care of, as I said. However, what are you doing here if your
response to a request for information about something you initially brought
up is to tell people to find the information elsewhere or "teach" for a
fee? A little curmudgeonly of you it seems.

>> I have asked staff at my local camera store but they just shake their
>> heads.
>
> Not so unusual unfortunately. Most salesmen usually know nothing except what
> they stock, and not very much even then.

I suspect that they know enough to keep quiet about things that will not
earn them as much income as selling new equipment.

>> I did see an eBay auction that claimed to be selling a TTL converter
>> for non TTL flashes with remote sensor inputs, but I didn't bid.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>> It was dedicated to another camera system.

However this is what I have ended up with, only with more features and
multiple camera programming. It provides me with dedicated TTL flash
capability with a Guide number approaching two hundred. That is very good,
particularly if you like to use bounce flash in large rooms as I do.

Secret Squirrel

Signature

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com

Reply to this Message

Mr.T - 02 Jul 2008 06:07 GMT

> >> How do you adapt the trigger voltage?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> more expensive than a single dedicated TTL flash, but it will work with
> more cameras and allows me to have a much more powerful flash.

Glad you found what you want then, if you were prepared to pay for the
extras.

> > Alternatively you could do some research on your own?
> > Or hope someone else here has brand/pricing/stockist details readily to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> faster, maybe not, but I also have a career and this is a hobby. My career
> get first priority - time wise.

And my work AND hobbies get priority over other peoples too.
I assume you expect to get paid for your career?
Are you really surprised that my time is just as important to me as yours is
to you?

> All taken care of, as I said. However, what are you doing here if your
> response to a request for information about something you initially brought
> up is to tell people to find the information elsewhere or "teach" for a
> fee? A little curmudgeonly of you it seems.

It seems I gave you sufficient information to find exactly what you were
after, which you admit you didn't know existed before.
Instead of thanking me, you complain that I didn't do ALL your research for
you.
I do have better things to do with my life than help ungrateful people you
know.

> > Not so unusual unfortunately. Most salesmen usually know nothing except what
> > they stock, and not very much even then.
>
> I suspect that they know enough to keep quiet about things that will not
> earn them as much income as selling new equipment.

That's why they don't bother to stock them in the first place. The sales
droids wouldn't know in any case.

> >> I did see an eBay auction that claimed to be selling a TTL converter
> >> for non TTL flashes with remote sensor inputs, but I didn't bid.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> capability with a Guide number approaching two hundred. That is very good,
> particularly if you like to use bounce flash in large rooms as I do.

Glad you got what you wanted, so maybe it's time to admit I did help you
after all?
Not that I really expected thanks, but the bitching seems a bit ungrateful
to me.

MrT.

Reply to this Message

clandestin_écureuil - 03 Jul 2008 11:13 GMT

>>>> How do you adapt the trigger voltage?
>>> Maybe with an adapter as I said?
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> after all?
> Not that I really expected thanks, but the bitching seems a bit ungrateful

Ok, Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. We have different
approaches to involvement in an online forum, I try to help when and if I
can. I would never make a post just to tell someone that I wasn't prepared
to help them.

Maybe you just had a bad day, maybe it is just your nature.

Secret Squirrel

Signature

Ingrid Rose

clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com

Reply to this Message

Mr.T - 03 Jul 2008 13:30 GMT

> Ok, Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. We have different
> approaches to involvement in an online forum, I try to help when and if I
> can. I would never make a post just to tell someone that I wasn't prepared
> to help them.
>
> Maybe you just had a bad day, maybe it is just your nature.

Maybe you just can't accept that I did help you.
Oh wait, your very first sentence contradicts the rest of your rant.

MrT.

Reply to this Message