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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / January 2008ACR NEF mistake?
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX. Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these files in PS or LTR. Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?  SignatureSosumi > When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That > is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Sosumi It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good job. The only gripe I have is that a slightly underexposed file will have a little more noise when processed in ACR, proper exposure, there is no problem. As to bracketing, ACR will show all brackets as will Bridge which I use as my original viewing program. I have been using ACR for the 2 years I have had my D200, tried Capture NX and decided, though it had some interesting features it didn't give much more than a well calibrated ACR. I have had excellent response to the work I have done with the D200. Tom > It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than > any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > a well calibrated ACR. I have had excellent response to the work I > have done with the D200. Sadly Capture NX is a major resource hog and isn't laid out for optimum workflow. NX does a nice job of processing RAW so much better than ACR, but isn't a practical solution. Even getting a free copy of NX with my D3, I still feel like I overpaid and was cheated. I would have preferred an AC adapter. For general purpose shooting ACR is the way to go. When you need some serious correction on an image you are better off with NX. Rita >> It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than >> any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > need > some serious correction on an image you are better off with NX. I agree, it's far too slow. On Windows it depends on the Framework NET stuff that should have been outlawed. The other night I had 66 pictures in a batch process just sharpened and saved again: 30 minutes at least! But some things are just so darn good in NX, that ACR just can't even come close. The control point is a very good example. The picture I made was of a "black rose"; one of the most difficult objects to make a good picture of. I made a multi exposure with auto gain, combined with auto bracketing. in total 9 pictures in one frame. The result just took my breath away; finally after trying with about 6 different dig. camera's and months and a lot of roses ;-) In NX View and Capture: no problem, but when I tried to open it in PS it was just another far too black and dark rose. I wanted to use some filters that are not possible in NX, so I ended up saving it as a TIFF and then I worked on it in PS. Mostly I zip thru my pictures and pick the ones that look good, which isn't that many on a given day, so I really don't have so much to change and adjust anymore. It would be a different story if I had to process hundreds of pics every day ;-) But I agree, Capture should be included with all Nikons, because it's virtually an extension of the camera. Maybe some they they'll turbo boost it and allow to use third party filters like the ones for PS. SignatureSosumi > When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That > is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe? Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file? >> When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. >> That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file? Combined with multiple exposure: yes! (oops: I wrote multi) Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't. SignatureSosumi >>> When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. >>> That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and > other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't. What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white balance. Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames. Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the same as if you weren't bracketing. There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a separate exposure as it normally would be. What are we missing here? Bob >>>> When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. >>>> That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > separate exposure as it normally would be. > What are we missing here? I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9 different exposures. After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not recognized by ACR. in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame picture: in ACR you don't have this information. SignatureSosumi >>>>> When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. >>>>> That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9 > different exposures. Why? Unless it's an HDR type composite, the exposures will just average out and the main difference would be less noise like people do for astro imaging, right? > After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in > PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not > recognized by ACR. > in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame > picture: in ACR you don't have this information. I wouldn't expect ACR know whatever tricks Nikon or any company does. That's not any sort of standard exif data. Those are NX features, not ACR features. >> What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white >> balance. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9 >different exposures. Assuming the D300 is the same as the D3, there is no such thing as "a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple exposures". You can use "exposure bracketing", which will give you 9 different images, each with a different exposure; or you can use "multiple exposures", which will give you 1 image made up of a combination from 9 separate exposures. If you first set bracketing, you can then set multiple exposures but it will automatically reset the bracketing to 0 frames. And if you first turn on multiple exposures, you cannot access bracketing to set it until multiple exposures is off. (You can further test that by setting bracketing to some non-zero value, then turn on multiple exposures followed by turning it off... and checking the bracketing again, which will now be 0F.) Hence I assume that what you actually have done is enabled multiple exposures, fired off 9 shots, and therefore have one NEF file generated from those 9 exposures. Is that correct? If you continued to make exposures after that, without changing either the bracketing or the multiple exposures, those options will both be OFF as of the 9th exposure above. Following exposures will generate their own NEF files, none of which will be either bracketed or made up of multiple exposures. Is that what you are getting? >After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in >PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not >recognized by ACR. I'm not specifically familiar with any of that software. It doesn't appear to actually be a software problem, other than perhaps one program is not showing you as much of the Exif data as the others. But that does *not* change what the images are. I take it that you are working with the NEF files produced. You should be able to convert them to an image format using virtually any RAW conversion software, and then save the resulting file in whatever format (JPEG, TIFF, PPM, etc) format you choose for further editing with PS. >in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame >picture: in ACR you don't have this information. Does that make any difference? That's just a matter of presentation of Exif data, not a difference in what the images are or are not. Here's a fairly simple test you can make to verify what you are getting. Do this with an empty CF card in the camera. 1) Set bracketing to 9 frames. 2) Set multiple exposures to 9 frames. 3) Make 8 exposures, and note that the light indicating that it is writing to the CF card does *not* go on. 4) Make the 9th exposure, and note that the light now goes on indicating that it is writing to the CF card. Wait for it to finish and the light to go off. 5) Check the bracketing, by pushing down the BKT button, and note that the display says 0F. 6) Make one more exposure, again noting that the light again goes on. Wait for the light to extinguish. You can now take the CF card out, and download the two images. If you have something like /exiftool/ to look at the Exif data you will discover that the first image indicates it was made with multiple exposures, while the second image was not, and that both images used exactly the same exposure (there was no bracketing). SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >>> What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white >>> balance. [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > second image was not, and that both images used exactly > the same exposure (there was no bracketing). Darn! You're right! I don't know how I screwed this up, but I could swear I had that combination. Specially since I finally got a very good shot with it. So I guess I'll try some "hand made" bracketing with multiple exposure. Since that does work, I wonder why it can not be used together? Someone told me it would not be any different than a single shot, but I'm thinking the camera might still get a little more dynamic range. What do you think? SignatureSosumi >> Here's a fairly simple test you can make to verify what >> you are getting. Do this with an empty CF card in the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >thinking the camera might still get a little more dynamic range. What do you >think? Well, what you apparently want (where you set both to 9, press the shutter release 9 times and each one has a different exposure setting, which are then all averaged to one frame), is not worth much. It either adds or averages all of the exposures. Changing some of them just doesn't make much difference if the average is still the same. That doesn't change the dynamic range in the sense that can be done by taking parts from one or parts from another, but it does expand dynamic range in a different way though. By reducing the amount of noise at the low end, which will not add up at the same linear rate that the light from the scene will. That gives you a higher Signal To Noise Ratio, which essentially means a more useful dynamic range. And that *really* does work too!. Try it two ways, first averaging, and then just adding. Set your camera (on a tripod) to its highest ISO and make an exposure of some place that has a lot of dim areas where noise will be very obvious. Then set it for multiple exposures and averaged 8 to 10 exposures. The difference in noise will be astounding. But now if you want to just blow your mind out... set it to add the exposures. Except now you have to do a bit of fiddling. If your ISO is set to 6400 and you added two exposures, that would be twice the light, so it would over expose by 1 fstop. Use manual exposure, and adjust the actual exposure down by an amount that depends on how many exposures you'll be adding. (I guess you could also use exposure compensation, and still use one of the programmed exposure settings.) To get the exposure right with the camera set for ISO 6400, set multiple exposures for 8... and then cut the actual exposure back by 3 fstops. Essentially you are not shooting ISO 6400, but at ISO 50,400. The noise however will be about equivalent of what you'd get at ISO 6400. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >Assuming the D300 is the same as the D3, there is no >such thing as "a combination of exposure bracketing with [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >on multiple exposures followed by turning it off... and >checking the bracketing again, which will now be 0F.) FWIW, The D300 does not state this, as it does in the D200 manual giving the impression bracketing may have been enabled. >Hence I assume that what you actually have done is >enabled multiple exposures, fired off 9 shots, and >therefore have one NEF file generated from those 9 >exposures. Is that correct? That would be my guess as well in either case. >If you continued to make exposures after that, without >changing either the bracketing or the multiple [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not >>recognized by ACR. >>in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame >>picture: in ACR you don't have this information. > >Does that make any difference? That's just a matter of >presentation of Exif data, not a difference in what the >images are or are not. I'm going to hazard a guess the difference is that NX will use the in camera settings as it's starting place while ACR does not. That is what gives the difference. |
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