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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / December 2007

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Montaged Panorama from images 3 days apart.

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Douglas - 09 Dec 2007 09:31 GMT
The idea of a panorama seems to have no "standard" aspect ratio. 16:9 is the
aspect ratio adopted by  many Japanese camera makers as a panorama but this
is by no means definitive. I use this 16:9 ratio to keep my panoramas a
constant, manageable ratio if nothing else. Like many others, I often
increase this when the need arrises.

I few years ago I shot a photo of a creek. I liked the picture but it left
me wondering what I'd missed so... A couple of days later when the lighting
looked similar, I went back and shot the "missing" component I needed for
the image.

This is the result:  http://www.douglasjames.com.au/Pano.htm.

the second image was "blended" into the first with the erase tool LOL!

Douglas
Douglas - 09 Dec 2007 23:42 GMT
Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
http://www.douglasjames.com.au/Pano.htm  (might need to hit the refresh
button) I also put in a line where the image had been joined. There is an
area near the motor of the yacht that needs work but the purpose of posting
the image was to obtain "photographer's" critical opinions. Not that
photographer's are my target aduence, mind you.

Whenever I have doubts about the pre-sale acceptance of one of my  images, I
post it to newsgroups and take account of what people who use cameras have
to say. In many, many instances critics of my work have been totally off
target. The most glaring example of this is  my pelicans at dusk shot on Nth
Stradbroke Island where critics were quite vocal about my "inapropriete" use
of flash... The print was a raging success sales wise.

I made a prelimnary print of this scene (not the exact one I've posted) for
opinion at the Gallery over the weekend. As a print, the requirements of
gamma (lightness/darkness) are dependent on many issues not directly related
to exposure of the scene which is why the one I posted looked "light" on a
monitor. Delicate is the word.

People "see" detail in shadow areas of a scene like this which cannot be
captured  with a camera. They also see detail in highlights past what a
camera can capture. In this case it "looked" pale but when finished with an
antique ivory frame and slightly darker matt to produce a "lightness" in the
whole picture, it looks entirely correct... Very watercolourish, you might
say. Certainly one that a lot of viewers though to be "very nice"... For a
free cup of coffee!!

I've always contended that dark decorations on a wall - such as you
suggested this picture needed and which I must say make a screen image look
"nicer", simply have too narrow a market for today's Interiour decoration
needs.

Anyway... Thanks for your civil input.

Douglas
-------------------------------
Doug Jewel wrote:

For what you are trying to demonstrate (panorama made with
images taken at substantially different times), then I guess
it's not a bad effort, although to be certain of how good
the merge is, it would be necessary to view it closer than a
low resolution internet image.

Personally though I think it is overexposed substantially.
If "_DUSK_ at wynnum creek" is the subject, then IMO the
image should portray the look of dusk, which is normally
done by underexposing slightly. As a dusk shot, the main
"subject" becomes the sky & water colours, not the boats and
trees in the background. The boats would become a supporting
subject to add interest. As your shot stands, it is a photo
of some boats, oh and hey, there is a bit of odd colour in
the sky so maybe it is dusk. A little less exposure would
add some "pop" to the water and sky colours and bring them
out as the main subject. If this means the trees go to
sillhouette, then so be it - they are a minor part of the
image. A little more cropping on the right wouldn't go
astray either.

When I first saw the shot, I wondered what was wrong with
the colour balance - it wasn't until I saw the description
"dusk at wynnum creek" that I realised it was a dusk shot. I
found by turning down my monitor brightness to the point
where I lost everything darker than 70 on your strip on your
home-page, that the image then had the pop that a dusk shot
should have (except for the big blob of bright white on the
left hand side). Note that at my normal monitor brightness I
can see every step on your test strip, so my monitor at
normal brightness should be similar to yours.

With less exposure, the shot wouldn't be too bad at all.

> This is the result:  http://www.douglasjames.com.au/Pano.htm.
>
> the second image was "blended" into the first with the erase tool LOL!
>
> Douglas
Annika1980 - 10 Dec 2007 01:16 GMT
> Whenever I have doubts about the pre-sale acceptance of one of my  images, I
> post it to newsgroups and take account of what people who use cameras have
> to say. In many, many instances critics of my work have been totally off
> target. The most glaring example of this is  my pelicans at dusk shot on Nth
> Stradbroke Island where critics were quite vocal about my "inapropriete" use
> of flash... The print was a raging success sales wise.

A "raging success?"  What is that ... two?
Annika1980 - 10 Dec 2007 01:19 GMT
> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:http://www.douglasjames.com.au/Pano.htm (might need to hit the refresh
> button) I also put in a line where the image had been joined.

OK, so you cleaned up the sky a bit (one wonders why you didn't do
that the first time).  So what's with the line? Is that another anti-
theft mechanism?  Damn, that is almost as annoying as plastering
"DOUGLAS ST. JAMES" right across the pic.
And you still haven't posted the pic at a size that would allow
serious critique.  But then you don't want that, do you?
Doug Jewell - 10 Dec 2007 09:17 GMT
> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the image was to obtain "photographer's" critical opinions. Not that
> photographer's are my target aduence, mind you.
Darn, can't see the original to compare!! But this does look
a bit better than how I remember last night's image.
Personally, I'd go a bit darker yet, but that's just
personal preference.
Douglas - 10 Dec 2007 09:43 GMT
>> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> than how I remember last night's image. Personally, I'd go a bit darker
> yet, but that's just personal preference.

The original: http://www.douglasjames.com.au/pano-creek.jpg

send me you email and I'll keep you up to speed on the "real" image- as in
the one I am printing for sale. 600mm high. It is intended to blend in with
water colour prints, framed pale, matted pale and well... basically pale.
Unless of course it all pales into insignificance!

Douglas
Pete D - 10 Dec 2007 10:19 GMT
>>> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>>> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Douglas

Condused say, why you want everyones email maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate???
Douglas - 10 Dec 2007 10:49 GMT
>>>> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>>>> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Condused say, why you want everyones email maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate???

No Pete. I have yours. I was replying to Doug Jewel who requires people to
ask for his addy.
Yours must be a very busy mail server mate! It keeps telling me 'no' is a
reserved name. It's great to be that important, isn't it? It must be to do
with the  "Peter Dee" thing you deny being. Maybe your name is really Peter
no?

Douglas
Pete D - 10 Dec 2007 19:30 GMT
>>>>> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>>>>> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Douglas
Yes Douglas my name is Peter, no tricking you hey? So send me an email
Einstien!
Draco - 10 Dec 2007 15:05 GMT
> > Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
> > suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Personally, I'd go a bit darker yet, but that's just
> personal preference.

I have to agree with Doug Jewell. The image would promote a better
"feeling" of dusk if printed a bit darker. Also the white of the boats
to the left(the yellow hulled sail and the small cabin crusier) could
be brought down a stop, so it wouldn't be an eye attraction. Competing
with the colors of the sky and reflections in the water is a
distraction to me.

 I hope you will remove that line from the image. I know you left it
to show where the splice was done. But half the fun of Panoramics is
doing them so you can't see the splicing.

Draco
Douglas - 10 Dec 2007 20:26 GMT
>> > Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>> > suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Draco

Please tell me Draco, what is it that attracts you to the image? Is it the
colours of the sky or the scene itself?

A Photographer who often sells his work has a similar scene but from a
different angle shot in bright light. It has blown highlights and a yellow
cast to it but it sells regularly.
http://www.craigtaylorphotography.com/files/2014644/uploaded/CTP-015%20.jpg

I'm very curious what it is people see in a photograph. At this point all I
know for sure is that about half the people who look at my work like it and
the other half walk away from it. I hoped the offer of a free cappuccino at
the gallery for an opinion would help but all it did was get a bunch of old
farts in for free coffee and although some were heard to make negative
remarks, all said they were lovely pictures! LOL. A fun day just the same.

Douglas
Draco - 10 Dec 2007 20:56 GMT
> >> > Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
> >> > suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Please tell me Draco, what is it that attracts you to the image? Is it the
> colours of the sky or the scene itself?

It is more than just the colors of the sky playing across the waters
or the angle the land is diaginal to the upright masts of the sail
boats or the placement of the right foward sail boat. It is the
feeling of rest at the end of a long day sailing. The peace of
enjoying a quiet moment over still waters. Being able to capture that
moment on an image is what makes a difference between a snap shooter
and an photographer.

> A Photographer who often sells his work has a similar scene but from a
> different angle shot in bright light. It has blown highlights and a yellow
> cast to it but it sells regularly.http://www.craigtaylorphotography.com/files/2014644/uploaded/CTP-015%...

Compared to the image you produced, this needs help. I do not like the
feel of it nor the washed out colors. The horizon is dead center in
this one. Even with the bit of a headland coming into view in the
upper left doesn't really help any. And people but this??

> I'm very curious what it is people see in a photograph. At this point all I
> know for sure is that about half the people who look at my work like it and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Douglas

I only offer my opinion on images I see. You made a claim that I was
an..what did you call me? An old man who spends his money on PC's and
nothing on photography. Well, every one is entitled to thier opinion.
You have your and I have mine. There it is and there it lays.

Oh yeah, I am cross posting because that is what I want.

Draco
Douglas - 10 Dec 2007 21:42 GMT
>> >> > Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>> >> > suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> Draco

You remind me of a old codger ( WW1 vet) in the nursing home my Grandfather
was in. He used to sit with his legs in such a way it would trip people with
sight problems. When I asked him why he did it he told me he was old enough
to do as he dammed well pleased and anyway... He chose to because nobody
could take away his thoughts. Sort of premature senility, I thought.

Remember your childhood Draco.... "Sticks and stones may break my bones but
names will never harm me". Just as you have a right to an opinion, so do I.
If they conflict, let's see which of us can afford the first missile and see
if we can find someone with enough brains to launch and guide it, shall we?

Have a happy Christmas Jim, lets hope next year is more civil than this one.

Douglas
Doug Jewell - 10 Dec 2007 21:46 GMT
>>>> Taking your suggestion Doug, I've posted a revised image with your
>>>> suggestion regarding gamma at the same address:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Please tell me Draco, what is it that attracts you to the image? Is it the
> colours of the sky or the scene itself?
For me, it would be the whole combination of scene/colours
etc. A straight "sunset over water" shot is usually a bit
boring, and needs a bit of a subject to liven it up, but at
the same time if that subject becomes overwhelming, you lose
the sunset appeal, and it just becomes a photo of the
subject. No offense intended, but just a bunch of boats
sitting in a creek is also a bit boring. It is my opinion
(and take note of that O word), that this photo would work
better if it was darkened a bit more, to give the "dusk"
aspect of it a bit greater impact, and lessen the impact of
the boats a little.

> A Photographer who often sells his work has a similar scene but from a
> different angle shot in bright light. It has blown highlights and a yellow
> cast to it but it sells regularly.
> http://www.craigtaylorphotography.com/files/2014644/uploaded/CTP-015%20.jpg
Does he really sell this image? I look at that, and think
"yuck". It doesn't attract me at all, but then I'm not a fan
 of "boats in a creek". Not that I would buy either, but if
I had to buy one, I'd buy your image over that one.

> I'm very curious what it is people see in a photograph. At this point all I
> know for sure is that about half the people who look at my work like it and
> the other half walk away from it. I hoped the offer of a free cappuccino at
> the gallery for an opinion would help but all it did was get a bunch of old
> farts in for free coffee and although some were heard to make negative
> remarks, all said they were lovely pictures! LOL. A fun day just the same.
Different strokes for different folks. And a bunch of
photographers are probably the worst to critique a shot. I
don't actively sell my photos - I take them for my enjoyment
only, but I have on occasion sold photos - A couple of times
I've been getting prints done, and other customers in the
photo lab have offered to purchase photos there on the spot.
Also I've had cases where friends and family have told their
friends about a particular shot I have, and so they have
purchased a copy.

But the funny thing is, the images which I have sold, are
ones that have been pulled to pieces when posted on a forum.
What's good to my eye, and what's good to some stranger in a
photolab's eye, is complete crap in the eye of someone else.

Anyway, here's a few of my pics - some recent, some not so
recent. Some are snapshots, some were trying to get a
specific look which I didn't quite pull off, and some I did
achieve what I was aiming for. Some I have sold, most I
haven't.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdaj/
Comments, positve and negative, welcome. (See if you can
work out which ones I sold).

> Douglas
 
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