Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / September 2007
Some New Pics
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MJW - 24 Sep 2007 08:23 GMT I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_1.JPG
www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_2.JPG
www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_3.JPG
All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to become a bit of a poser! :-)
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D-Mac - 24 Sep 2007 09:29 GMT >I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to > become a bit of a poser! :-) Nice stuff mate. The bunny is bit dull but most bunnies are! Otherwise it's good to see.
Have you got Photoshop? There's a few things you could do with it to increase the detail definition to suit web display but they print just fine as they are. I've always prefered pics ready to print rather than made for Internet display.
Doug
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:59 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Doug Thanks Doug! I'm using Paint Shop Pro 11 to do all my alterations. I think Photoshop is a little out of my depth at the moment!
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D-Mac - 25 Sep 2007 09:14 GMT >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thanks Doug! I'm using Paint Shop Pro 11 to do all my alterations. I think > Photoshop is a little out of my depth at the moment! The untold process to lift images like the bunny for Internet viewing is "levels" Even Photoshop Elements 2 which comes free with Canon DSLRs has the option to adjust the levels. It's an automatic process but none the less gets the levels up far enough to make plesant viewing. I'd imagine PSP would have a similar thing. You might get some joy with 'Gamma" too.
Anyway... If you'd like a copy of Photoshop Elements 2, I've got some unused ones here. Send me your addy and I'll post one to you. If you find the levels in PSP, let it go, eh?
Doug
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 06:53 GMT >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Doug Thanks for the offer & the advice Doug. Yes, PSP does have a "levels" option. I have not played around with it yet, I have been using "curve" adjustment to get a lighter or darker image.
Here is a list of what I do to get to my final image. Photoshop probably has all the equivalents, & some of the stuff I do I don't really understand what it is! 1- Highlight mid-tone & shadow 2- Curve adjustment 3- Clarify 4- Hue & Saturation adjustment 5- Resize 6- Sharpen 7- Add borders & save!
I have noticed that I always seem to lean towards a darker image, don't know why, probably just me!
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Avery - 24 Sep 2007 12:51 GMT >I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to >become a bit of a poser! :-) Love the butterfly Michael.
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:57 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Love the butterfly Michael. Thanks Avery! Was very hard to get a good shot of it. Had to stand on a plastic chair, manually focus, then lean back as far as I could so it became in focus, all without disturbing it!
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Noons - 24 Sep 2007 13:23 GMT > I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > > www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_1.JPG I take that one and rais you this one: http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0094at1280.jpg
:-) straight jpg off the camera, resized.
Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast (DMAC, you should know where that is?)
D-Mac - 24 Sep 2007 21:35 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast > (DMAC, you should know where that is?) Yeah... Memory lane stuff for me. I used to drive down from Brisbane in the good old days (the 70's) when Margie was a "hostie" with Ansett and buy peach pies there.
They had the greatest tasting pies. Oh man, they WERE the days... I had a side valve Simca V8. All 2.8 litres of it and used Graflex 4x5's for weddings!.
Those little buggers used to crap all over everything! Sort of like how Yankees do now. Nice picture mate. No, not just nice, excellent.
Doug
Noons - 25 Sep 2007 14:09 GMT > They had the greatest tasting pies. Oh man, they WERE the days... I had a > side valve Simca V8. All 2.8 litres of it and used Graflex 4x5's for > weddings!. Hehehe! Good to see you remember those days with a smile: man, hauling a Graflex! LOL! I carry a rb67 every once in a while and it's a true heavy weight. Good fun when needed but is it heavy!
> Those little buggers used to crap all over everything! Sort of like how > Yankees do now. Nice picture mate. No, not just nice, excellent. thanks. still learning the ropes of the d80, how to set it up, etc. that photo had a little bit too much constrast, I dialled it back a bit now and I like the results much better.
One of these days I'm gonna be able to get a proper photo of this little fella: http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0190_smaller.jpg slowly but sure... ;-)
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:54 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0094at1280.jpg > :-) Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-)
www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/3_Rainbows.JPG
Anyone got a full house?
> straight jpg off the camera, resized. Very nice picture Noons! I'm always impressed by good photography!
> Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast > (DMAC, you should know where that is?)
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Noons - 25 Sep 2007 13:57 GMT > Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-) > > www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/3_Rainbows.JPG Oh man! I love these little blighters, they always make my day! Thanks for posting that MJ, looks excellent!
> Anyone got a full house? your wish is my command: http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0097_smaller.jpg LOL!
> Very nice picture Noons! Thanks dude. I'm still learning to use the D80, still "poking" it out. All my experience is in film and scanning, the dslr world is a new thing for me. My digital past is with a coolpix and a borrowed 20d. Still sorting out the settings, how best to use the D80, where it is strong and weak, limits, etcetc. Good fun, though! And I haven't stopped taking film!
Annika1980 - 25 Sep 2007 16:47 GMT > your wish is my command Promise?
Noons - 26 Sep 2007 02:55 GMT > > your wish is my command > > Promise? I'm tallking to someone else, butt out you stupid f.ck.
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 06:58 GMT >> Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-) >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > where it is strong and weak, limits, etcetc. > Good fun, though! And I haven't stopped taking film! Great pics so far! Glad we could swap "Rainbows"!
 Signature >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<
D_Mac - 26 Sep 2007 09:36 GMT > I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<< I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me permission to put it on ryadia.com so you can see the difference and simplicity of it?
Doug
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 18:56 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Doug By all means, go ahead! If you also want to contact via email, its mjwyllie@optusnet.com.au
 Signature >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<
D-Mac - 26 Sep 2007 19:55 GMT >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > By all means, go ahead! If you also want to contact via email, its > mjwyllie@optusnet.com.au I hope this helps: http://www.ryadia.com/PFF/MJW-image-demo.htm
Doug
MJW - 27 Sep 2007 06:14 GMT >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Doug Wow. Big difference,eh? I'm gonna have to start mucking around with a few more settings! :-)
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mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 28 Sep 2007 12:04 GMT > >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<< Yes, well done Dougie. Sort of.
Could be even more useful with a bit more explanation, and a few cautions.
First, when you see thin dark or light halos around things, you have *over*sharpened! Note the Doug-bunny's right ear (his/her right, not yours) - see the obvious dark halo around it, and the whiskers? I'll grant that the original is already showing halos - maybe the camera has default sharpening set too high? But the extra sharpening has gone too far imo (I would try around 140%, 0.3 pixels, 3 levels in PS on this one, but it would be worth revisiting the fullsize original - I'm game if you are..). Downsizing and sharpening well is a black art..
Also, when adjusting levels/curves, you need to watch the image very closely (especially things like someone's head!) to ensure you don't lose valuable detail by blowing highlights (or shadows). The bunny's head is already showing 'burnt' areas in the original, and while the overall colour and contrast is fairly good (a bit orangey yellow, perhaps) Doug's level adjustment has made the burnt area worse, albeit slightly. You possibly need to go right back to the original image and see if there is more detail that can be retained. If there is (and I'll wager there is), with a bit of care you can make sure you don't lose it in post-processing. The bunny would still look like he had fur on his head, instead of white paint... I'll admit this image would be pretty challenging - it appears the metering/white balance was thrown by his little sunlit foot!, so even if we had the original it might be problematic. So credit to Doug for getting a passable version.
Overall, the changes look pretty good, but with a tiny bit more care it could be improved further. Trouble is, I'm not sure it's worth it on that shot.. (sorry, MJW!), but the principles apply elsewhere. And practice makes perfect.
Well, actually, no it doesn't. No image is ever perfect.. But once you stop trying or learning...
What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed, just abandoned.
D-Mac - 28 Sep 2007 22:22 GMT >> >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed, > just abandoned. And you tutorials are where? The link on your web site seems to be faulty... Or perhaps more ambitious that the creater's ability.
Doug
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 06:46 GMT > And you (sic) tutorials are where? Try and keep up, Doug. I said I would want to go back to the original image, which MJW has now very kindly posted. I'll put something together when I have time (maybe tonight, but more probably later).
He also pointed out he has PSP, which I am not familiar with. So a tutorial in PS may not be very useful. Your page did not show a tutorial either, it was just a picture with some rather cryptic statements. But kudos to you for having a go.
> The link on your web site seems to be faulty... ?? Who pointed to any link on my site? My website is not a commercial entity, it's a hobby thing. And at the moment I have much more important stuff to do, so it is rather stagnant. I do not advertise it, nor do I make any claims about it, nor did I bring it up... so why did you?
> Or perhaps more ambitious that (sic) the creater's (sic) ability. Get a spelling checker. With every day it becomes harder to read your missives...
And others have made the same comments about your version - it is interesting and somewhat useful, but you've oversharpened it, helped blow the highlights, and the colour is oddly orange in places. So maybe it isn't just me, and you should look again.
I'll be back later to post something, but it may be a while - I'm busy.
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 11:02 GMT Here: http://www.marktphoto.com/Bunnies.jpg
Refer to the new thread for details..
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:02 GMT Thanks Mark for taking the time to reply.
> Yes, well done Dougie. Sort of. I think, in Doug's defence, that it would be hard to rework an already worked picture. Is that correct?
> Could be even more useful with a bit more explanation, and a few > cautions. I have grabbed a copy of of Doug's image so I can see where to head with PSP. As I don't have Photoshop, I think a detailed explanation of things would be lost on me.
> First, when you see thin dark or light halos around things, you have > *over*sharpened! Note the Doug-bunny's right ear (his/her right, not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm game if you are..). Downsizing and sharpening well is a black > art.. I will post an original for you if you like.
> Also, when adjusting levels/curves, you need to watch the image very > closely (especially things like someone's head!) to ensure you don't [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > on that shot.. (sorry, MJW!), but the principles apply elsewhere. And > practice makes perfect. Penny is offended! :-)
> Well, actually, no it doesn't. No image is ever perfect.. But once > you stop trying or learning... > > What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed, > just abandoned. I'm still learning & all advice/critisism is always appreciated & taken on board!
 Signature >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<
Noons - 27 Sep 2007 07:04 GMT > >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Doug I wonder if the great "contributor" and "helper of beginners", whatshisname Brett-the-troll-Douglas, is reading this? He might learn what providing information is all about. Ah well, who cares?
D-Mac - 27 Sep 2007 07:38 GMT >> >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > information is all about. Ah well, > who cares? Give him his dues Noons, he once posted information about how to.... Er, What was it now?... Oh yeah. Sorry. Nothing about photography after all!
Doug
Noons - 27 Sep 2007 14:44 GMT > Give him his dues Noons, he once posted information about how to.... Er, > What was it now?... Oh yeah. yeah, the "who rules" crap of an obviously insecure and demented retard.
> Sorry. > Nothing about photography after all! Amen!
Jeff R. - 29 Sep 2007 04:22 GMT >>> I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended >>> to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Doug Yes, but why?
The original shows a bunny standing in the cool shade in his hutch (?) striking a cute pose.
The "improved" version has completely lost that feeling of coolness, or shade. It is arguably(?) a better "studio" or "technical" result, but has lost the ambience of the original. The fence (hutch wall?) in the background has lost its "background" status and has jumped into the foreground, using its enhanced contrast and detail to fight for supremacy with the subject bunny. The overall composition isn't improved when the background is made distractingly obvious. My monitor and PS both suggest there is detail loss on bunny's head.
"Improvements" should not be made without first giving a bit of thought to the subject matter, and to the _feeling_ of the image.
Whilst it may be argued (and I wouldn't agree) that the second image shows some technical improvements, I still prefer the original.
Heaven protect us all from the day when all photographs exhibit ideal dynamic range, perfect colour/tone contrast, enhanced saturation and pin-sharp resolution (albeit surrounded by haloes).
=======
Another case in point; Max Dupain's "Sunbather".
First, it's difficult to find a faithful depiction of this icon of Aussie photography on the net.
Witness:
http://www.art-galleries-schubert.com.au/www/dupain/Sunbather.htm marketed as an "art" print yet (at least online) reduced to an insulting blancmange of grey slop. I hope the actual print is a lot better.
--or--
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20895457-2,00.html with contrast bumped up so high that half the shot is burned out. I imagine Max would be rolling in his grave.
I'm guessing (but cannot verify) that the original is halfway between the two, neither muddy nor burnt out.
The Moral?
Unless you're producing a catalogue or a textbook, go easy on the PS magic. Maybe the original would be better off left as is. The bunny would be.
As I look out of the window at my garden, I see deep shaded areas punctuated by dappled, yet bright spots of unattenuated sunlight. To my eyes, the bright bits are washed out and completely detail-free. (I imagine I see little dialog boxes saying [255,255,255] floating around them) Are my eyes faulty? Would a HDR composite image of my backyard be a more faithful, or "true-to-life" depiction of what I am seeing?
Photoshop is a very powerful and easy-to-use imaging tool. Its even easier to *overuse* it in an attempt to boost the WOW factor. Determining when to back off and leave well enough alone is a difficult to acquire skill, yet it is infinitely more valuable than just knowing how to slide a slider to the right.
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
-- Jeff R.
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:35 GMT >>>> I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended >>>> to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > -- > Jeff R. Thanks for your comments, Jeff! I do want to improve my images, but am always a bit wary of going too far! Will keep reading & learning & experimenting, I guess!
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Jeff R. - 30 Sep 2007 03:27 GMT >> A little learning is a dangerous thing. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > always a bit wary of going too far! Will keep reading & learning & > experimenting, I guess! Welcome, MJ. I guess my summary point should be: don't do it just because you _can_.
That's a lovely bunny shot. Cute as hell.
-- Jeff R.
Terryc - 29 Sep 2007 05:03 GMT > I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! Yep.
2c, i understand what you are doing with the borders,but that red and yellow was really bad on the eyes. Try a % tone rather than full tone.
can your apps allow you to have multiple borders.
SWMBO does this trick with cardboard in cards she makes from prints. She has the eye for it. Sometimes, picking the obvious colour isn't the best.
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:09 GMT >> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > SWMBO does this trick with cardboard in cards she makes from prints. She > has the eye for it. Sometimes, picking the obvious colour isn't the best. Haha, I think I know what you mean Terry. I don't put a lot of thought into the framing, just go with whatever the subjects main colouring is.
Multiple borders? I have 3 on each pic. I normally go, Black, Colour, Black. Is that what you mean?
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