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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / September 2007

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Some New Pics

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MJW - 24 Sep 2007 08:23 GMT
I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!

www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_1.JPG

www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_2.JPG

www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_3.JPG

All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to
become a bit of a poser! :-)
Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

D-Mac - 24 Sep 2007 09:29 GMT
>I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to
> become a bit of a poser! :-)

Nice stuff mate. The bunny is bit dull but most bunnies are!
Otherwise it's good to see.

Have you got Photoshop? There's a few things you could do with it to
increase the detail definition to suit web display but they print just fine
as they are. I've always prefered pics ready to print rather than made for
Internet display.

Doug
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:59 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Doug

Thanks Doug! I'm using Paint Shop Pro 11 to do all my alterations. I
think Photoshop is a little out of my depth at the moment!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

D-Mac - 25 Sep 2007 09:14 GMT
>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Thanks Doug! I'm using Paint Shop Pro 11 to do all my alterations. I think
> Photoshop is a little out of my depth at the moment!

The untold process to lift images like the bunny for Internet viewing is
"levels" Even Photoshop Elements 2 which comes free with Canon DSLRs has the
option to adjust the levels. It's an automatic process but none the less
gets the levels up far enough to make plesant viewing. I'd imagine PSP would
have a similar thing. You might get some joy with 'Gamma" too.

Anyway... If you'd like a copy of Photoshop Elements 2, I've got some unused
ones here. Send me your addy and I'll post one to you. If you find the
levels in PSP, let it go, eh?

Doug
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 06:53 GMT
>>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Doug

Thanks for the offer & the advice Doug. Yes, PSP does have a "levels"
option. I have not played around with it yet, I have been using "curve"
adjustment to get a lighter or darker image.

Here is a list of what I do to get to my final image. Photoshop probably
has all the equivalents, & some of the stuff I do I don't really
understand what it is!
1- Highlight mid-tone & shadow
2- Curve adjustment
3- Clarify
4- Hue & Saturation adjustment
5- Resize
6- Sharpen
7- Add borders & save!

I have noticed that I always seem to lean towards a darker image, don't
know why, probably just me!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Avery - 24 Sep 2007 12:51 GMT
>I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>All of these were taken in my back-yard. My little rabbit is starting to
>become a bit of a poser! :-)

Love the butterfly Michael.
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:57 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Love the butterfly Michael.

Thanks Avery! Was very hard to get a good shot of it. Had to stand on a
plastic chair, manually focus, then lean back as far as I could so it
became in focus, all without disturbing it!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Noons - 24 Sep 2007 13:23 GMT
> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
> www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/Temp_1.JPG

I take that one and rais you this one:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0094at1280.jpg
:-)
straight jpg off the camera, resized.

Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast
(DMAC, you should know where that is?)
D-Mac - 24 Sep 2007 21:35 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast
> (DMAC, you should know where that is?)

Yeah... Memory lane stuff for me.
I used to drive down from Brisbane in the good old days (the 70's) when
Margie was a "hostie" with Ansett and buy peach pies there.

They had the greatest tasting pies. Oh man, they WERE the days... I had a
side valve Simca V8. All 2.8 litres of it and used Graflex  4x5's for
weddings!.

Those little buggers used to crap all over everything! Sort of like how
Yankees do now. Nice picture mate. No, not just nice, excellent.

Doug
Noons - 25 Sep 2007 14:09 GMT
> They had the greatest tasting pies. Oh man, they WERE the days... I had a
> side valve Simca V8. All 2.8 litres of it and used Graflex  4x5's for
> weddings!.

Hehehe!  Good to see you  remember those days
with a smile: man, hauling a Graflex!  LOL!
I carry a rb67 every once in a while and it's
a true heavy weight.  Good fun when needed
but is it heavy!

> Those little buggers used to crap all over everything! Sort of like how
> Yankees do now. Nice picture mate. No, not just nice, excellent.

thanks.  still learning the ropes of the d80,
how to set it up, etc.  that photo had a little bit too
much constrast, I dialled it back a bit now and
I like the results much better.

One of these days I'm gonna be able to get a proper
photo of this little fella:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0190_smaller.jpg
slowly but sure...
;-)
MJW - 25 Sep 2007 07:54 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0094at1280.jpg
> :-)

Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-)

www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/3_Rainbows.JPG

Anyone got a full house?

> straight jpg off the camera, resized.

Very nice picture Noons! I'm always impressed by good photography!

> Currumbin wildlife sanctuary in the Gold Coast
> (DMAC, you should know where that is?)

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Noons - 25 Sep 2007 13:57 GMT
> Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-)
>
> www.members.optusnet.com.au/mjwyllie/3_Rainbows.JPG

Oh man!  I love these little blighters, they always make my day!
Thanks for posting that MJ, looks excellent!

> Anyone got a full house?

your wish is my command:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/_DSC0097_smaller.jpg
LOL!

> Very nice picture Noons!

Thanks dude.  I'm still learning to use the
D80, still "poking" it out.  All my experience is in
film and scanning, the dslr world is a new thing for me.
My digital past is with a coolpix and a borrowed 20d.
Still sorting out the settings, how best to use the D80,
where it is strong and weak, limits, etcetc.
Good fun, though!  And I haven't stopped taking film!
Annika1980 - 25 Sep 2007 16:47 GMT
> your wish is my command

Promise?
Noons - 26 Sep 2007 02:55 GMT
> > your wish is my command
>
> Promise?

I'm tallking to someone else, butt out you stupid f.ck.
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 06:58 GMT
>> Ok then, I have 3 of a kind! :-)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> where it is strong and weak, limits, etcetc.
> Good fun, though!  And I haven't stopped taking film!

Great pics so far! Glad we could swap "Rainbows"!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

D_Mac - 26 Sep 2007 09:36 GMT
> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> --
>     >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended
to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me
permission to put it on ryadia.com so you can see the difference and
simplicity of it?

Doug
MJW - 26 Sep 2007 18:56 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Doug

By all means, go ahead! If you also want to contact via email, its
mjwyllie@optusnet.com.au

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

D-Mac - 26 Sep 2007 19:55 GMT
>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> By all means, go ahead! If you also want to contact via email, its
> mjwyllie@optusnet.com.au

I hope this helps:
http://www.ryadia.com/PFF/MJW-image-demo.htm

Doug
MJW - 27 Sep 2007 06:14 GMT
>>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Doug

Wow. Big difference,eh? I'm gonna have to start mucking around with a
few more settings! :-)

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 28 Sep 2007 12:04 GMT
> >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> --
>     >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Yes, well done Dougie.  Sort of.

Could be even more useful with a bit more explanation, and a few
cautions.

First, when you see thin dark or light halos around things, you have
*over*sharpened!  Note the Doug-bunny's right ear (his/her right, not
yours) - see the obvious dark halo around it, and the whiskers?  I'll
grant that the original is already showing halos - maybe the camera
has default sharpening set too high?  But the extra sharpening has
gone too far imo (I would try around 140%, 0.3 pixels, 3 levels in PS
on this one, but it would be worth revisiting the fullsize original -
I'm game if you are..).  Downsizing and sharpening well is a black
art..

Also, when adjusting levels/curves, you need to watch the image very
closely (especially things like someone's head!) to ensure you don't
lose valuable detail by blowing highlights (or shadows).  The bunny's
head is already showing 'burnt' areas in the original, and while the
overall colour and contrast is fairly good (a bit orangey yellow,
perhaps) Doug's level adjustment has made the burnt area worse, albeit
slightly.  You possibly need to go right back to the original image
and see if there is more detail that can be retained.  If there is
(and I'll wager there is), with a bit of care you can make sure you
don't lose it in post-processing.  The bunny would still look like he
had fur on his head, instead of white paint...  I'll admit this image
would be pretty challenging - it appears the metering/white balance
was thrown by his little sunlit foot!, so even if we had the original
it might be problematic.  So credit to Doug for getting a passable
version.

Overall, the changes look pretty good, but with a tiny bit more care
it could be improved further.  Trouble is, I'm not sure it's worth it
on that shot.. (sorry, MJW!), but the principles apply elsewhere.  And
practice makes perfect.

Well, actually, no it doesn't.  No image is ever perfect..  But once
you stop trying or learning...

What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed,
just abandoned.
D-Mac - 28 Sep 2007 22:22 GMT
>> >>>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed,
> just abandoned.

And you tutorials are where?
The link on your web site seems to be faulty... Or perhaps more ambitious
that the creater's ability.

Doug
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 06:46 GMT
> And you (sic) tutorials are where?
Try and keep up, Doug.  I said I would want to go back to the original
image, which MJW has now very kindly posted.  I'll put something
together when I have time (maybe tonight, but more probably later).

He also pointed out he has PSP, which I am not familiar with.  So a
tutorial in PS may not be very useful.  Your page did not show a
tutorial either, it was just a picture with some rather cryptic
statements.  But kudos to you for having a go.

> The link on your web site seems to be faulty...
??  Who pointed to any link on my site?  My website is not a
commercial entity, it's a hobby thing.  And at the moment I have much
more important stuff to do, so it is rather stagnant.  I do not
advertise it, nor do I make any claims about it, nor did I bring it
up... so why did you?

> Or perhaps more ambitious that (sic) the creater's (sic) ability.

Get a spelling checker.  With every day it becomes harder to read your
missives...

And others have made the same comments about your version - it is
interesting and somewhat useful, but you've oversharpened it, helped
blow the highlights, and the colour is oddly orange in places.  So
maybe it isn't just me, and you should look again.

I'll be back later to post something, but it may be a while - I'm busy.
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 11:02 GMT
Here:
http://www.marktphoto.com/Bunnies.jpg

Refer to the new thread for details..
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:02 GMT
Thanks Mark for taking the time to reply.

> Yes, well done Dougie.  Sort of.

I think, in Doug's defence, that it would be hard to rework an already
worked picture. Is that correct?

> Could be even more useful with a bit more explanation, and a few
> cautions.

I have grabbed a copy of of Doug's image so I can see where to head with
PSP. As I don't have Photoshop, I think a detailed explanation of things
would be lost on me.

> First, when you see thin dark or light halos around things, you have
> *over*sharpened!  Note the Doug-bunny's right ear (his/her right, not
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I'm game if you are..).  Downsizing and sharpening well is a black
> art..

I will post an original for you if you like.

> Also, when adjusting levels/curves, you need to watch the image very
> closely (especially things like someone's head!) to ensure you don't
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> on that shot.. (sorry, MJW!), but the principles apply elsewhere.  And
> practice makes perfect.

Penny is offended! :-)

> Well, actually, no it doesn't.  No image is ever perfect..  But once
> you stop trying or learning...
>
> What's that saying? - A true work of art is never truly completed,
> just abandoned.

I'm still learning & all advice/critisism is always appreciated & taken
on board!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Noons - 27 Sep 2007 07:04 GMT
> >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Doug

I wonder if the great "contributor"
and "helper of beginners", whatshisname
Brett-the-troll-Douglas, is reading
this? He might learn what providing
information is all about.  Ah well,
who cares?
D-Mac - 27 Sep 2007 07:38 GMT
>> >>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> information is all about.  Ah well,
> who cares?

Give him his dues Noons, he once posted information about how to.... Er,
What was it now?... Oh yeah.
Sorry.
Nothing about photography after all!

Doug
Noons - 27 Sep 2007 14:44 GMT
> Give him his dues Noons, he once posted information about how to.... Er,
> What was it now?... Oh yeah.

yeah, the "who rules" crap of an obviously
insecure and demented retard.

> Sorry.
> Nothing about photography after all!

Amen!
Jeff R. - 29 Sep 2007 04:22 GMT
>>> I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended
>>> to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Doug

Yes, but why?

The original shows a bunny standing in the cool shade in his hutch (?)
striking a cute pose.

The "improved" version has completely lost that feeling of coolness, or
shade. It is arguably(?) a better "studio" or "technical" result, but has
lost the ambience of the original. The fence (hutch wall?) in the background
has lost its "background" status and has jumped into the foreground, using
its enhanced contrast and detail to fight for supremacy with the subject
bunny.  The overall composition isn't improved when the background is made
distractingly obvious.  My monitor and PS both suggest there is detail loss
on bunny's head.

"Improvements" should not be made without first giving a bit of thought to
the subject matter, and to the _feeling_ of the image.

Whilst it may be argued (and I wouldn't agree) that the second image shows
some technical improvements, I still prefer the original.

Heaven protect us all from the day when all photographs exhibit ideal
dynamic range, perfect colour/tone contrast, enhanced saturation and
pin-sharp resolution (albeit surrounded by haloes).

=======

Another case in point; Max Dupain's "Sunbather".

First, it's difficult to find a faithful depiction of this icon of Aussie
photography on the net.

Witness:

http://www.art-galleries-schubert.com.au/www/dupain/Sunbather.htm
marketed as an "art" print yet (at least online) reduced to an insulting
blancmange of grey slop.  I hope the actual print is a lot better.

--or--

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20895457-2,00.html
with contrast bumped up so high that half the shot is burned out.  I imagine
Max would be rolling in his grave.

I'm guessing (but cannot verify) that the original is halfway between the
two, neither muddy nor burnt out.

The Moral?

Unless you're producing a catalogue or a textbook, go easy on the PS magic.
Maybe the original would be better off left as is.  The bunny would be.

As I look out of the window at my garden, I see deep shaded areas punctuated
by dappled, yet bright spots of unattenuated sunlight.  To my eyes, the
bright bits are washed out and completely detail-free. (I imagine I see
little dialog boxes saying [255,255,255] floating around them)  Are my eyes
faulty?  Would a HDR composite image of my backyard be a more faithful, or
"true-to-life" depiction of what I am seeing?

Photoshop is a very powerful and easy-to-use imaging tool.  Its even easier
to *overuse* it in an attempt to boost the WOW factor.  Determining when to
back off and leave well enough alone is a difficult to acquire skill, yet it
is infinitely more valuable than just knowing how to slide a slider to the
right.

A little learning is a dangerous thing.

--
Jeff R.
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:35 GMT
>>>> I have a quick and dirty tutorial I made from your rabbit. I intended
>>>> to email it to you buy your email addy is a dud. Will you give me
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> --
> Jeff R.

Thanks for your comments, Jeff! I do want to improve my images, but am
always a bit wary of going too far! Will keep reading & learning &
experimenting, I guess!

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

Jeff R. - 30 Sep 2007 03:27 GMT
>> A little learning is a dangerous thing.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> always a bit wary of going too far! Will keep reading & learning &
> experimenting, I guess!

Welcome, MJ.
I guess my summary point should be: don't do it just because you _can_.

That's a lovely bunny shot.  Cute as hell.

--
Jeff R.
Terryc - 29 Sep 2007 05:03 GMT
> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!

Yep.

2c, i understand what you are doing with the borders,but that red and
yellow was really bad on the eyes. Try a % tone rather than full tone.

can your apps allow you to have multiple borders.

SWMBO does this trick with cardboard in cards she makes from prints. She
has the eye for it. Sometimes, picking the obvious colour isn't the best.
MJW - 30 Sep 2007 02:09 GMT
>> I have 3 new pictures to show for any one who's interested!
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> SWMBO does this trick with cardboard in cards she makes from prints. She
> has the eye for it. Sometimes, picking the obvious colour isn't the best.

Haha, I think I know what you mean Terry. I don't put a lot of thought
into the framing, just go with whatever the subjects main colouring is.

Multiple borders? I have 3 on each pic. I normally go, Black, Colour,
Black. Is that what you mean?

Signature

   >>>M.J.Wyllie.<<<

 
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