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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / March 2007Sony announces H7 and H9 cameras
Hi All, Sony has announced the new H7 and H9 cameras: http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=907 Cheers, Wayne  SignatureWayne J. Cosshall Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/ Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/ They look nice, but I'll need to learn more about the nightshot feature, and whether or not it was slightly handicapped like the older Sony cams. It also appears that Sony has a slightly larger sensor in these cams, at 1/1.7". Lower noise, hopefully? > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Wayne > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker,http://www.dimagemaker.com/ > Bloghttp://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/ Welcome to last week..... Kinga K202 > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker,http://www.dimagemaker.com/ > Bloghttp://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/ more pixles in the same sensor size means more and more noise garbage upon garbage dalimoh > more pixles in the same sensor size means more and more noise All else being equal, which it never is though. Amazing how most DSLR manufacturers have managed to increase pixel count over the years, AND lower noise. Isn't technology wonderful the way it keeps improving. MrT. > <dali...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > MrT. DSLR is different because it has larger sensor, thats why noise is not an issue for DSLR dalimoh > DSLR is different because it has larger sensor, thats why noise is not > an issue for DSLR Noise is ALWAYS an issue, it's just the amount that changes. But I would certainly love a noiseless DSLR at 3200 ISO :-) MrT. > <dalimoh@gmail.com> wrote in message > > DSLR is different because it has larger sensor, thats why noise is not > > an issue for DSLR > > Noise is ALWAYS an issue, it's just the amount that changes. That is why Sony uses a larger sensor AND in-camera postprocessing in the H7 & H9 to drastically reduce color noise. SignaturePardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://rhodyman.net > > Noise is ALWAYS an issue, it's just the amount that changes. > > That is why Sony uses a larger sensor AND in-camera postprocessing in > the H7 & H9 to drastically reduce color noise. I would never want in camera post processing myself, but each to their own. (dark frame noise removal can still be done in computer where you can make the choices rather than the camera) Good for technophobe photographers though I guess. MrT. >>> Noise is ALWAYS an issue, it's just the amount that changes. >> That is why Sony uses a larger sensor AND in-camera postprocessing in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MrT. I think most camera manufacturers would disagree with you. In camera dark frame subtraction is pretty common in good DSLR cameras to extend the useful high ISO function of the camera, and can not be done as well outside the camera. > I think most camera manufacturers would disagree with you. Naturally, they want you to believe it makes their camera somehow special. >In camera > dark frame subtraction is pretty common in good DSLR cameras to extend > the useful high ISO function of the camera, and can not be done as well > outside the camera. Of course it can, what makes you think the crappy computer in the camera can do anything a real computer can't? MrT. >> I think most camera manufacturers would disagree with you. > > Naturally, they want you to believe it makes their camera somehow special. Not special, just sensible. >>In camera >> dark frame subtraction is pretty common in good DSLR cameras to extend >> the useful high ISO function of the camera, and can not be done as well >> outside the camera. Dark frame subtraction isn't about high ISO, it's about longer exposures at any ISO. > Of course it can, what makes you think the crappy computer in the camera > can > do anything a real computer can't? Well, it _could_ be done outside the camera. But it would be seriously dumb to do it outside the camera. The operation itself is a trivial subtraction operation, and to do it on the computer you'd have to store two full raw frames for each image. And read them onto your computer and do the work there. Work that could have been done trivially when the image is taken. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan > Well, it _could_ be done outside the camera. > > But it would be seriously dumb to do it outside the camera. If your camera doesn't have that feature, it would be seriously dumb to think you can't do it at all. >The operation > itself is a trivial subtraction operation, and to do it on the computer > you'd have to store two full raw frames for each image. And read them onto > your computer and do the work there. Work that could have been done > trivially when the image is taken. As with every tool, it all depends on the circumstances. Sometimes in camera processing is the most convenient for sure. There are times when shooting lots of photo's and one or two dark frames is quicker than doing a dark frame for every shot though, assuming your camera even has that feature. However I never said that the in camera method wasn't useful, just that I would not buy a particular camera simply because that was an advertising feature. MrT. > I would never want in camera post processing myself, but each to their own. > (dark frame noise removal can still be done in computer where you can make > the choices rather than the camera) With Sony you have the choice of doing it quickly in the camera or doing it in your computer if you use .raw. It doesn't work nearly as well without raw. SignaturePardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://rhodyman.net > With Sony you have the choice of doing it quickly in the camera or doing > it in your computer if you use .raw. It doesn't work nearly as well > without raw. Of course, I hadn't even considered you might think otherwise. MrT. > > With Sony you have the choice of doing it quickly in the camera or doing > > it in your computer if you use .raw. It doesn't work nearly as well > > without raw. > Of course, I hadn't even considered you might think otherwise. Then why did you say: > I would never want in camera post processing myself. It is like about 90% of the features on the camera. They are there if you want them but you never need them, you can ignore them. The reason I buy a camera is because of the features I want, not because it doesn't have the ones I don't want. Why would you mention a feature you don't want. It doesn't affect anything. Some people do want it. SignaturePardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://rhodyman.net > Then why did you say: >> I would never want in camera post processing myself. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reason I buy a camera is because of the features I want, not because > it doesn't have the ones I don't want. This camera (H9) answers 90% of any objections I have ever had about my H5. I'm not going to buy one because of simple basic features it doesn't have that I deem essential. For example, it has no way to use an external (off camera) flash. No hot shoe. No PC connector, much less TTL metering. I'm astonished that they would make a $500 camera and leave off a simple $0.25 connector! This is one where the entire marketing dept. should have been fired outright! JB > > > With Sony you have the choice of doing it quickly in the camera or doing > > > it in your computer if you use .raw. It doesn't work nearly as well [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Then why did you say: > > I would never want in camera post processing myself. Yep, that's me, happy to shoot RAW and post process in computer. You get to make your own choices. > It is like about 90% of the features on the camera. They are there if > you want them but you never need them, you can ignore them. The reason > I buy a camera is because of the features I want, not because it doesn't > have the ones I don't want. Why would you mention a feature you don't > want. It doesn't affect anything. Some people do want it. And where did I say otherwise? However the OP (you? cant remember) seemed to think it was some big deal I should be impressed by. MrT. > However the OP (you? cant remember) seemed to think it was some big deal I > should be impressed by. The context was that digital speed led to color noise so the new Sony H7 & H9 would be worthless for their targeted market, sports photography. The reply was that Sony addressed the problem by increasing the sensor size and adding inbox noise reduction. NO BIG DEAL. JUST A CONVERSATION. I think they did an excellent job to make a product for their target market. In fact, if I didn't have the DiMage Z5 I would be in the market for these new cameras. The one drawback with the Z5 is color noise at high-speed/low-light conditions. As you point out, it can be filtered in post processing, but that is a pain sometimes when one has lots of shots that need to be ready immediately. These new cameras give that option. Apparently you are not in their target market. NO BIG DEAL. SignaturePardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://rhodyman.net > more pixles in the same sensor size means more and more noise > > garbage upon garbage That is why they use a larger sensor. Goodies upon goodies. SignaturePardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://rhodyman.net > Hi All, > > Sony has announced the new H7 and H9 cameras: > http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=907 Never mind the toys, when are they bringing out a proper DSLR?? > Never mind the toys, when are they bringing out a proper DSLR?? You mean besides the existing rebadged ones, or do you mean the KM's were not "proper" DSLR's? MrT. >> Never mind the toys, when are they bringing out a proper DSLR?? > > You mean besides the existing rebadged ones, or do you mean the KM's were > not "proper" DSLR's? I mean the equivelent of a 9D that KM never managed to produce. |
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