Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / March 2007
Canon Just announced the EOS-1D Mark III
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Wayne J. Cosshall - 22 Feb 2007 04:09 GMT Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just coming through: http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=893
Cheers,
Wayne
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Paul Rubin - 22 Feb 2007 04:16 GMT > Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just > coming through: > http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=893 Nice, 10 fps and 300,000 frame shutter life, it's designed to shoot for about 8.3 hours without breaking ;-).
Lionel - 22 Feb 2007 04:42 GMT >Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >coming through: >http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=893 Yow! Interesting.
Looks like you're 1st with the news. Well done, Wayne. :)
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Lionel - 22 Feb 2007 04:47 GMT >>Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>coming through: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Looks like you're 1st with the news. Well done, Wayne. :) Well, you beat DPReview by about 20 minutes. :)
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Wayne J. Cosshall - 22 Feb 2007 04:49 GMT >>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well, you beat DPReview by about 20 minutes. :) Well that is impressive if I beat them.
Cheers,
Wayne
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Lionel - 22 Feb 2007 05:24 GMT >>>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >Well that is impressive if I beat them. When it comes to Canon announcements, 20 minutes is pretty damn good. ;)
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kosh - 23 Feb 2007 08:26 GMT >>>>>Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>>>>coming through: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > When it comes to Canon announcements, 20 minutes is pretty damn good. > ;) I think I can beat that... .I've held one!!! for about 2 seconds... but!!!
kosh
ink - 23 Feb 2007 12:01 GMT "kosh" <akoshn@spamhotmail.com> wrote...
>>>>>>Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>>>>>coming through: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I think I can beat that... .I've held one!!! for about 2 seconds... but!!! Did you take pictures with it? I mean... that's what it's for, ya know?
Cheers, ink
Ken Lucke - 22 Feb 2007 04:52 GMT > >Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just > >coming through: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Looks like you're 1st with the news. Well done, Wayne. :) So, any word on a 1Ds Mark III ??? :^)
(I've budgeted for a 1Ds Mark II or whatever is top-o-the-line FF this year. Waiting anxiously to see if there's gonna be a new 1Ds version)
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Wayne J. Cosshall - 22 Feb 2007 05:05 GMT >>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (I've budgeted for a 1Ds Mark II or whatever is top-o-the-line FF this > year. Waiting anxiously to see if there's gonna be a new 1Ds version) Doesn't look like it yet. We won't know till the press releases arrive in my (or anyone else's) inbox.
Cheers,
Wayne
 Signature Wayne J. Cosshall Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/ Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
Lionel - 22 Feb 2007 05:30 GMT >> >Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >> >coming through: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >So, any word on a 1Ds Mark III ??? :^) Not yet. I took a look at Canon's Japanese site, but they haven't even announced the 1DMk3 yet.
>(I've budgeted for a 1Ds Mark II or whatever is top-o-the-line FF this >year. Waiting anxiously to see if there's gonna be a new 1Ds version) Well, if the 1Ds3 has all the new features of the 1DMk3, it'll be worth the wait. :)
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Mr.T - 22 Feb 2007 06:48 GMT > So, any word on a 1Ds Mark III ??? :^) > > (I've budgeted for a 1Ds Mark II or whatever is top-o-the-line FF this > year. Waiting anxiously to see if there's gonna be a new 1Ds version) Of course there will be, but anybody's guess when. So which will be next, a 30D replacement or the 1DSmkII replacement? :-)
MrT.
Paul Rubin - 22 Feb 2007 07:01 GMT > Of course there will be, but anybody's guess when. > So which will be next, a 30D replacement or the 1DSmkII replacement? :-) I thought the 40D was already announced and it was the usual evolutionary improvement in the series. I'm much more interested in hearing about the 5D replacement.
Mr.T - 22 Feb 2007 07:14 GMT > I thought the 40D was already announced and it was the usual > evolutionary improvement in the series. Is it? Sorry must have missed it. And of course it will be the usual evolutionary improvement, I would basically expect a more rugged 400D.
>I'm much more interested in hearing about the 5D replacement. I think you will be waiting a bit longer for that. I think a 1DSmkIII will surely be first.
MrT.
Paul Rubin - 22 Feb 2007 07:39 GMT > Is it? Sorry must have missed it. And of course it will be the usual > evolutionary improvement, Yeah I think you're right, it wasn't a formal announcement. I don't follow Canon news that closely. But here's a mention:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/22/canon-EOS-40d-on-the-way/
> I would basically expect a more rugged 400D. Yeah, I don't much see the point of the 20D-30D-40D series for most users. I'd go 400D -> 5D or EOS-1-whatever.
> >I'm much more interested in hearing about the 5D replacement. > I think you will be waiting a bit longer for that. I think a > 1DSmkIII will surely be first. Possibly.
Mr.T - 22 Feb 2007 08:12 GMT > Yeah, I don't much see the point of the 20D-30D-40D series for most > users. I'd go 400D -> 5D or EOS-1-whatever. Yes that's my take too, the 20D/30D are not really what I'd call a professional camera anyway, and the 30D is looking like a joke against the 400D for the extra asking price. The 5D OTOH fills a completely different requirement, and is far more useful for a Pro or semiPro.
> > >I'm much more interested in hearing about the 5D replacement. > > I think you will be waiting a bit longer for that. I think a > > 1DSmkIII will surely be first. > > Possibly. Probably. The 5D still holds it's own, and hasn't had a long enough run yet compared to the usual model production life. Unless Nikon brings out something similar of course :-)
MrT.
The Pointman - 22 Feb 2007 05:08 GMT >>Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>coming through: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Looks like you're 1st with the news. Well done, Wayne. :) Great work Wayne......man this thing looks sooooo cool. I think I might get one!!!! Bye Bye 20D.....You have been great but I have outgrown you.. My 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 are gonna love it too. The Pointman. www.myspace.com/countrymusicphoto
Wayne J. Cosshall - 22 Feb 2007 07:04 GMT >>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The Pointman. > www.myspace.com/countrymusicphoto Lucky you. Out of my budget right at this moment, as I need to get a new laptop :(
Cheers,
Wayne
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The Pointman - 22 Feb 2007 07:14 GMT >>>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Wayne C'mon Wayne, surely a RAM update and a defrag will keep the old laptop rolling along for at least another 12 months!!!! hehehe ;-) Go on.....you know you want it. Pointy.
Wayne J. Cosshall - 22 Feb 2007 07:22 GMT > C'mon Wayne, surely a RAM update and a defrag will keep the old laptop > rolling along for at least another 12 months!!!! hehehe ;-) > Go on.....you know you want it. > Pointy. LOLOLOLOL Actually what I need for my current projects is a Hasselblad H3D with two 39MP backs, one converted for IR only and the other normal :)
Cheers,
Wayne
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C J Campbell - 22 Feb 2007 05:38 GMT > Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just > coming through: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Wayne 10 fps, live preview, APS-H sensor, 10.1 MP. I like the noise reduction for shadows; I see no mention of anti-dust. :-) New lighter body -- plastic? No, magnesium alloy.
Really big LCD screen.
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Mark² - 22 Feb 2007 05:53 GMT >> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Really big LCD screen. A chimper's delight... ;)
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2007 11:10 GMT > 10 fps, live preview, APS-H sensor, 10.1 MP. I like the noise > reduction for shadows; I see no mention of anti-dust. :-) New lighter > body -- plastic? No, magnesium alloy. > > Really big LCD screen. Looks like Canon is introducing the ultimate 'chimping' rig. The 3" display is going to be the key feature for chimpers worldwide. Of course you will always get some malcontents that will criticize Canon for not incorporating a 7" chimping display.
Rita
C J Campbell - 22 Feb 2007 17:34 GMT >> 10 fps, live preview, APS-H sensor, 10.1 MP. I like the noise >> reduction for shadows; I see no mention of anti-dust. :-) New lighter [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > always get some malcontents that will criticize Canon for not incorporating > a 7" chimping display. That would be the new Canon large format 4x7 digital camera. :-)
You are fighting a losing battle, Rita. Chimping rules!
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2007 22:57 GMT >> Looks like Canon is introducing the ultimate 'chimping' rig. The 3" >> display is going to be the key feature for chimpers worldwide. Of >> course you will always get some malcontents that will criticize >> Canon for not incorporating a 7" chimping display. > > That would be the new Canon large format 4x7 digital camera. :-) But that's not chimping and is totally socially acceptable.
> You are fighting a losing battle, Rita. Chimping rules! Sure does training wheels. There comes a time in your life when you have to balance on your own and remove the training wheels. If you leave them on too long you become dependant on them and your peers ridicule you while you learn nothing. Or worse, the damn thing could break and you will be sh.t out of luck.
Rita
C J Campbell - 23 Feb 2007 15:41 GMT >>> Looks like Canon is introducing the ultimate 'chimping' rig. The 3" >>> display is going to be the key feature for chimpers worldwide. Of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > learn nothing. Or worse, the damn thing could break and you will be sh.t > out of luck. It is a camera, not an airplane. Somehow people can still take pictures, even without special training, if something breaks. You don't have to practice the 'burned out LCD' emergency procedure.
We all could go blind at any moment, too, and not have the faintest idea what to do about it. Do you recommend that we should spend part of each day with our eyes covered?
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 23 Feb 2007 22:45 GMT > We all could go blind at any moment, too, and not have the faintest > idea what to do about it. Do you recommend that we should spend part > of each day with our eyes covered? Pirates covered one eye with a patch so they could have instantaneous night vision when they went below deck. Hell, even pirates didn't chimp.
Rita
Paul Repacholi - 22 Feb 2007 11:56 GMT > 10 fps, live preview, APS-H sensor, 10.1 MP. I like the noise > reduction for shadows; I see no mention of anti-dust. :-) New > lighter body -- plastic? No, magnesium alloy. I think a big chunk of the weight cut is the new Li batteries.
The wireless to USB storage is interesting. Wonder how it will go with a TB array plugged into the USB port...
Mark² - 22 Feb 2007 05:51 GMT > Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just > coming through: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Wayne 110 (!)large fine jpegs...non-stop at 10fps is amazing (30 RAW). Bill Hilton and Roger (who just returned from Africa) are likely drooling more than those lions did, over that yummy zebra...
Dual digic III processors? That's some very powerful stuff, and good for them for doing it. One of these days I'll have to spring for something along these lines for wildlife. I love my 5D, but for fast action, 3fps just doesn't cut it. 10MP at 1.3 crop factor should still render quality pixels... They're claiming an entirely new pixel structure, so it will be interesting to see what it produces.
ISO6400? 3200 that looks as good as current 1600? Good news.
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Skip - 22 Feb 2007 06:08 GMT >> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > ISO6400? 3200 that looks as good as current 1600? > Good news. That's an interesting camera. I'm not sure I'll be able to wait until the 5D or 1Ds mkII successors are released. My wife is excited about the self cleaning sensor. Live preview is interesting, too. The new 16-35 f2.8L II is interesting, too, but with an 82mm front element, filters are going to be expensive. It should, however, take care of the light fall off and softness in the corners that the present version has. (Take that, Rita!)
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Mark² - 22 Feb 2007 06:18 GMT >>> Details are up on my site along with the other Canon releases just >>> coming through: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > care of the light fall off and softness in the corners that the > present version has. (Take that, Rita!) Ya, they're using language like "vastly improved." -That means a major overhaul. Progress is good. -But I agree about the filters... I've always liked being able to have one polarizer fit a whole range of L lenses (24-70, 24-105, 70-200, etc.)
This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more light. If they release a sharper 100-400 (or 200-400 f4), I'll bite.
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default - 22 Feb 2007 16:02 GMT > This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 > replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more light. > If they release a sharper 100-400 (or 200-400 f4), I'll bite. How do you plan on making 400mm focal length at f/4 with less than 100mm diameter?
Since the clear area of the filter is considerably less than the thread size, at least a 105mm filter would be needed. Don't forget the cheque-book when ordering your polarizer for that one.
Mark² - 22 Feb 2007 16:31 GMT >> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 >> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more >> light. If they release a sharper 100-400 (or 200-400 f4), I'll bite. > > How do you plan on making 400mm focal length at f/4 with less than > 100mm diameter? That's just me showing the limitations of my familiarity with those physical requirements, there. Someone else can explain in detail, I'm sure, why I'm wrong (or why it's possible?).
> Since the clear area of the filter is considerably less than the > thread size, at least a 105mm filter would be needed. Don't forget > the cheque-book when ordering your polarizer for that one. Yep. :(
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Alan Hoyle - 22 Feb 2007 18:44 GMT In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems "Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
>>> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 >>> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more >>> light. If they release a sharper 100-400 (or 200-400 f4), I'll bite. >> >> How do you plan on making 400mm focal length at f/4 with less than >> 100mm diameter?
> That's just me showing the limitations of my familiarity with those physical > requirements, there. Someone else can explain in detail, I'm sure, why I'm > wrong (or why it's possible?). f number is the ratio of aperture width to focal length equivalent for an idealized lens. The numbers only get worse from there. When you see "f2.8" that really means "1:2.8". For an ideal 400 mm f 4, the minimum aperture would be 100 mm.
-alan
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Mr.T - 23 Feb 2007 04:28 GMT > > This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 > > replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more light. > > If they release a sharper 100-400 (or 200-400 f4), I'll bite. > > How do you plan on making 400mm focal length at f/4 with less than 100mm > diameter? Yes it's amazing how few people actually know what the numbers really mean these days. Still don't laugh considering the rapid advances in photonics, light amplification lenses may not be that far in the future :-)
MrT.
Mark² - 23 Feb 2007 05:48 GMT >>> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 >>> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Still don't laugh considering the rapid advances in photonics, light > amplification lenses may not be that far in the future :-) I know what the numbers mean...but I failed to stop and think about the front element size requirement when I made that statement. To tell you the truth, though, I don't sit around thinking of how big the front element needs to be udring the building process, because it doesn't figure into making images once you've got the lens in your hands. Some here are very much into number crunching, so I'll leave that part to them.
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Mr.T - 23 Feb 2007 06:00 GMT > >>> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 > >>> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather more [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > figure into making images once you've got the lens in your hands. Some here > are very much into number crunching, so I'll leave that part to them. I'd agree with you, IF you weren't actually making a statement directly about front element size *without* thinking through what you were saying. Your excuse now seems to be that you prefer to speak first and leave the thinking to others. :-)
MrT.
Mark² - 23 Feb 2007 06:49 GMT >>>>> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 >>>>> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > were saying. Your excuse now seems to be that you prefer to speak > first and leave the thinking to others. :-) In this particular case, I'm guilty as charged. For me, though, this particular is just not what I spend much time thinking about (lens element size). As with most photogs, I'm thinking about DOF, apertures needed for the image, blah blah blah. There are some here who are motivated to spend many hours hashing through the minutia of detail, and I commend them (Roger, David, and a number of others). I rather tend to want assume it works (because minutia folks make it possible) and use those capabilites, even if I'm not an engineer or math whiz. -That I am impatient with the math, etc. is a fair accusation...so I have no real defense.
:)
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Skip - 23 Feb 2007 14:26 GMT >>>>>> This also has me wondering if they might come out with a 100-400 >>>>>> replacement at f4...using an 82mm front element as they gather [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I have no real defense. > :) I'm with you, Mark. I enjoy the efforts of others, not least because I don't have to do the work, thanks to those self same efforts! ;-) Numbers have never been my friend!
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default - 23 Feb 2007 16:51 GMT > I'm with you, Mark. I enjoy the efforts of others, not least because I > don't have to do the work, thanks to those self same efforts! ;-) > Numbers have never been my friend! And I didn't mean to ridicule Mark about suggesting too small of a filter for his goals. I just wanted to point out the wishful thinking for something impossible.
Canon already has a couple of lenses with filter threads that are too small already. The EF 135mm f/2.8 SF lens has only a 52mm thread with a recessed first element. The lens should have a 48.2mm aperture however 52mm filters have a clear diameter of only 47mm. Although the filter doesn't cause vignetting on a Rebel XT due the reduced sensor size, it does darken the meter readings by 1/3 stop by putting on a clear filter that doesn't cause any noticeable loss on other lenses. The loss due to the diameter is less than 1/3 stop but adding the loss of light from reflections and absorption, it comes to 1/3 stop so it is noticable. With other lenses the losses are small enough for the meter to not notice this filter.
The EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM has a larger problem. I.E. a 71.4mm aperture with only a 72mm filter thread. The inside diameter of a 72 x 0.75mm thread is already only 71.25mm. It is slightly too small already and even worse when you consider that the light cone is converging into the lens. There are rays being clipped for sure. My 72mm filters measure 67mm of clear glass, so they are way too small. A 67mm clear aperture reduces the lens to at best f/2.99, a full sixth of a stop lost not including the cone angle and filter factor. The real losses are larger, probably more than 1/3 stop. Usually the entrance pupil is actually smaller than the front element, but clearly clear aperture of the front element must be at least as big as the entrance pupil or else it becomes another iris limiting the light input. Why didn't Canon use a 77mm filter thread? 77mmm filters have a clear area of 72mmm so they would work wit less loss.
If anyone has a EF 200mm f:2.8L USM could you try metering the same scene with and without a 72mm clear UV filter?
eawckyegcy@yahoo.com - 23 Feb 2007 18:43 GMT > The EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM has a larger problem. I.E. a 71.4mm aperture > with only a 72mm filter thread. The "200" and "2.8" are to be taken as more guidelines than etched-in- glass truth.
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2007 11:10 GMT > That's an interesting camera. I'm not sure I'll be able to wait > until the 5D or 1Ds mkII successors are released. My wife is excited [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > care of the light fall off and softness in the corners that the > present version has. (Take that, Rita!) Hey, I'm hoping it will knock the Nikon 17-35/2.8 straight into the dirt. If it performs slightly better than the Nikkor it will be worth whatever Canon asks. This is very exciting news for everyone.
Rita
Skip - 22 Feb 2007 13:26 GMT >> That's an interesting camera. I'm not sure I'll be able to wait >> until the 5D or 1Ds mkII successors are released. My wife is excited [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If it performs slightly better than the Nikkor it will be worth whatever > Canon asks. This is very exciting news for everyone. If it really does the job, and with an 82mm front element, it should, I'll probably sell my old 20-35 and maybe the present 16-35 and get one. We'll see about price, too, though. Too high, and it might not be worth an incremental improvement.
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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2007 22:57 GMT >> Hey, I'm hoping it will knock the Nikon 17-35/2.8 straight into the >> dirt. If it performs slightly better than the Nikkor it will be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > one. We'll see about price, too, though. Too high, and it might not > be worth an incremental improvement. The larger front element should really destroy any light gathering problems and keep distortion down to a minimum. I think we should see a hell of a lot more than an incremental improvement. I hope this turns out to be the must have WA of the 21st century. I wouldn't be concerned about price since a great lens is worth paying for. We shall see.
Rita
Skip - 23 Feb 2007 00:44 GMT >>> Hey, I'm hoping it will knock the Nikon 17-35/2.8 straight into the >>> dirt. If it performs slightly better than the Nikkor it will be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > since > a great lens is worth paying for. We shall see. If it is as good as anticipated, and remember, the 50mm f1.2 wasn't, a price at or under $1600 would be the trigger.
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Mr.T - 23 Feb 2007 04:21 GMT > If it is as good as anticipated, and remember, the 50mm f1.2 wasn't, a price > at or under $1600 would be the trigger. Trigger for what? Pro's and serious amateurs are willing to pay FAR more than that IF the lens is worth it. (and sometimes even when it's not :-)
MrT.
Skip - 23 Feb 2007 14:27 GMT >> If it is as good as anticipated, and remember, the 50mm f1.2 wasn't, a > price [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > MrT. The trigger for me to buy it.
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Mr.T - 24 Feb 2007 05:15 GMT > > Trigger for what?
> The trigger for me to buy it. Ah, probably not a major consideration for Canon :-)
MrT.
Skip - 24 Feb 2007 05:42 GMT >> > Trigger for what? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > MrT. Probably not. But this part of the thread was a conversation between myself and "Rita." Not between myself and Canon. Also, it might be indicative of what it would take for someone, such as myself, to upgrade from the present 16-35 to the new one, if they already had the present iteration, which I do.
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Mr.T - 24 Feb 2007 06:06 GMT > Also, it might be indicative of > what it would take for someone, such as myself, to upgrade from the present > 16-35 to the new one, if they already had the present iteration, which I do. In fact the only things you would need to consider in that case is how much EXTRA you would need to pay after you sold your current lens, and whether the improvements would justify that extra expense, for YOU. I seriously doubt Canon expects the majority of buyers to be current owners though.
MrT.
Skip - 24 Feb 2007 06:25 GMT >> Also, it might be indicative of >> what it would take for someone, such as myself, to upgrade from the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > MrT. That, my friend, was the point to what I said. While Canon may not expect the majority of buyers to be current owners, I'll contend that they are betting on a considerable number of them moving from one to the other.
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Mr.T - 24 Feb 2007 13:34 GMT > That, my friend, was the point to what I said. > While Canon may not expect the majority of buyers to be current owners, I'll > contend that they are betting on a considerable number of them moving from > one to the other. And that's where we disagree. (for any normal definition of "considerable" anyway)
MrT.
Skip - 24 Feb 2007 16:38 GMT >> That, my friend, was the point to what I said. >> While Canon may not expect the majority of buyers to be current owners, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MrT. If they expected the overwhelming majority of purchasers to be new buyers, then the upgrade wasn't really necessary. If you want a fast WA zoom that AFs on a Canon body, the 16-35 was the only game in town, anyway. In order to get people who already have that lens to buy a new one, they needed to address shortcomings, real or imagined, in the older lens.
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nick c - 24 Feb 2007 21:28 GMT >>> That, my friend, was the point to what I said. >>> While Canon may not expect the majority of buyers to be current owners, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to get people who already have that lens to buy a new one, they needed to > address shortcomings, real or imagined, in the older lens. Aside from the 10-22 lens.
When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter creates a user inventory problem. Carrying different lenses is one thing to consider but having to buy and carry unique filters for the lenses is not something I look forward to doing. ;)
Paul Rubin - 24 Feb 2007 21:34 GMT > > fast WA zoom that AFs on a Canon body, the 16-35 was the only game > Aside from the 10-22 lens. The 10-22 is an f/3.5-4.5, while the 16-35 is a constant f/2.8.
Skip - 25 Feb 2007 01:48 GMT >> If they expected the overwhelming majority of purchasers to be new >> buyers, then the upgrade wasn't really necessary. If you want a fast WA [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Aside from the 10-22 lens. Yep, but that's why I said "fast." the 10-22 isn't an f2.8.
> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm size > filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter creates a > user inventory problem. Carrying different lenses is one thing to consider > but having to buy and carry unique filters for the lenses is not something > I look forward to doing. ;) Yeah, I'm not thrilled about the 82mm front element, all my other filters are either 67mm or 77mm. But the only filter I might be tempted to use is a polarizer, and the use of such is problematic at 20mm and beyond. So, it's probably not as big a deal as we think it is.
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Jørn Dahl-Stamnes - 25 Feb 2007 08:25 GMT >> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm >> size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > polarizer, and the use of such is problematic at 20mm and beyond. So, > it's probably not as big a deal as we think it is. The Cokin P system do have an adapter ring for the 82 mm. So I can use most of my filters, except my 77 mm pola filter... I shall overcome that.
 Signature Jørn Dahl-Stamnes http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/
Mr.T - 25 Feb 2007 03:19 GMT > When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm > size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter > creates a user inventory problem. Carrying different lenses is one thing > to consider but having to buy and carry unique filters for the lenses is > not something I look forward to doing. ;) Maybe, but even though I have a large collection of filters (both glass and plastic) I find I hardly ever use them with digital bodies. I doubt it is a huge consideration for most users. Obviously YOU will take it into consideration, as appropriate.
MrT.
Mark² - 25 Feb 2007 05:47 GMT >> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm >> size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I doubt it is a huge consideration for most users. Obviously YOU will > take it into consideration, as appropriate. Color filters...no. But polarizers do things that are impossible to emulate in photoshop...like subdue or remove reflections off of water (or enhance them), or see through glass with or without reflection. It does a lot more than merely darken blue skies...
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 25 Feb 2007 10:41 GMT > Color filters...no. But polarizers do things that are impossible to emulate > in photoshop...like subdue or remove reflections off of water (or enhance > them), or see through glass with or without reflection. It does a lot more > than merely darken blue skies... Thanks for the lesson on polarizers, I never would have guessed :-) <sarcasm mode off>
(However it is NOT impossible to emulate most of what a polarizer does in Photoshop BTW, glass and water excepted)
If you can't afford another polarizer, I doubt you can afford the lens in question anyway.
MrT.
Mark² - 25 Feb 2007 11:33 GMT >> Color filters...no. But polarizers do things that are impossible to >> emulate in photoshop...like subdue or remove reflections off of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > MrT. Hey... If you sound like you need a lesson...you just might get one...
:) I don't know you from Adam. Plus...even if you're an expert, there are others reading along here who don't have a clue what extent they should ignore the prospect of filters.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 26 Feb 2007 04:03 GMT > Hey... If you sound like you need a lesson... Hey if YOU read what you snipped AND understood it's significance, you wouldn't think that.
> Plus...even if you're an expert, there are others reading along here who > don't have a clue what extent they should ignore the prospect of filters. And you're certainly not helping :-)
MrT.
Mark² - 26 Feb 2007 04:33 GMT >> Hey... If you sound like you need a lesson... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And you're certainly not helping :-) So you think Polarizers are obsolete for DSLRs?
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Mr.T - 26 Feb 2007 04:48 GMT > So you think Polarizers are obsolete for DSLRs? So you can't read what I wrote?
MrT.
Mark² - 26 Feb 2007 05:21 GMT >> So you think Polarizers are obsolete for DSLRs? > > So you can't read what I wrote? I tried... :)
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Mr.T - 26 Feb 2007 07:39 GMT > > So you can't read what I wrote? > > I tried... :) And failed obviously. What part that I wrote about filters was beyond your comprehension? Maybe I can clarify it for you.
MrT.
nick c - 26 Feb 2007 18:46 GMT >> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a 77mm >> size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm filter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > MrT. I'm a big fan for using filters; polarizers of various types and in particular graduated filters, even with digital cameras. I disagree, I think filter sizes and their use thereof are a consideration to those that use filters appropriately for enhancement/light/exposure balance.
I can understand why P&S camera users may choose to not use filters (due to camera limitations) but dSLR users should give serious consideration to using filters, especially of the variety and availability of polarizers and graduated filters.
Mark² - 27 Feb 2007 00:54 GMT >>> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a >>> 77mm size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > consideration to using filters, especially of the variety and > availability of polarizers and graduated filters. That's the other filter I often have in my bag... A graduated filter. While you can play with stuff similar to it in photoshop, it still means either pulling shadows, or trying to recover highlights. With a graduated filter, it lets you start out closer to the mark, or takes care of it altogether in some cases. With film, I used to carry several other filters...
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mark² - 27 Feb 2007 01:54 GMT >>>> When one already has the 16-35 and other good lenses that take a >>>> 77mm size filter, many variations of which I have, going to a 82mm [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > takes care of it altogether in some cases. With film, I used to > carry several other filters... That should read "pushing shadows..." :)
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 27 Feb 2007 01:55 GMT > That's the other filter I often have in my bag... A graduated filter. > While you can play with stuff similar to it in photoshop, it still means > either pulling shadows, or trying to recover highlights. With a graduated > filter, it lets you start out closer to the mark, or takes care of it > altogether in some cases. Obviously you have never tried taking more than one exposure and then using photoshop. FAR more effective and versatile than ANY graduated filter IME. AND costs nothing!
>With film, I used to carry several other filters... I still do....with film.
MrT.
Mark² - 27 Feb 2007 02:02 GMT >> That's the other filter I often have in my bag... A graduated >> filter. While you can play with stuff similar to it in photoshop, it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > FAR more effective and versatile than ANY graduated filter IME. > AND costs nothing! That I'm no whiz in Photoshop makes your statement at least partially true...because I haven't done that to any expert degree. I should fiddle with it more, as I am certainly convinced that it's an effective technique. The other factor is that many scenes involve movement of some kind, so blending two images can be troublesome.
>> With film, I used to carry several other filters... > > I still do....with film. > > MrT.
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Mr.T - 27 Feb 2007 02:24 GMT > That I'm no whiz in Photoshop makes your statement at least partially > true...because I haven't done that to any expert degree. I should fiddle > with it more, as I am certainly convinced that it's an effective technique. Arguing in favour of filters without fully understanding the alternatives is rather pointless IMO.
> The other factor is that many scenes involve movement of some kind, so > blending two images can be troublesome. And I often find using grad filters troublesome on moving subjects too. That's part of the challenge I guess.
MrT.
Mark² - 27 Feb 2007 02:36 GMT >> That I'm no whiz in Photoshop makes your statement at least partially >> true...because I haven't done that to any expert degree. I should [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Arguing in favour of filters without fully understanding the > alternatives is rather pointless IMO. Oh brother. I do understand the alternatives. I merely said I'm not expert at that particular. You could have registered the fact I was willing to admit my lack of expertise in that particular. -Instead, you decided to be an a.s.
>> The other factor is that many scenes involve movement of some kind, >> so blending two images can be troublesome. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > MrT.
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Mr.T - 27 Feb 2007 05:01 GMT > >> That I'm no whiz in Photoshop makes your statement at least partially > >> true...because I haven't done that to any expert degree. I should [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh brother. I do understand the alternatives. I merely said I'm not expert > at that particular. So you FULLY understand, but are not an expert or a "whiz"? Your statements would certainly indicate you are not an expert anyway, so why keep arguing the point?
>You could have registered the fact I was willing to > admit my lack of expertise in that particular. - Yes, I just wondered why you would argue strongly about something you are not an expert on. If you didn't keep having a go at me, I wouldn't reciprocate. Time to move on I think.
MrT.
Mark² - 27 Feb 2007 05:17 GMT >>>> That I'm no whiz in Photoshop makes your statement at least >>>> partially true...because I haven't done that to any expert degree. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > If you didn't keep having a go at me, I wouldn't reciprocate. Time to > move on I think. Have a look at Nick C's post. I think he's got the right idea.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 28 Feb 2007 01:34 GMT > Have a look at Nick C's post. > I think he's got the right idea. Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL stages of the process though.
MrT.
Mark² - 28 Feb 2007 03:50 GMT >> Have a look at Nick C's post. >> I think he's got the right idea. > > Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL > stages of the process though. Me too. For some reason, this thread got testy, and to whatever degree that is my fault, I apologise. I don't remember seeing you here before. Are you new, or is this just a new name for you? Do you have images posted anywhere? Maybe it's time to change the subject... :)
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 28 Feb 2007 05:12 GMT > > Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL > > stages of the process though. > > Me too. So why claim post processing is unnecessary or inferior? Glad to see you are now in agreement anyway.
MrT.
Mark² - 28 Feb 2007 06:26 GMT >>> Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL >>> stages of the process though. >> >> Me too. > > So why claim post processing is unnecessary or inferior? Where did I say that? Quote me. You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. Certainly not all aspects of them.
Look, T... I reached out an olove branch to you and you're still being an a.s. I now conlude that you are wholly, or at least mostly just that. So this will be it from me unless you've got something more helpful to add.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 28 Feb 2007 06:40 GMT > You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. Certainly > not all aspects of them. *I* mentioned reflections already not you, and despite all your indignation/argument you have not given one other use of filters that cannot be replicated in Photoshop.
> Look, T... I reached out an olove branch to you and you're still being an > a.s. That's the problem, your idea of "reaching out an olive branch" is to call someone an a.s. Then get upset when they reply in kind.
> this will be it from me Lets hope so :-)
MrT.
Mark² - 28 Feb 2007 07:35 GMT >> You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. >> Certainly not all aspects of them. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lets hope so :-) That's easy. Bye bye.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mark² - 28 Feb 2007 07:39 GMT >> You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. >> Certainly not all aspects of them. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > MrT. BTW... Just figure out who you are... No wonder I don't like you.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mark² - 28 Feb 2007 07:40 GMT >>> You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. >>> Certainly not all aspects of them. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > BTW... Just figure out who you are... > No wonder I don't like you. Make that, "I just figured out who you really are behind your latest fake name, chump."
Surprised it took that long...
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mr.T - 28 Feb 2007 07:46 GMT > Make that, "I just figured out who you really are behind your latest fake > name, chump." Do tell?
> Surprised it took that long... Well you do appear to be a bit/lot slow :-)
MrT.
G.T. - 28 Feb 2007 08:01 GMT >> Make that, "I just figured out who you really are behind your latest fake >> name, chump." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > MrT. The other Mark?
Greg
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Mr.T - 28 Feb 2007 07:44 GMT > No wonder I don't like you. Despite the fact you called me an a.s, you will find I never made any such personal attacks on you, only your contradictory assertions. It's no wonder I don't care what you think about me in the slightest.
MrT.
J. Clarke - 28 Feb 2007 14:40 GMT >> You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. Certainly >> not all aspects of them. > >*I* mentioned reflections already not you, and despite all your >indignation/argument you have not given one other use of filters that cannot >be replicated in Photoshop. There's not one use of a camera (photographically speaking of course, using it as a bludgeon is another story) that cannot be replicated in Photoshop, given sufficient skill and effort. However you reach a point where what you are doing becomes "painting" and not "photography".
The question is where you want to put your effort and how much you want to expend. If three seconds putting a filter on will save three minutes in photoshop then it seems a decent tradeoff.
It seems we have a new religion, Filterist vs anti-Filterist.
Mr.T - 01 Mar 2007 04:38 GMT > There's not one use of a camera (photographically speaking of course, > using it as a bludgeon is another story) that cannot be replicated in > Photoshop, given sufficient skill and effort. However you reach a > point where what you are doing becomes "painting" and not > "photography". And surely that is entirely up to the photographer.
> The question is where you want to put your effort and how much you > want to expend. If three seconds putting a filter on will save three > minutes in photoshop then it seems a decent tradeoff. If 3 minutes in Photoshop saves me paying $50-100 for another filter I might hardly ever use, then that seems a better trade off.
> It seems we have a new religion, Filterist vs anti-Filterist. And dopes that claim some-one with *dozens* of filters is anti-filterist :-)
MrT.
Skip - 01 Mar 2007 02:16 GMT >>>> Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL >>>> stages of the process though. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You can't really replicate polarizers, if that's what you mean. Certainly > not all aspects of them. Psst, Mark. Check out Nik filters. They have a neat polarizer emulator that works really well.
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm
Mark² - 01 Mar 2007 03:28 GMT >>>>> Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL >>>>> stages of the process though. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Psst, Mark. Check out Nik filters. They have a neat polarizer > emulator that works really well. It can see through reflections on glass and water?? I doubt that very much. There's more to polarizers than deep blue skies.
 Signature Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson
Mike Warren - 01 Mar 2007 03:45 GMT Mark2 wrote:
> It can see through reflections on glass and water?? > I doubt that very much. You just have to use the magic eraser in PS to erase the reflection and show what's underneath. ;-)
 Signature -Mike
Mark² - 01 Mar 2007 05:03 GMT >>>>>> Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL >>>>>> stages of the process though. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I doubt that very much. > There's more to polarizers than deep blue skies. I know you know that...so I'm assuming you're talking about darkening skies...
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Skip - 01 Mar 2007 12:58 GMT >>>>>>> Whatever works for you. I'm happy to do the best job I can at ALL >>>>>>> stages of the process though. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I know you know that...so I'm assuming you're talking about darkening > skies... More than darkening skies, but it doesn't really help with reflections, you're right, it can't work any magic with what isn't in the image.
 Signature Skip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm
Annika1980 - 01 Mar 2007 05:59 GMT On Feb 28, 10:28 pm, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
> > Psst, Mark. Check out Nik filters. They have a neat polarizer > > emulator that works really well. > > It can see through reflections on glass and water?? > I doubt that very much. > There's more to polarizers than deep blue skies. Here's a quickie polarizer demo I made a while back: http://members.aol.com/annika1980/polarizer.html
Mark² - 01 Mar 2007 06:08 GMT > On Feb 28, 10:28 pm, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number > here)@cox..net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Here's a quickie polarizer demo I made a while back: > http://members.aol.com/annika1980/polarizer.html Right. But that was a real...on the lens...polarizer.
:) Photoshop can certainly subdue reflections and draw out some detail that made it through the reflection during capture...but it sure can't generate detail that was lost to the reflection. Polarizers are simply without a photoshop equal when it comes to this key aspect of why polarizers are used.
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Mr.T - 01 Mar 2007 06:25 GMT > Right. But that was a real...on the lens...polarizer. :) > Photoshop can certainly subdue reflections and draw out some detail that > made it through the reflection during capture...but it sure can't generate > detail that was lost to the reflection. Polarizers are simply without a > photoshop equal when it comes to this key aspect of why polarizers are used. And of course you are the only one who knows how to use one right? Those of us that have been using them for >30 years, AND know how to use Photoshop to good effect, are doing it all wrong I guess :-)
In fact I think a bit of Photo-shopping using both pictures would give a better result. Possibly he could have achieved a better result in the first place, who knows. He was probably going for maximum effect to highlight the difference. So as I have said many times, it's up to the photographer to achieve the desired result HE/SHE wants with whatever tools they wish to use (and more often can afford :-)
Those who think THEIR choice of tools alone makes them a better photographer are just blowing hot air out their a.s.
MrT.
Mark² - 01 Mar 2007 07:25 GMT >> Right. But that was a real...on the lens...polarizer. :) >> Photoshop can certainly subdue reflections and draw out some detail [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Those of us that have been using them for >30 years, AND know how to > use Photoshop to good effect, are doing it all wrong I guess :-) Who said that?
> In fact I think a bit of Photo-shopping using both pictures would > give a better result. All DSLR images can benefit from some post processing.
Possibly he could have achieved a better result
> in the first place, who knows. He was probably going for maximum > effect to highlight the difference. So as I have said many times, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Those who think THEIR choice of tools alone makes them a better > photographer are just blowing hot air out their a.s. Who here has stated this?
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Annika1980 - 01 Mar 2007 16:12 GMT On Mar 1, 1:08 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
> > Here's a quickie polarizer demo I made a while back: > >http://members.aol.com/annika1980/polarizer.html [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > detail that was lost to the reflection. Polarizers are simply without a > photoshop equal when it comes to this key aspect of why polarizers are used. I agree. Someone "might" be able to approximate the polarized result by using Photoshop, but it would require a lot of work. I missed a great opportunity just last week when the Presidential motorcade came through. In the full-sized version of this pic ( http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/74678630 ) I can make out the President's head in one of thw windows, but a polarizer would have helped greatly with the outer reflections. Do they make circular polarizers for rifle scopes?
Mark² - 01 Mar 2007 16:21 GMT > On Mar 1, 1:08 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number > here)@cox..net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > polarizer would have helped greatly with the outer reflections. Do > they make circular polarizers for rifle scopes? Careful... Black helicopters may descend...
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Annika1980 - 01 Mar 2007 17:08 GMT On Mar 1, 11:21 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
> > On Mar 1, 1:08 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number > > here)@cox..net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Careful... |
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