> If you actually
> had a clue you might realize compressed images often blow out the
> highlights... The cost of 60% compression.
Bullshit. Compression doesn't change the color values.
You're an idiot.
> The quality of the images YOU see may be compromised by my gallery software
> which applies compression to the pictures. Don't think for a single moment
> I'm going to post uncompressed images just because you see blown
> highlights... Get yourself a decent monitor.
My monitor is calibrated. Don't blame my equipment for your crappy
pics.
Like the one I referenced (which you quickly removed, reminding one of
Pavlov's dog) with the 4 people on the beach and the Hang Glider.
The sky was totally blown out (255,255,255).
I can re-post it if you like.
> If Photoshop says the whites in my photos are anything other than
> 255.255.255 the pic doesn't have blown highlights.
And if it does?
>If Photoshop shows the
> blacks as anything other than 0.0.0. the shadows are not blocked either.
If you knew anything about displaying images you would never have
shadows that read (1,1,1). You should always leave a margin of error
of at least 10-15.
> Gallery ( gallery.menalto.com) compresses the image enough to blow the
> highlights
Compression doesn't blow the highlights. Poor exposure from a hack
photographer blows the highlights.
>YANKEE GO HOME. Stay out of this group anyway...
I'll post where I like, you Australian twit.
I'm sure the boys in this newsgroup don't like you representing them.
You give every photographer south of the equator a bad name.
> Even a jerk like you should know by now that 90% of the world's computer
> users see different colour balance and brightness than you do. The Internet
> and web images are such an imprecise means of displaying a picture, what you
> see is not necessarily what other see and vice versa.
Hey dumbass, it's called calibration and sRGB. Go buy a friggin book.
So now tell us why you quickly removed some of the photos on your site
that I linked to? Too much bandwidth? Or maybe that evil Mark Thomas
was stealing your pics again?
Noons - 15 Feb 2007 10:01 GMT
> I'll post where I like, you Australian twit.
Hep! Australian twits might have a thing or two
to say about that!
> I'm sure the boys in this newsgroup don't like you representing them.
Wot about the girls then?
¦D
Joan - 15 Feb 2007 10:49 GMT
Speaking for myself, personally, I couldn't care less about the whole
cat fight.

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Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly
Wot about the girls then?
Noons - 15 Feb 2007 11:43 GMT
> Speaking for myself, personally, I couldn't care less about the whole
> cat fight.
sounds like one, don't it? :-D
Douglas, your post shows a lamentable lack of knowledge.
> If you actually
> had a clue you might realize compressed images often blow out the
> highlights... The cost of 60% compression.
No, that is completely incorrect. The compression does not alter or
lose highlights, but it may cause image artefacts and posterisation -
as you prove frequently. And that only happens when some moron is
foolish to use too high a level of compression. JPEG is, of course,
an 8-bit format so there can be slight losses at the top and bottom of
the range, but it will only be visible *when the conversion to 8-bit
is done by someone who is incompetent*. Again, anyone with a clue can
easily avoid blown highlights/blocked shadows in a jpeg version,
unless they are blown in the original.
It should also be said that blown highlights are not necessarily
'evil', and can be justified at times, eg in areas where there is no
useful or wanted detail, or in a shot with such extremes of dynamic
range that they are inescapable. But those issues don't apply to any
of Douglas' images, of course. (O;
> In case you missed the news flash... 80% of Australian Internet users are
> still on dialup or ADSL1. None of them could see your uncompressed, full
> resolution images on PBase with any reasonable expectation.
What a load of ignorant bullshit. At those sizes you should be able
to create pin-sharp images at less than 100k per image.
> Your favourite slut, Mark Thomas got caught out with that one when he and
> Tony Polson tried to get me with a "soft" image of an old fellow a couple of
> years ago...
Yes, back then we criticised your JPG incompetence in a similar way.
You have, as usual and as expected, learned nothing. Why don't you
*repost* that little jpeg in question, Douglas, and I'll show you,
again, how to sharpen it *properly*. If not, then you lose again, and
you can simply STFU.
> The quality of the images YOU see may be compromised by my gallery software
> which applies compression to the pictures.
It's your choice - so take the wrap - you want to use crap software to
show your images? - go for it. It suits them. A professional would:
a - take more care to present his/her images in the best possible
light
b - notice the problem and fix it, rather than have others point it
out.
This sort of incompetence is a bit like you choosing to use a GIF
running across the top of your homepage:
http://www.brisbaneweddingphotographers.com/
Lovely posterisation and dazzling highlights, Doug. (O;
Yet here:
http://www.brisbaneweddingphotographers.com/privacy.htm
for some reason you use "common sense" and actually post a half-decent
version, as a JPG. Can you spot the difference, Doug? That's the
sort of abysmal attention to detail that you show on a daily, if not
hourly basis. *Who* is blind? The moron who uses GIF's on his
showpiece page? What sort of *idiot* gets caught like this?
> If Photoshop says the whites in my photos are anything other than
> 255.255.255 the pic doesn't have blown highlights. If Photoshop shows the
> blacks as anything other than 0.0.0. the shadows are not blocked either.
Anyone with a decent knowledge of how to display images knows that
blown highlights refers to lost detail, and that can happen well under
255's. And if you are *seeing* shadow detail under about the 10's,
then your black point is badly set. So it appears *your* monitor
needs calibrating. Haven't you ever seen a proper gamma test strip,
Douglas, or read up on this topic at places like Norman Koren's
excellent site? Again, professionals understand this stuff. See
below for a test strip.
> Gallery ( gallery.menalto.com) compresses the image enough to blow the
> highlights but that is just the cost of a fast enough load for those Aussies
> who are still on 64k and less internet links.
*I* have gallery software that can do that too, but when I find an
image that is 'damaged', I just override it. Can't you write a little
html, Doug?
Nah, it's just all too hard for you, and why should you bother? - the
images don't deserve any decent treatment.
> YANKEE GO HOME. Stay out of this
> group anyway... You're starting to make Mark Thomas look like a patron
> saint.
Thanks, Douglas, I knew you would eventually see my shining light of
truth.
Me, I vote Annika stays. And this group is about Oz photo issues,
nest ce pas? You are in Australia and you post this rubbish, so the
purpose of this group is for all-comers to discuss that. And everyone
who sees this stuff will learn something, it appears (with one single
exception....)
> Even a jerk like you should know by now that 90% of the world's computer
> users see different colour balance and brightness than you do.
No, they will see almost identical images if their screens are
calibrated as well as his - and it is quite obvious by the quality and
correct b/w points of his images, that Annika's monitor is perfect.
So's mine. (O;
Here's a simple test strip I made specially for you, Dougie - feel
free to breach my copywrite (sic):
http://www.marktphoto.com/gamma1.gif
A well adjusted screen:
- should clearly show ALL the white shades (the difference between
d,e,f should be visible)..
- should not *quite* show the black bar labelled b - it should be
right on the border of invisibility. c should be visible, however.
If you have that, then your gamma is well set, at around 2.1 or 2.2,
the defacto standard for Windows boxes. (This sort of gamma check may
not work very well on LCD screens, sorry.)
People who are not old enough to have stopped learning may also wish
to read this:
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html
Here endeth another lesson on the basics.
> The Internet
> and web images are such an imprecise means of displaying a picture, what you
> see is not necessarily what other see and vice versa.
Spoken by someone without a clue. WTF do you think monitor
calibration *does* then, Doug? Just because *some* people don't have
their monitors correctly adjuisted, that is an excuse for posting
poorly adjusted crap?
> So why don't you take the brick off your dick and see if it's long enough
> yet to go f.ck yourself with it?
What a lovely man. Showing all this to your team of hotshot lawyers,
Dougie?
Spoken4 - 15 Feb 2007 10:34 GMT
> Douglas, your post shows a lamentable lack of knowledge.
>
[quoted text clipped - 127 lines]
> What a lovely man. Showing all this to your team of hotshot lawyers,
> Dougie?
Between the war, there is some great info in there. Thanks for the gamma
stuff! I'd appreciate it if other responses to Doug gave as detailed
howto's as this post. Thanks Mark!
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 15 Feb 2007 11:00 GMT
> Between the war, there is some great info in there. Thanks for the gamma
> stuff! I'd appreciate it if other responses to Doug gave as detailed
> howto's as this post. Thanks Mark!
No worries, cobber! Feel free to ask any questions, or just post some
new topics - God knows we need something new to distract us (oh
alright, me) from Douglas-teasing..
(O;
Wilba - 16 Feb 2007 02:53 GMT
Mark wrote:
> Here's a simple test strip I made specially for you, Dougie - feel
> free to breach my copywrite (sic):
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> - should not *quite* show the black bar labelled b - it should be
> right on the border of invisibility. c should be visible, however.
I like what you have done there. May I include the image and text on my
personal (non-commercial) photo gallery?
mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 16 Feb 2007 05:59 GMT
> Mark wrote:
> >http://www.marktphoto.com/gamma1.gif
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I like what you have done there. May I include the image and text on my
> personal (non-commercial) photo gallery?
Certainly. And I don't require acknowledgement - it's something I
hacked up in a few minutes just to make the process of checking a
little quicker. People seem to like having the little letters!
Wilba - 16 Feb 2007 08:46 GMT
Mark wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>> >http://www.marktphoto.com/gamma1.gif
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> hacked up in a few minutes just to make the process of checking a
> little quicker. People seem to like having the little letters!
Thanks. The letters make it a lot easier to describe how to use it.
Colin_D - 16 Feb 2007 03:04 GMT
<snip>
> Here's a simple test strip I made specially for you, Dougie - feel
> free to breach my copywrite (sic):
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the defacto standard for Windows boxes. (This sort of gamma check may
> not work very well on LCD screens, sorry.)
A small point, mark; even if the gamma is more or less correct, if the
brightness is set too low the a,b,c, tones will be too black, and c will
not be separated from b.
Otherwise a very useful test. I borrowed it, hope your reaction is not
as per Doug. {:-)
Colin D.

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Colin_D - 16 Feb 2007 22:44 GMT
Bugger - another double, same reason as above in the Black Knight thread.
Apologies
Colin D.

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Colin_D - 16 Feb 2007 09:45 GMT
<snip>
> Here's a simple test strip I made specially for you, Dougie - feel
> free to breach my copywrite (sic):
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> If you have that, then your gamma is well set, at around 2.1 or 2.2,
> the defacto standard for Windows boxes.
<snip>
A small point, mark; even if the gamma is more or less correct, if the
brightness is set too low the a,b,c, tones will be too black, and c will
not be separated from b.
Otherwise a very useful test. I borrowed it, hope your reaction is not
as per Doug. {:-)
Colin D.

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mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 16 Feb 2007 22:25 GMT
> A small point, mark; even if the gamma is more or less correct, if the
> brightness is set too low the a,b,c, tones will be too black, and c will
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Colin D.
True, Colin - for brevity (usually not my strong point!) I decided to
leave out the part about getting your basic brightness level set
correctly. But I did include the link to Norman's site for a more
comprehensive discussion...
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the most common problem with
badly set monitors is that the gamma is way too high (so b is
*clearly* visible), or too low (c and others are lost). That gif
gives a very simple and quick check to see if you are in the ball
park.
I wonder if we should start a new link to discuss monitor calibration
in more detail.. Covering more areas, like te very interesting topic
of what colour temperature to use. I might start one when I have a
bit more free time.
And yes, as I mentioned to Wilbur - I declare my Gif as in the public
domain and do not require acknowledgement.
cheers, mt
Andrew Hennell - 17 Feb 2007 00:45 GMT
> I wonder if we should start a new link to discuss monitor calibration
> in more detail.. Covering more areas, like te very interesting topic
> of what colour temperature to use. I might start one when I have a
> bit more free time.
yes please :)
> So why don't you take the brick off your dick and see if it's long enough
> yet to go f.ck yourself with it?
>
> Bloody American idiots
Hey D-Mac, remember over 50 years ago when you were in school and the
teacher asked what you'd like to be when you grow up?
Remember how the rest of the kids all laughed at you when you
answered, "I want to be a no-talent hack photographer living on a
houseboat?"
Well guess what, D-Mac?
They're all still laughing at you.
> : Hey D-Mac, just a quick heads up to let you know that some imposter
> : has set up yet another gallery pretending to show off pics taken by
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> resolution images on PBase with any reasonable expectation. Most could go
> for a pizza while it loaded.
> The quality of the images YOU see may be compromised by my gallery software
> which applies compression to the pictures. Don't think for a single moment
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> group anyway... You're starting to make Mark Thomas look like a patron
> saint.
1. I will accept that a Lossy compression will cause subtle highlight
changes, making several shades of white the same colour..... but only if
they were blown out in the first place will they become blown out!
Compression does not change the tonal range.... just pixels and the
number of colours.
2. If you are running a business from your webpage..... I think I would
put my best foot forward..... it does not matter what , when, who or why
the images have appeared as they are.... they point is, this is what
your supposed customers see, it's your shop window. There is only 1
person to blame if the images are shite!
kosh
Lionel - 16 Feb 2007 15:05 GMT
>> Gallery ( gallery.menalto.com) compresses the image enough to blow the
>> highlights
Bullshit. That's a complete lie. I run my own site on Gallery, & it
doesn't do anything of the sort. Any resizing is completely optional,
& if you /do/ use the automatic resizing, you have almost as much
control of the resizing/compression algorithms & settings as you do in
PhotoShop.
So if Doug's installation of Gallery is so over-compressing his JPEGs
that the distortion has mysteriously managed to look like blown
highlights, it's because he screwed up the software, & was either too
dumb to fix it, or too egotistical to ask for advice from the *very*
helpful folk at the (free) Gallery support forums.
>1. I will accept that a Lossy compression will cause subtle highlight
>changes, making several shades of white the same colour..... but only if
>they were blown out in the first place will they become blown out!
>Compression does not change the tonal range.... just pixels and the
>number of colours.
And besides, if you know what you're doing, it's amazing how small you
can make a JPEG file that's sized for web use, while still keeping it
free of visible compression artifacts. I just tried it out here on one
of my own photos, which I resized to 800 x 629 x 24 bits, & it still
looked razor sharp & free of artifacting right down to a file size of
around 52KB. (In IrfanView, using Lanczos filter for the resize, &
JPEG quality set to 65, for anyone curious.)
And I've managed a website from a slow link myself, back in the day
(64kb ISDN), & even then, 52KB for 800x629 full-colour image was
considered fairly zippy, so these days, there's absolutely zero excuse
for ruining your photos just to make them download quickly.