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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / February 2007Re Photography business for sale
Subject: Re: Photography business for sale From: Andrew Hennell <andrew@hennell.com.au.com> Newsgroups: aus.photo "My first sale to a local newsagent saw me walking out the door with $1200, Half of which was profit." "I'll give you full documentation on who, where and how much it will cost to produce these calendars and make over 100% profit from each sale." So first you tell us half is profit, and then 100% is profit? ------------------------ Oh Andrew... You are a troll. If you spend $5 and get in return $10 half of what you get is profit. $5 is 100% of your outlay so if you get $10 that is is 200% of your original outlay... Half of that is a 100% profit on your outlay. This is not mubo jumbo accounting, it's simple fact.  SignatureFrom Douglas... Wedding and Portrait specialist: http://www.photosbydouglas.com Canvas prints and Digital enlargements: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au Wedding Photography anywhere on the east coast of Australia. > This is not mubo jumbo accounting, it's simple fact. Yes, a fact that you don't get the difference between income and profit I guess. (People who argue endlessly trying to redefine common terminology to suit some agenda, obviously don't have anything better to do :-) MrT. : > This is not mubo jumbo accounting, it's simple fact. : [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : : MrT. In 2001, my (current) accountant told me he'd wipe his hands of me if I kept using him for a reference every time I wanted another loan. I borrowed a total of $120,000 to buy Island land at between $5000 and 25,000 a block. No thanks to a shiny arsed accountant who thought risk taking was crossing the road. Last year I started selling off the blocks of land I borrowed 100% of the purchase price for. The cheapest (on Russell Island) fetched $120,000. I knocked back $800,000 for one on Moreton Island. If I'd listened to these masters of manipulation calling themselves accountants, I wouldn't have made enough money to feed my family, much less retire in comfort. MrT... You sound like all of these "smart" men rolled into one. When you have $5 that is 100% of your stake. If you invest 100% (All) of it in a gamble or other venture and double your money, you have made 100% profit on your stake. Money man or not, you can't change that fact with your attitude or industry approved description. Obviously you have no interest in what I'm selling so why are you peddling your cart to me? Bored, perhaps? Douglas > In 2001, my (current) accountant told me he'd wipe his hands of me if I kept > using him for a reference every time I wanted another loan. See, you know you need an accountant, yet keep trying to prove their terminology wrong. Does it improve your income in any way? MrT. : > In 2001, my (current) accountant told me he'd wipe his hands of me if I : kept [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : : MrT. Truthfully Mr T. If any accountant in the past 30 years had seen what I saw and decided to support me, I'd be a lot better off now than I am. I pay hugely for an accountant to "do my books" in a way which the ATO is satisfied with. The firm I use now has the cheek to offer financial advice to me as to where and how much I should invest... The exact same mob who threatened to wipe their hand of me when I didn't have a quid. May opinion of the Accounting industry? Unprintable! > : "Douglas MacDonald" <photosbydouglas-groups@yahoo.com.au> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > May opinion of the Accounting industry? > Unprintable! Er, based on a pretty small sample, wouldn't you agree? Why didn't you just go to another firm? //Adam F > May opinion of the Accounting industry? > Unprintable! that's true of many of your opinions :) >: > In 2001, my (current) accountant told me he'd wipe his hands of me if I >: kept [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >May opinion of the Accounting industry? >Unprintable! I knew that sooner or later we would agree on something. BTW when you said 100% profit in your Ebay add, I knew exactly what you meant. I guess that makes me a simple bastard that does not understand accounting practices and principles. I really don't know how I cope with life... On Feb 6, 1:29 am, "Douglas MacDonald" <photosbydouglas- gro...@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > Last year I started selling off the blocks of land I borrowed 100% of the > purchase price for. The cheapest (on Russell Island) fetched $120,000. I > knocked back $800,000 for one on Moreton Island. If you're so loaded then why do you still shoot with that crappy Panasonic digital cammy? Oops, I meant "Leica." > Subject: Re: Photography business for sale > From: Andrew Hennell <andrew@hennell.com.au.com> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > This is not mubo jumbo accounting, it's simple fact. I gotta play, this looks like fun: Cost = $5 Sell = $10 Profit =$5 (profit)$5/(sell)$10 = .5 x 100 = 50% Profit MARGIN or $5 X 200% = $10 hench it is 200% PROFIT or $5 cost $10 Sell = $5 Profit can be described as a 100% RETURN ON INVESTMENT or ROI These are the main 3 terminologies used in Business. :-P Mike Brown www.photo.net/photos/mbrown >> Subject: Re: Photography business for sale >> From: Andrew Hennell <andrew@hennell.com.au.com> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Mike Brown > www.photo.net/photos/mbrown I forgot to mention the middle one is also called markup (which we dont use) Thanks Mike I was about to write that definition myself. The confusion is what is the perceived terminology and if most people went into business with the level of misunderstand seen here they would not last long. However deviating from the financial side my experience of selling calendars is somewhat jaundiced. Firstly it tends to be a seasonal business for obvious reasons. However the production schedule of most calendars are 18 months to two years ahead. The problem is that people want to see a large range of calendars in about November and then wait to see what they get in the stockings or presents over Christmas. Then they troll back into the shops and want to buy them for at least half the retail price they were before Christmas! I am loathed to get engaged into a very time sensitive product and expect to make money. Duncan >> Subject: Re: Photography business for sale >> From: Andrew Hennell <andrew@hennell.com.au.com> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Mike Brown > www.photo.net/photos/mbrown > Firstly it tends to be a seasonal business for obvious reasons. However the > production schedule of most calendars are 18 months to two years ahead. I suggest your work flow is seriously flawed if it takes you that long. >The problem is that people want to see a large range of calendars in about > November and then wait to see what they get in the stockings or presents > over Christmas. Which is exactly the major market for Calendars, those buying them as gifts. Doesn't make the market any less real as long as you undersatnd what it is. >Then they troll back into the shops and want to buy them for > at least half the retail price they were before Christmas! Which is when you sell the "remainders". > I am loathed to get engaged into a very time sensitive product and expect to > make money. Sure, there are already a lot of others making money and the competition is fierce. MrT. It's not my production schedule that's flawed BTW it's what happens in the Commercial world of calendar publishing!!! >> Firstly it tends to be a seasonal business for obvious reasons. However > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > MrT. > It's not my production schedule that's flawed BTW it's what happens in the > Commercial world of calendar publishing!!! Funny then I managed to do one in 1/3rd that time, and it's not my usual line of work. MrT. >> It's not my production schedule that's flawed BTW it's what happens in the >> Commercial world of calendar publishing!!! > >Funny then I managed to do one in 1/3rd that time, and it's not my usual >line of work. I must say that, when Duncan said: >"Duncan" <writeoneline@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message >news:eq9t24$212$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... >> Firstly it tends to be a seasonal business for obvious reasons. However >> the production schedule of most calendars are 18 months to two years ahead. I took him to mean you can produce the things well in advance then get on with other projects. In fact, there's no reason you couldn't produce the bloody things decades in advance if all you wanted was the *calendar* and not the school holidays and any movable political feasts. :-) Cheers, Phred. SignatureppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID >In fact, there's no reason you couldn't > produce the bloody things decades in advance if all you wanted was the > *calendar* and not the school holidays and any movable political > feasts. :-) Or photo's that date, like some celebrities. But universal calendars are already available for the next 200 years if you are not worried about holidays etc. MrT. The cycle works like this: This year - 2008 calendars will be on sale at the end of the year. The FINISHED product i.e. design and layout is ready by Jan 2007 for trade shows with print proofs. The origination of the calendar would have begun in mid 2006! The cycle is like that so that orders can be taken at the trade fairs and final print runs are made from the orders taken up to August. A print run is scheduled to run late August on final numbers. Any designs that fail to meet a viable print run are deleted. This way a company can know what to print and how many so that as soon as they are in the warehouse they are shipped out and so leave space for other stock. It also means that the profit is already made and no remaining stock of the design is left. Simple economics and logistics. Duncan >> It's not my production schedule that's flawed BTW it's what happens in >> the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MrT. > The cycle works like this: > This year - 2008 calendars will be on sale at the end of the year. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Duncan What crap, the finished product is done after August by your own admission. (only a few months before delivery) A sample is made 12 months before which does not need final details etc. So why would you need another 12 months before that? (as in your original claim, or even six months as you now claim) Takes you that long to do the photographs? Regardless, what does it matter if you are doing it every year, you still get cash flow even if it took 3 years for each calendar! Of course the first couple of years are a problem if you have no reserves :-) MrT. As usual Mr T takes a contrary point of view to someone else calling what is an industry standard, 'crap'. Perhaps a technical term he is used to hearing in his daily life. You run your 'business'? the way you do it but when you start to refute what actually happens then you lose all credibility as you have done on several occasions in this group. Try reading what I wrote I said August 2006 origination starts and Aug 2007 print production. Read what's being written rather than going off on what you want it to mean! Duncan >> The cycle works like this: >> This year - 2008 calendars will be on sale at the end of the year. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > MrT. : As usual Mr T takes a contrary point of view to someone else calling what is : an industry standard, 'crap'. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] : > : > MrT. This argument is stupid. UK systems are still in the dark ages if you need any more lead time than a month. Same goes with you MrT. If you can't get your product to market in a few months, you are working in the past. Even using Hong Kong printers, I can get finished calendars to market in 6 weeks. I can deliver faster than those who use conventional offset printers for their output. The system I use is computer to printing plate direct or (faster) direct digital printing. I certainly can't compete with the likes of Steve Parish and his $2 specials who, incidentally throws away more calendars each year than I print but I most certainly can could) compete in a niche market with Limited edition photographs. Anyway... The fellow who bought the business has an order for calendars from me that will ensure his operating profits this year make his purchase well and truly worth the effort. Thanks for all your input. Much of it irrelevant but that's the texture of a newsgroup, eh? Douglas The market is changing Douglas and digital presses are making a shift to shorter lead times. However most calendar companies are using 6 or 8 colour Heidelberg's and so are still locked into the 18 month cycle as they are by nature fairly conservative businesses. The main issue was having extremely time dated material being left in stock when the demand had gone. With a CTP or an Indigo they can be called off on demand and so not have to worry about the lead times. Duncan > : As usual Mr T takes a contrary point of view to someone else calling > what [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Douglas > This argument is stupid. UK systems are still in the dark ages if you need > any more lead time than a month. Same goes with you MrT. If you can't get > your product to market in a few months, you are working in the past. Even > using Hong Kong printers, I can get finished calendars to market in 6 weeks. I agree, however I have only done a calendar once, did use an OS printer, and did the job in about 3-4 months from conception to customer delivery. I'm quite sure you can do it in less time with experience. The only real lead time Duncan seems to be talking about is 12 months for exhibition samples. MrT. > Try reading what I wrote I said August 2006 origination starts and Aug 2007 > print production. > Read what's being written rather than going off on what you want it to mean! So this isn't your quote that I responded to? >> Firstly it tends to be a seasonal business for obvious reasons. However >> the production schedule of most calendars are 18 months to two years ahead. And no one else seems to think "18 months to two years" is really necessary. Attack me if you want, but I suggest it's not my credibility on the line, I'm not in the calendar business. MrT. > I gotta play, this looks like fun: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > These are the main 3 terminologies used in Business. You must be the only one who can make *200%* profit by simply doubling your original capital though! (I guess you were sick when they did percentages at your school :-) MrT. >> I gotta play, this looks like fun: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > MrT. I know how percentages work, its an accounting terminology > >> Cost = $5 > >> Sell = $10 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > your original capital though! > > (I guess you were sick when they did percentages at your school :-) > I know how percentages work, its an accounting terminology What crap! Even an accountant would baulk at claiming a $5 profit on a $5 investment is a *200%* profit. Can you provide any evidence for that claim? *Profit* (and loss) are shown as a dollar figure, (as are income and expenditure etc.) Profit margin and ROI as a percentage. MrT. |
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