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Photo Forum / General Photo Topics / Australian Photography / December 2006Australia a free country - Yeh Right. Rex Dupain questioned over beach photos
THE 1937 photograph of a bronzed sunbather by Max Dupain is the most famous image of Australia's beach culture - but so suspicious have authorities become of cameras on beaches that his photographer son, Rex Dupain, was threatened with arrest while working on a new book about Bondi. After pulling out his $8000 Hasselblad to snap a couple of backpackers sleeping on the sand, Dupain - one of Australia's most celebrated photographers - found himself surrounded by four police officers who confiscated his camera. Although it is legal to photograph anyone in a public place, Dupain found himself questioned for 25 minutes by the police. "Lifeguards and the police are taking the law into their own hands and they regard anyone with a camera as a potential pervert," Dupain said yesterday. "We sit at home and watch the close-up of people's lives on disturbing television reality shows but someone taking pictures at the beach is seen as a threat. Our days as a free society are completely over." Dupain started taking shots at Bondi three years ago for his new book, The Colour of Bondi, and wanted to capture the authentic look of the beach by photographing people who were relaxed and unaware they were being snapped. He was questioned by lifeguards and the police on at least half a dozen occasions while working on the project, but said the final confrontation was the most disturbing. "They thought the Hasselblad was some sort of trick camera because they couldn't find a display screen," he said. "They wouldn't believe it wasn't a digital camera." The photographer said catching people unaware was "how we learn about ourselves". Dupain approached the local Waverley council for a permit of the type issued to people filming television commercials so he would not be harassed. "They said, 'Sure, it will only cost you $160 an hour'." > Dupain approached the local Waverley council for a permit of the type > issued to people filming television commercials so he would not be > harassed. "They said, 'Sure, it will only cost you $160 an hour'." See, just as with everything else these days, it *IS* all about the money. State sanctioned extortion, with police part of the extortion racket. It's only going to get worse because people seem happy to put up with it unfortunately. MrT. >> Dupain approached the local Waverley council for a permit of the type >> issued to people filming television commercials so he would not be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > MrT. Would have been a nice court case if the cop had dropped the $8000 Hasselblad. > Would have been a nice court case if the cop had dropped the $8000 > Hasselblad. No it wouldn't. Most Judges/Magistrates are not known for their intellectual abilities or logical reasoning unfortunately. Most know who pays their wages and will not rock the boat unless there is something in it for them. The likely outcome is that the judge would say it should be insured, and award you the excess minus court costs, thus leaving you out of pocket. If your pockets are deep enough, you would probably win on appeal to a higher court though. MrT. What a load of crock!!! > > Would have been a nice court case if the cop had dropped the $8000 > > Hasselblad. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > MrT. > What a load of crock!!! pretty much. that's how the legal system is and it's a crock. If you're planning a shoot in a public place and you know this sort of thing happens then it would be wise to go into the local cop shop and tell them what you are doing. Leave them a card if you have one and also in this Bondi shoot the Lifeguards. You could say that it's xyz project and you'd appreciate them keeping an eye on you just in case anyone tries to rip off your gear. Not an unreasonable request and one I'd be happier doing. Someone watching my back when I'm out on my own is welcomed. Who knows you could get a following if you have a website it could create extra valuable traffic and the possibility of a commission. Now how much would a shoot for the cops be eh? First dips at a function and you could sell to a newspaper or prime position on the beach for an Iron Man event. Stuff a council license, councils may charge on their property but who's property is it to begin with, ours. They hold in trust to look after it isn't theirs. In London the Mayor Ken Livingston has had a go at photographers in Trafalgar Square as there has been a heighten paedophile scaremongering going on. There are supposed to be signs up warning about taking pictures. Of course new terrorist laws can also be used against us innocents just for taking a picture. Changing times and social awareness of what could happen leads us to have to think laterally and turn the adversity into a working advantage. Don't get hung up on the dross around the problem work with it and see how best you can use it to your marketing advantage. Duncan > If you're planning a shoot in a public place and you know this sort of thing > happens then it would be wise to go into the local cop shop and tell them [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > request and one I'd be happier doing. Someone watching my back when I'm out > on my own is welcomed. Ha, they'd just tell you not to photograph whether they have any authority to or not. > Stuff a council license, councils may charge on their property but who's > property is it to begin with, ours. They hold in trust to look after it > isn't theirs. Yea right. It's never stopped a beuracrat before, and it only seems to be getting worse. > In London the Mayor Ken Livingston has had a go at photographers in > Trafalgar Square as there has been a heighten paedophile scaremongering [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > hung up on the dross around the problem work with it and see how best you > can use it to your marketing advantage. Taking photo's of the inside of your gaol cell maybe? (you'd need to hide the spy camera pretty well, they often do a cavity search I'm told :-) MrT. > What a load of crock!!! Quite possibly, give it a go and let us know how you get on? MrT. >> Dupain approached the local Waverley council for a permit of the type >> issued to people filming television commercials so he would not be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's only going to get worse because people seem happy to put up with it > unfortunately. Well if this happened to me, I wouldn't give them the camera, and wouldn't explain myself or my actions. About 2 years ago at Bondi, I saw a group of police copping abuse from a group of 10 lebs, they were yelling stuff like, we know where ya shista lifs,, we gunna schtab her... The police did NADDA.... So I can't imagine them forcibly tackling someone for refusing to hand over a camera. If they do then I'd sue their arses. > MrT. > Well if this happened to me, I wouldn't give them the camera, Two police officers wouldn't ask nicely before they took it. >and wouldn't explain myself or my actions. And would be put in a cell for resisting arrest. Of course you would be released without charge once they had proven their point to you of WHO is actually in control. > About 2 years ago at Bondi, I saw a group of police copping abuse from a > group of 10 lebs, they were yelling stuff like, we know where ya shista > lifs,, we gunna schtab her... The police did NADDA.... Sure, just make sure you have ten big mates with you when you try it, you should be OK in that case. >So I can't imagine > them forcibly tackling someone for refusing to hand over a camera. If they > do then I'd sue their arses. Good luck, I hope you have deep pockets. MrT. >> Well if this happened to me, I wouldn't give them the camera, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >MrT. Common law does not allow an arrest for questioning. > Common law does not allow an arrest for questioning. Of course not, you don't need to be arrested to be detained for questioning though. MrT. >> Common law does not allow an arrest for questioning. > >Of course not, you don't need to be arrested to be detained for questioning >though. > >MrT. They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that you have committed a crime. Sorry, I just believe that the police are trying to do a job when they are throown a lot of rubbish that they should not be concerning themselves with when they have more important things to be attending. Unfortunately because of this, they have no trainning in what they are handling, so a few police use intimidation techniques to get them through. But, this is where a photographer should be aware of your rights and you should stand up for yourself in a polite and respectful way. Getting smart with them will only make life harder for yourself. And I don't believe in scare mongering. > They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that > you have committed a crime. Yes you can certainly be released once you establish their belief was not reasonable. > Sorry, I just believe that the police are trying to do a job when they > are throown a lot of rubbish that they should not be concerning [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > way. > Getting smart with them will only make life harder for yourself. And "standing up for yourself" *IS* called "getting smart" by a police officer, so you are simply contradicting yourself! > And I don't believe in scare mongering. Most people don't until something happens to them. David Hicks probably didn't once upon a time either :-) MrT. >> They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that >> you have committed a crime. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >MrT. And what has happened to you that places all police in a big bad scarey nazi category? > And what has happened to you that places all police in a big bad > scarey nazi category? Where did I say all? Some police are amazing citizens. The problem is that quite a few others do it for the power trip, (like judges and politicians and other bureaucrats) and sometimes you run into them. Think yourself lucky if you haven't yet. MrT. > They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that > you have committed a crime. yeah, well look at the US..... they have this in their constitiution.... it even states reasonable cause to included a statement by a witness or something more concrete..... their new legal big wig (bush's choice) decided reasonable cause did not indeed require such solid evidence.... confliciting with their own constitution. were not in kansas any more kiddies. As a result of extremism and over-vocal minority groups, freedom is not what it used to be.... kosh > > They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that > > you have committed a crime. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > were not in kansas any more kiddies. As a result of extremism and > over-vocal minority groups, freedom is not what it used to be.... Trouble is we were never in Kansas, and Australia has *never* had a bill of rights. MrT. >> They can only detain you though if they have a reasonable belief that >> you have committed a crime. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >kosh That's right, and the last time I checked, Kansas isn't in Australia either? So What are you worried about? In fact, the constitution of Australia has nothing to do with our rights.. it's all about the Governement and how it is setup and to be run... American law is nothing like Australian law. Like chalk and cheese. >>> Dupain approached the local Waverley council for a permit of the type >>> issued to people filming television commercials so he would not be [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > lifs,, we gunna schtab her... The police did NADDA.... So I can't imagine > them forcibly tackling someone for refusing to hand over a camera. 10 Lebs (plus all their mates) vs 2 Police or 1 Photographer vs 2 Police Not hard to see why the lebs get away with murder but a photographer gets hassled for taking photos. >If they > do then I'd sue their arses. You could try - do you seriously think you'd get anywhere. Resisting arrest, failure to obey police direction - by the time you get a chance to sue them, your already a convicted criminal - it's stacked in their favour. >> MrT. |
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