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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / January 2006

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I waited too long... (Nikon Scanner ?)

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JimKramer - 24 Jan 2006 21:33 GMT
I had hoped to get a KM DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II, this month, but B&H
lists them as out of stock and the sales rep said his gut feeling was
that they weren't going to see any more, ever.

So... that leaves me with, as I see it, two viable options, both from
Nikon (unless they decide to call it quits too) the Coolscan V ED or
the Super Coolscan 5000 ED.  So the question becomes other than the
price difference which is significant, almost ½, the scanning speed,
again almost half and 42bit vs. 48bit, what's the real difference?

Anyone used one or the other or both? Thoughts, feeling, alternatives,
and comments would be appreciated.  Is the included software useable or
should I look for third party stuff now?

Thanks,
Jim
David Dyer-Bennet - 24 Jan 2006 21:57 GMT
I can't comment on 5000 vs. V, as I only have the 5000 (previously had
the 2000).  The V does look like a rather sweet price/performance
point.  I got the 5000 and the sf201 slide feeder, because I have a
lot of old slides to deal with.

> Anyone used one or the other or both? Thoughts, feeling, alternatives,
> and comments would be appreciated.  Is the included software useable or
> should I look for third party stuff now?

But I can comment on the software.  I've used only the Nikon software
with it, and I'm adequately happy with it.  I take the approach of
attempting to get all the information out of the film, leaving the
rest of the work to be done in Photoshop later.  
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ajuk.uk@gmail.com - 24 Jan 2006 23:06 GMT
I think there is plenty enought developed film in the world to keep
scanners going for a long time yet, don't worry.
Marjolein Katsma - 25 Jan 2006 00:20 GMT
JimKramer (jimG@jlkramer.net) wrote in news:1138138390.936012.144900
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I had hoped to get a KM DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II, this month, but B&H
> lists them as out of stock and the sales rep said his gut feeling was
> that they weren't going to see any more, ever.

Be glad. :)

> So... that leaves me with, as I see it, two viable options, both from
> Nikon (unless they decide to call it quits too) the Coolscan V ED or
> the Super Coolscan 5000 ED.  So the question becomes other than the
> price difference which is significant, almost «, the scanning speed,
> again almost half and 42bit vs. 48bit, what's the real difference?

I just bought the Nikon V ED (LS-50); I don't have many slides to scan,
but a lot of negative film, which would make the 5000 too expensive for
me compared to advantages such as a firewire interface.

I considered the KM 5400 II - but not for long. For starters, all tests
I've seen state that the sharpness isn't any different from that with
the LS-50. On top of that, The Nikon has real ICE because it has an
infrared sensor, which the KM doesn't have; also the Nikon uses three
colored leds to do the color separation whereas the KM has only a single
(white) led - I have not seen any tests specific to that, but it just
makes more sense to me.

And a big issue: While the KM has good optics and sharpness, it's built
like a toy, with plastic cogwheels*. The Nikon is a lot heavier and not
for nothing: all metal, it's built like a tank. Only possible
disadvantage: that makes it a bit noisy as well (which doesn't really
bother me).

I don't know about the 5000, but the LS-50 comes with a film adapter and
a slide adapter, but NOT with a film holder. But if you have any single-
negative strips (or single unmounted slides), or film strips with
damaged sprocket holes, or strips that aren't flat enough, you *will*
need one: the FH-3 should have been included IMO.

I've had teh LS-50 only a short while, so I have not much experience
with it yet, but first trials make me very happy!

*) I heard that many machines were returned - this may be one of the
causes: plastic cogwheels don't sound too reliable to me. Maybe good
enough for an occasional scan, not if you have loads to do. This may be
the reason it's no longer in stock - apart from KM pulling out of the
photography business, which may or may not include scanners...

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Tony   Polson - 25 Jan 2006 00:53 GMT
>I had hoped to get a KM DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II, this month, but B&H
>lists them as out of stock and the sales rep said his gut feeling was
>that they weren't going to see any more, ever.

You can breathe a sigh of relief.  

The DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II was optically good, but mechanically, it
was a pile of junk.  The warranty returns rate was very high, and the
scanner could not cope with hard work.       

I bought one, returned it for a replacement within a week, and then
found the replacement failed within a month.  The camera store
couldn't offer a new replacement but offered me a "refurbished" model
with a substantial rebate.  I declined, and chose the Nikon Coolscan
LS5000ED instead.  

I have no regrets - it is a robust and reliable scanner and the detail
it produces is every bit as good as the DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II,
despite the latter's claimed higher resolution.  

I strongly recommend the Nikon slide feeder SF-210 if you scan a lot
of mounted slides.
Alan Browne - 25 Jan 2006 02:20 GMT
Tony Polson wrote:

> The DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II was optically good, but mechanically, it
> was a pile of junk.

Methinks you're on an anti-minolta rant.

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William Graham - 25 Jan 2006 02:46 GMT
> Tony Polson wrote:
>
>> The DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II was optically good, but mechanically, it
>> was a pile of junk.
>
> Methinks you're on an anti-minolta rant.

I hate his use of past tense....I just got mine about a month ago....:^)
DD - 25 Jan 2006 12:11 GMT
> Tony Polson wrote:
>
> > The DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II was optically good, but mechanically, it
> > was a pile of junk.
>
> Methinks you're on an anti-minolta rant.

Who isn't?

You must be feeling like a bit of a twat now that you have so much
invested in equipment supplied by a company that has pulled up its
teepees and moved on...

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www.dallasdahms.com
Tell your tits to stop staring at my eyes.

Father Kodak - 25 Jan 2006 10:15 GMT
>I strongly recommend the Nikon slide feeder SF-210 if you scan a lot
>of mounted slides.

Does anyone have experience with the Roll Film Adapter SA-30?
no one noteworthy - 25 Jan 2006 01:10 GMT
I had hoped to get a KM DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II, this month, but B&H
lists them as out of stock and the sales rep said his gut feeling was
that they weren't going to see any more, ever.

So... that leaves me with, as I see it, two viable options, both from
Nikon (unless they decide to call it quits too) the Coolscan V ED or
the Super Coolscan 5000 ED.  So the question becomes other than the
price difference which is significant, almost ½, the scanning speed,
again almost half and 42bit vs. 48bit, what's the real difference?

Anyone used one or the other or both? Thoughts, feeling, alternatives,
and comments would be appreciated.  Is the included software useable or
should I look for third party stuff now?

Thanks,
Jim
--------------------
I use a 5000 ED daily in my business. Nothing wrong with the scanner, It's a
honey but the Nikon software is total rubbish. It crashes with no
predictability of when or what causes it. Vuescan needs profiles and much
fiddling to get it working properly and Silverfast is a variation of the
Chinese water torture trick.

Last month I bought a new Epson flat bed to replace my 4870 which did only
mildly acceptable scans of 35mm film although on anything larger is was
good. I bought the latest and greatest Professional scanner from Epson
(again - the 3rd Epson in a row), a Perfection 4490.

This scanner does all sizes of film at least as well as the Nikons. IMHO,
better and has all the features I originally bought the Nikon for plus it
scans photographs too. It's interface is bullet-proof, easy to use and on
full auto absolutely magnificent. More than I can say about the Coolscan.

Annika1980 (Bret) has one of the Minolta scanners. He reported it had
warranty issues and he's not the only one. Even if you managed to find one,
getting it fixed when it craps out would be real problem.
Father Kodak - 25 Jan 2006 10:17 GMT
>I use a 5000 ED daily in my business. Nothing wrong with the scanner, It's a
>honey but the Nikon software is total rubbish. It crashes with no
>predictability of when or what causes it. Vuescan needs profiles and much
>fiddling to get it working properly and Silverfast is a variation of the
>Chinese water torture trick.

OK, so you don't like the Nikon scan software.  You don't appear to
like either Vuescan or Silverfast.  What scan software do you use?
Any chance you could provide the details of why you don't like each
software?

>Last month I bought a new Epson flat bed to replace my 4870 which did only
>mildly acceptable scans of 35mm film although on anything larger is was
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>scans photographs too. It's interface is bullet-proof, easy to use and on
>full auto absolutely magnificent. More than I can say about the Coolscan.

Doesn't Epson  bundle in Silverfat with the 4990?  Is that what you
are using?

Abba Kodak
no... it's not! - 25 Jan 2006 11:14 GMT
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----m0o0m

>
> OK, so you don't like the Nikon scan software.  You don't appear to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Abba Kodak

There is no alternative to the Nikonscan software with a coolscan when you
don't like 3rd party stuff. It is just plain awful stuff.

Epson provide their own software "Epsonscan" and also give out silverfast. I
never bother to unpack it after the disaster of the first version. I find
the Epsonscan more than adequate for a busy production shop. If I were a
pedantic Photographer who buggerised around with each scan until I got it
just perfect, I might not be so pleased.
Annika1980 - 26 Jan 2006 07:42 GMT
>Annika1980 (Bret) has one of the Minolta scanners.

Actually, I have two.  I have an old Scan Dual II with a burnt out
scanning bulb (I probably oughta get that replaced soon, while I can).
Also, I am scanning some slides right now with a Scan Elite 5400. As
others have mentioned, it gives great results, but is more
temperamental than my wife.  It grunts and groans and I'm always
wondering when it's gonna give up the ghost for good.
Al Denelsbeck - 26 Jan 2006 12:37 GMT
"Annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com> wrote in news:1138261368.244860.49190
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>>Annika1980 (Bret) has one of the Minolta scanners.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> temperamental than my wife.  It grunts and groans and I'm always
> wondering when it's gonna give up the ghost for good.

       I had the same problem. You need to lose some weight.

       Oh, you meant the scanner! Never mind...

    - Al.

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Alan Browne - 28 Jan 2006 22:39 GMT
>>Annika1980 (Bret) has one of the Minolta scanners.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> temperamental than my wife.  It grunts and groans and I'm always
> wondering when it's gonna give up the ghost for good.

I've run on the order of 4000 slides/negs  (probably more like 6000)
through my 5400 and as far as I can tell, the noises are the same as in
the beginning.

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William Graham - 29 Jan 2006 07:30 GMT
>>>Annika1980 (Bret) has one of the Minolta scanners.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> through my 5400 and as far as I can tell, the noises are the same as in
> the beginning.

I have no trouble mechanically....The only noise mine makes is the sound of
the motor driving the slide carrier in and out. The software is a little
temperamental....Sometimes it thinks the 5400 isn't ready, or isn't
"connected" to my computer, and I have to restart the program. But once its
going, it just goes and goes, and the Kodak utilities really do a great job
of cleaning up the slides.....One of these days, I will try to scan some
negatives........
That_Rich - 29 Jan 2006 07:55 GMT
>.Sometimes it thinks the 5400 isn't ready, or isn't
>"connected" to my computer, and I have to restart the program

Windoz (?)
Seems damn near everything runs that way.

Start app > app doesn't work correctly> restart app> nah> reboot
computer.... all is fine.... ..... er... maybe... >control panel>
blah, blah , blah.

Lather> rinse> repeat..... turn up da music....
all is fine now.

Bill Gate$ for president.

Have fun ;)

RP©
William Graham - 29 Jan 2006 09:33 GMT
>>.Sometimes it thinks the 5400 isn't ready, or isn't
>>"connected" to my computer, and I have to restart the program
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> RP©

Actually, I can't blame this problem on Bill Gates.....In general, since I
bought my new machine (about a year ago) I have had almost no Windows type
troubles. I think I am doing something wrong in the start-up sequence of the
5400 and it's software. I am either turning on the 5400 before loading the
software, or the other way around. At 70, my short term memory is pretty
poor, so I have to work with this kind of stuff for awhile before I, "get in
the groove" and begin to do it consistently right.
That_Rich - 29 Jan 2006 17:40 GMT
>Actually, I can't blame this problem on Bill Gates.....In general, since I
>bought my new machine (about a year ago) I have had almost no Windows type
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>poor, so I have to work with this kind of stuff for awhile before I, "get in
>the groove" and begin to do it consistently right.

The XP I run here *seems* very stable but gremlins pop up here and
there. For some reason occasionally while copying large files I lose
the USB drivers.
About 25% of the time I need to close and restart PS and play around
in the control panel to get my tablet to work properly with PS.

Hope you sort out your scanner issues. It is very frustrating having
to stop and restart in the middle of something.

RP©
William Graham - 29 Jan 2006 22:00 GMT
>>Actually, I can't blame this problem on Bill Gates.....In general, since I
>>bought my new machine (about a year ago) I have had almost no Windows type
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> RP©

Yes. - I am only having trouble right at start up. I think I should power on
the 5400 first, and then start the program that runs it. Sometimes I start
the program before it is fully warmed up, and the program thinks that it
isn't connected to my computer. Also, there are several different ways I can
use the machine. Right now, I am using it from Photoshop 7. That is, I start
with the Photoshop 7 program, go to "import" and tell it to import the image
from the 5400 scanner (which it somehow knows is attached to my computer)
Then it (PS 7) brings up the scanner software and tries to scan something
with it. - If all else is ready, it will work OK, and do it.....But if
anything isn't ready yet, it will give me some kind of error message, such
as, "Your scanner isn't connected to your computer. - Please check your
connections." And I don't know whether this error message is coming from the
scanner software, or from PS7, or from Bill Gates. (Windows) - I hate error
messages for this reason. And because they don't use the same vocabulary
that the help files use. Bill Gates was very careful to not hire anyone to
write error messages that spoke the same language as the people he hired to
write the help files.....And, he housed these people in separate buildings,
and, if he ever got word that anyone from one of the two groups ever was
caught talking to someone from the other group, he fired them
immediately.....:^)
That_Rich - 29 Jan 2006 22:14 GMT
>>>Actually, I can't blame this problem on Bill Gates.....In general, since I
>>>bought my new machine (about a year ago) I have had almost no Windows type
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>caught talking to someone from the other group, he fired them
>immediately.....:^)

If you are running XP, try going to Start Button> Administrative
tools> Event viewer, then click on either application or system. Often
your error messages are logged here. Perhaps you will be able to run
down what is causing the errors.

RP©
William Graham - 29 Jan 2006 22:19 GMT
"That_Rich" <rich@wrongaddress.net> wrote in message And I don't know
whether this error message is coming from the
>>scanner software, or from PS7, or from Bill Gates. (Windows) - >>
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> RP©

Thanks.....I'll try that.......
Alan Browne - 25 Jan 2006 02:18 GMT
> I had hoped to get a KM DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II, this month, but B&H
> lists them as out of stock and the sales rep said his gut feeling was
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> price difference which is significant, almost ½, the scanning speed,
> again almost half and 42bit vs. 48bit, what's the real difference?

Sorry to say that it depends on your needs.  The *real* difference
between 42 and 48 bits (2 bits per channel) is very hard to distinguish.
 Those extra bits all go to the darkest part of your slides / negs.

IMO they do not help at all for the "black" in slides;  they *might*
help for detail in the blacks on color negative (the whites in the
print) as that doesn't seem as dense as the unexposed dead blacks on slides.

I'm buying the 9000 ED shortly.  So I could sell you my 5400.  But it's
the older version (cold cathode flourescent).  The Nikon 5000 (not sure
about the V) uses LED's (as does the more recent Minolta 5400 Mk II)
which is more consistent wrt to color process.

B&H is not the last store on earth, so you could check around...

Check out news:comp.periphs.scanners and get their opinions as well.

Cheers,
Alan

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ajuk.uk@gmail.com - 26 Jan 2006 00:53 GMT
Looked around found iut at a place called dbuys.com, so don't worry.
 
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