I'm real tempted by the Nikkor 200 f/4 micro but I have a 70-200 2.8 VR
and I'm wondering if this lens will also be useful for normal range
shooting or it's a wash quality-wise. The 70-200 is really nice, will
the macro be even better sharpness, color & bokeh given it's a prime or
worse at long range and it's really only useful for macro work?
I understand the 200 gets a certain amount of polygonal bladed aperture
highlights in the bokeh under certain conditions. Are there other Nikon
macros that don't have this problem or with softer out-of-focus rendering?
Also, this is going on a D70 so that's like a 300mm macro and perhaps
impractical hand held. I would appreciate the extra reach for
butterflies & such but not if I need a tripod. I'm not clear if
hand-holdability is really different at 1:1 whether at 6mm or 200mm?
I expect to upgrade to a D200 in time so if there's an old lens which
performs well like the MF 200 micro maybe that's an option. If this lens
is really only for macro work, AF isn't much of an issue. If
hand-holding is only possible with a 60mm or 105 and the image quality
is there, I'd rather not spend the premium on a 200 because I'm not a
big tripod fan. I've got a nice 2-element +2 diopter closeup lens for
the 70-200 VR which is useful for stabilized hand held butterfly shots
but of course the image quality does suffer, so maybe a shorter 'true'
macro would fill the gaps in my setup better... but then that needs an
extension ring to get to 1:1. Could I put an extension ring on the
70-200 & maybe even have VR with a D200? I know that won't work on a D70.
OK enough questions <grin>. I want the very best quality since I can
already get to 1:1 with the diopter setup.
Chris Loffredo - 24 Jan 2006 18:31 GMT
> I'm real tempted by the Nikkor 200 f/4 micro but I have a 70-200 2.8 VR
> and I'm wondering if this lens will also be useful for normal range
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> extension ring to get to 1:1. Could I put an extension ring on the
> 70-200 & maybe even have VR with a D200? I know that won't work on a D70.
First, I don't have and have never used the 200mm micro, so what I say
about it is hearsay.
Several magazine tests rated it as far behind the "normal" 200mm f/4.0
for non-macro use.
The 200mm f/4.0 AI or later (which I do have) is one of Nikon's most
underrated lenses, being as sharp as the 180mm F/2.8 ED at equal
apertures (except at f/4.0 where it is very good, but a bit behind the
180). It also has an excellent reputation when used as a macro lens on a
bellows or with tubes (haven't used it this way myself).
As far as bokeh is concerned, I mostly used the non-micro 200mm mostly
with B&W in days before I even knew bokeh existed, but my old prints
show no harsh bokeh at all.
IMHO I'd avoid the "micro" version...
Robert Brace - 24 Jan 2006 19:23 GMT
> I'm real tempted by the Nikkor 200 f/4 micro but I have a 70-200 2.8 VR
> and I'm wondering if this lens will also be useful for normal range
> shooting or it's a wash quality-wise. The 70-200 is really nice, will the
> macro be even better sharpness, color & bokeh given it's a prime or worse
> at long range and it's really only useful for macro work?
(snipped for brevity)
> OK enough questions <grin>. I want the very best quality since I can
> already get to 1:1 with the diopter setup.
I have & use the Nikkor AF f/4 Micro and have no complaints at all with it's
micro operation. I have used it for film (F100, F4, F5) and Digital D2
Series with equal results. Currently I have paired it with a PN-11 tube and
a RRS B87 brace to allow up to 1.5X and increase support integrity. Manual
focus is a must with this setup. I don't find it at all inconvenient and it
works well for me.
Bob
Paul Furman - 25 Jan 2006 18:50 GMT
See the thread "What has good Bokeh" where I did a search on pbase for
sample images to assess the bokeh of the three Micro-Nikkors. It seems
to me the 200 performs best but hard to be sure. I even found a horrible
example with the 200.
> I'm real tempted by the Nikkor 200 f/4 micro but I have a 70-200 2.8 VR
> and I'm wondering if this lens will also be useful for normal range
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> OK enough questions <grin>. I want the very best quality since I can
> already get to 1:1 with the diopter setup.

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Rita Ä Berkowitz - 25 Jan 2006 19:32 GMT
> See the thread "What has good Bokeh" where I did a search on pbase for
> sample images to assess the bokeh of the three Micro-Nikkors. It seems
> to me the 200 performs best but hard to be sure. I even found a
> horrible example with the 200.
If you really want to buy a 200mm lens I would buy the 200mm f/2G ED-IF AF-S
VR Nikkor, but since you already have the 70-200mm and your interest seems
to lean towards macro so I would skip this altogether and go with the 105mm
Micro Nikkor. I have the 105mm and find it a great lens. It gives you more
working distance over the 60mm. The 200mm F/4 will increase this working
distance even more. This does have benefits if it works for your shooting
style. Also, some people find the bokeh of the 105 a bit harsh, but I don't
find this the case so it might be according to taste. I use my 105mm
exclusively handheld and don't find it a problem.
Rita
Paul Furman - 25 Jan 2006 20:58 GMT
>>See the thread "What has good Bokeh" where I did a search on pbase for
>>sample images to assess the bokeh of the three Micro-Nikkors. It seems
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> find this the case so it might be according to taste. I use my 105mm
> exclusively handheld and don't find it a problem.
Now I'm leaning toward the Tamron SP AF DI 90mm f/2.8 Macro after
looking at the bokeh of the Nikkors. The Tamron 90 is a medium length
compromise. The 200 looks darn good but I'm still afraid it's too long
for hand held and it does get polygonal OOF circles at middle apertures.
One thing that concerns me about bokeh other than the background is
bright highlights on a shiny insect like this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/47888241 which can come out horrible with a
closeup lens on my 70-200 and can look bad on the 200 micro:
http://www.pbase.com/image/37251259
Comparing the $450 Tamron to the $650 Nikkor 105 it is ugly & akward
with an extending front but the OOF is more important to me for nature
shots. I'd go for the $1200 Nikkor 200 if I knew it was handholdable and
if I had a better assesment of the bokeh.
BTW here's the bokeh comparison photos I found:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/bokeh/micro-nikkors>
Rita Ä Berkowitz - 25 Jan 2006 23:14 GMT
> Now I'm leaning toward the Tamron SP AF DI 90mm f/2.8 Macro after
> looking at the bokeh of the Nikkors. The Tamron 90 is a medium length
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> background is bright highlights on a shiny insect like this:
> http://www.pbase.com/image/47888241
Looking at this pic and taking into consideration the angle at which it was
taken I can tell that the fly is behind the focus band. The fly is
definitely OOF. I agree with you about the slightly blown highlights on the
fly. The EXIF info says that a flash wasn't used, but I have a feeling it
may have due to the strong reflections and shadowing. I'm not knocking the
picture, but I think he has two separate issues with it. If he had better
focus and different lighting that picture would pop. The area in front of
the fly is in perfect focus and it is sharp while the fly is not. I have
seen lots of images from people using this lens and they look good. That
said, I don't think you can go wrong with the Tamron, especially for the
price..
Rita
Paul Furman - 25 Jan 2006 23:49 GMT
>> ...One thing that concerns me about bokeh other than the
>> background is bright highlights on a shiny insect like this:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> said, I don't think you can go wrong with the Tamron, especially for the
> price..
Here's what I don't want:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay-Area/San-Francisco/our-g
arden/more/2005-06-19-bees&PG=2&PIC=8>
LOL! (that's a 2x TC plus a closeup lens & harsh lighting)
Here's some freaky flare with the same setup due to so many pieces of
glass not designed for closeup:
<http://localhost/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/macro-test&PG=1&PIC=5>
Marjolein Katsma - 31 Jan 2006 20:45 GMT
> Here's some freaky flare with the same setup due to so many pieces of
> glass not designed for closeup:
> <http://localhost/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/macro-test&PG=1&PIC
> =5>
I guess that should be:
http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/macro-test&PG=1
&PIC=5
(Can't see your computer ;-))

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