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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / December 2005Surprised no-one's mentioned it...
http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... Martin > http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > > There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... > > Martin December 20 in the Northern hemi. Still a day to go. > http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > > There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... Not sure what you're referring to, unless it's the announcement tomorrow or the Ikonn. The production tour stuff is very interesting.  Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >> http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open >> >> There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... > > Not sure what you're referring to, Probably the rumours of the Nikon F mount Zeiss lenses. >>> http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open >>> >>> There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... > > Probably the rumours of the Nikon F mount Zeiss lenses. Wouldn't it have been smarter to have Zeiss lenses for Canon mount, because Canon wide-angle lenses suck so bad, whereas Zeiss wide-angles are the best in the industry (or 2nd best after Leica)? Also the Canon market is much larger than the Nikon market, probably even if amateur photographers who'd never buy Zeiss are excluded. >>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Also the Canon market is much larger than the Nikon market, probably > even if amateur photographers who'd never buy Zeiss are excluded. I guess that the Zeiss lenses are manual focus, which mainly seems to exclude Canon. Heck, the might even have diaphragm rings and depth-of-field scales! > >>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > exclude Canon. > Heck, the might even have diaphragm rings and depth-of-field scales! It could be that this is the market seeing as tons of folks have older Nikons still in use. > > >>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > It could be that this is the market seeing as tons of folks have older > Nikons still in use. Also, I just remembered that it is very easy to adapt Nikon to EOS so this would cover both. >>>>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > It could be that this is the market seeing as tons of folks have older > Nikons still in use. Actually, for me (if the news is true), it is at the same time a curse and a blessing: I'd love to use my Nikon F, F2 & FE2 with some first-rate wideangle lenses (assuming I could afford them). I really haven't used my Nikons in years because I prefer the results from other lens manufacturers, but classic Nikon bodies are hard to beat (with exceptions in certain aspects, like bright & accurate focussing screens). So that's my dilemma: Buy up ZF lenses for my beloved old Nikon bodies and throw my Rolleiflex 35mm SLRs (current platform for using Zeiss lenses) to the weeds, or stick with what I have... > >>>>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > and throw my Rolleiflex 35mm SLRs (current platform for using Zeiss > lenses) to the weeds, or stick with what I have... In my travels I meet a lot of outdoor shooters who always carry a fully manual camera in there bag simply because in many parts of the world electronics and battery dependent cameras become worthless. Could there be a big enough market involving these shooters seeing as many of them are correspondents for news and wildlife magazines? >>>>>>>>http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > be a big enough market involving these shooters seeing as many of them > are correspondents for news and wildlife magazines? As I (tried to) mention, my own preference is for manual cameras (or at least cameras which allow manual operation without batteries). I don't have the Nikon FM3a (which seams the ideal compromise), but that's also because I've found Zeiss and Leica/Leitz lenses which fit my needs better. > As I (tried to) mention, my own preference is for manual cameras (or at > least cameras which allow manual operation without batteries). > > I don't have the Nikon FM3a (which seams the ideal compromise), but > that's also because I've found Zeiss and Leica/Leitz lenses which fit my > needs better. Yep, I use to want an FM3a when I had Nikons. Had FMs, Fs but now using Pentax Spotmatic. My wife has Canon EOS with a very thin adapter that alows the use of my Super Taks and any M42 and one for a Nikor 180 we have. Together it is pretty good setup for our travels. Would love to get a Lecia M4 someday but the price is enough for good airline tickets across the pond. >>Probably the rumours of the Nikon F mount Zeiss lenses. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Also the Canon market is much larger than the Nikon market, probably > even if amateur photographers who'd never buy Zeiss are excluded. I said it was a rumour, not that I thought it was a good idea :-) They'll prolly be Cosina-built anyways, just like the ZM series. >Wouldn't it have been smarter to have Zeiss lenses for Canon mount, >because Canon wide-angle lenses suck so bad, whereas Zeiss wide-angles >are the best in the industry (or 2nd best after Leica)? > >Also the Canon market is much larger than the Nikon market, probably >even if amateur photographers who'd never buy Zeiss are excluded. Maybe the patents have expired on the Nikon F mount, whereas the patents on the Canon EOS mount still have many years left? Maybe Canon wouldn't license the EOS mount. A couple of years ago, Leica looked into making versions of some of the R lenses to fit Nikon and Canon, but both companies refused to license their mount to Leica. "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > A couple of years ago, Leica looked into making versions of some of > the R lenses to fit Nikon and Canon, but both companies refused to > license their mount to Leica. But they must have licensed Sigma, Tokina, and Tamron (and Vivatar) to use their lens mounts, so I wonder why they refused to let Leica use it.....They must be afraid of quality....:^) > "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > their lens mounts, so I wonder why they refused to let Leica use it.....They > must be afraid of quality....:^) It is seriously doubtful anybody ever licenced the Nikon mount from Nikon to make F mount lens. Why would one do that? SignatureSander +++ Out of cheese error +++ >> "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It is seriously doubtful anybody ever licenced the Nikon mount from Nikon > to make F mount lens. Why would one do that? Then why doesn't Nikon sue Sigma, Tokina, Tamron and Vivitar? These companies all make, or have made, lenses that fit on Nikon cameras. >> "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >It is seriously doubtful anybody ever licenced the Nikon mount from Nikon >to make F mount lens. Why would one do that? One would do it because one or more aspects of the design of the mount is patented, and because Nikon could sue. However, Nikon don't appear to have sued Sigma. <g> Another example: Leica Camera were fiercely protective of the patents applying to the Leica M mount. That is why Konica, Cosina and Carl Zeiss had to wait until the early years of 21st century to make cameras and lenses with the M bayonet mount. I think the patent on the Nikon F mount has just expired, or is just about to, hence the announcement of the Carl Zeiss ZF range of lenses for Nikon F mount cameras. Actually, I strongly suspect they will be Nikon AI mount. It's good to see Carl Zeiss taking the initiative with another Japanese manufacturer after the sudden and disastrous end to the relationship with Kyocera Yashica that produced the Contax models. >"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >their lens mounts, so I wonder why they refused to let Leica use it.....They >must be afraid of quality....:^) Nikon licensed Tokina, Tamron and Vivitar but not Sigma. Sigma does not pay license fees to camera manufacturers, instead preferring to 'reverse engineer' the mounts and interfaces. This leads to problems when a manufacturer changes the interface, because something can be changed that makes a whole generation of Sigma lenses unusable with that manufacturer's cameras. That's why so many Sigma lenses have to be re-chipped when Canon (in particular) introduces a new model. > http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9?Open > > There's more to be said, but i'll leave it to others... Whatever it is, they said they were going to announce it today, and then changed their minds and said they're going to announce it last week. I've just lost any interest I might have had. Unless someone's got a link directly to some content, it appears this is just a rumor. Certainly, I can find no mention of it on the zeiss page you've offered a link to. > Unless someone's got a link directly to some content, it appears this > is just a rumor. Certainly, I can find no mention of it on the zeiss > page you've offered a link to. *I* offered a link to a site that said Zeiss had something new up it's sleeve for millions of SLR owners- implying 35mm, and probably one or more big name marques. That is what Zeiss are saying (and it's *all* Zeiss are saying). Now i'm fairly certain there are big implications just from the facts without even paying heed to the rumours. Of course, some of the rumours appear to be true, but nevertheless... Martin > > Unless someone's got a link directly to some content, it appears this > > is just a rumor. Certainly, I can find no mention of it on the zeiss [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Martin Rumours are just rumours but sure as hell can be fun. >>>Unless someone's got a link directly to some content, it appears this >>>is just a rumor. Certainly, I can find no mention of it on the zeiss [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Rumours are just rumours but sure as hell can be fun. If you haven't heard a good rumor lately, start one. >> Unless someone's got a link directly to some content, it appears this >> is just a rumor. Certainly, I can find no mention of it on the zeiss [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Of course, some of the rumours appear to be true, but nevertheless... Martin, The rumour is true. The lenses are Zeiss designs for Nikon F mount, and the range is called ZF. Some of the lenses will be made in Japan by Cosina under licence. Others will be made in Germany. There are no current plans to produce AF lenses, nor to produce lenses for Canon EOS. Tony > Martin, > > The rumour is true. The lenses are Zeiss designs for Nikon F mount, > and the range is called ZF. Some of the lenses will be made in Japan > by Cosina under licence. Others will be made in Germany. Oh I know, I did my research. Funny, if you look hard at FM forums and DPReview forums, there is actually a very small amount of wheat in all that chaff... including the next four banner ads CZ will be posting over the coming weeks. I just don't want to be accused of rumour-mongering ;-) So the new Zeiss lenses for Nikon should be released by February. The banners indicate there will certainly be a 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4- the latter I care little about as I have a BNIB AF-D one :-D but the 50mm could be an absolute must-buy. If they release a 35/1.4 in F mount my 28mm f1.4 AFD plan might go out the window, and if they make a ~21mm thats even close to the absurdly high UK price on the Nikkor 20mm it might be worth a look too. The C/Y 21mm is the one Canon FF-perverts in FM forums dribble over, isn't it? > There are no current plans to produce AF lenses, nor to produce lenses > for Canon EOS. I still hold the tiniest glimmer of hope that the ZF lenses might be AF, like the Pentax Limiteds... oh, I can dream I guess. As for not producing EF lenses.... *shrug* Martin >Oh I know, I did my research. Funny, if you look hard at FM forums and >DPReview forums, there is actually a very small amount of wheat in all that >chaff... including the next four banner ads CZ will be posting over the >coming weeks. I just don't want to be accused of rumour-mongering ;-) The joint venture with Cosina goes much further than what has been announced or rumoured so far. If I said any more, I would also be accused of rumour-mongering. ;-) >So the new Zeiss lenses for Nikon should be released by February. The >banners indicate there will certainly be a 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4- the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >too. The C/Y 21mm is the one Canon FF-perverts in FM forums dribble over, >isn't it? Any of the Zeiss 35mm or 50mm designs will be vastly superior to any of the Nikkors in those focal lengths. For the first time, Nikon users will have 35mm and 50mm lenses with superb bokeh. Having deserted Nikon for Pentax because of the sheer mediocrity of Nikon's offerings in those focal lengths, I am wearing a wry smile, but until Nikon makes an affordable full frame DSLR I have no intention of abandoning my 5D and returning to the F mount. ;-) >> There are no current plans to produce AF lenses, nor to produce lenses >> for Canon EOS. > >I still hold the tiniest glimmer of hope that the ZF lenses might be AF, >like the Pentax Limiteds... oh, I can dream I guess. As for not producing EF >lenses.... *shrug* I suspect there won't be any ZF AF lenses in the near future if Nikon has anything to do with it. Unlike the patents on the F mount, which have either just expired or are just about to, the patents on Nikon's electronic AF interface have a long way to run. >>> There are no current plans to produce AF lenses, nor to produce lenses >>> for Canon EOS. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >have either just expired or are just about to, the patents on Nikon's >electronic AF interface have a long way to run. However, Zeiss could _in theory_ reverse engineer the Nikon AF/D-series mount, just as Sigma has done. I own 9 Nikon lenses of various focal lengths and vintages, which are used on F2 and N90s film bodies, and I certainly appreciate the AF lenses when I use them on the N90s. Since (almost ?) all newer Nikon bodies, both film and digital, are AF, I suspect that Zeiss could enlarge their market (considerably ?) with AF versions of their lenses. However, I have to think that it's easier to produce a "universal" lens which is MF, than AF. Remember the T-mount? Was there ever a T-mount for AF lenses? Pere Kodak >>>> There are no current plans to produce AF lenses, nor to produce lenses >>>> for Canon EOS. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Pere Kodak Reading this thread, I've been musing that any camera could turn a manual focus lens into an AF lens just by moving the mount in and out.....I wonder why the manufacturers don't make a body that does this....... > Reading this thread, I've been musing that any camera could turn a manual > focus lens into an AF lens just by moving the mount in and out.....I wonder > why the manufacturers don't make a body that does this....... Try typing in "Contax AX" into google to find out about one attempt to do this. It moves the film plane and the focussing screen/pentaprism instead of the lens mount. It sounds really interesting, but I've never seen one in person. It was quite expensive. Peter. Signaturepirwin@ktb.net > > Reading this thread, I've been musing that any camera could turn a manual > > focus lens into an AF lens just by moving the mount in and out.....I wonder [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It sounds really interesting, but I've never seen one > in person. It was quite expensive. Maintaining rigidity and parallelism of the mount, while allowing it to move, and making it strong enough to mount a heavy lens would be pretty challenging mechanically. The AX bypassed that but had to move both the film plane and the focus screen (and was heavy). Also the travel of film plane is limited (only a real issue with telephotos). Nikon made a 1.6x teleconverter (TC-16A) that accepted an MF lens and AF'ed by moving elements of the TC. Effectively it moved the flange to focal distance, so it was like moving the mount point optically rather than mechanically. It works pretty well within the limitations of usable lens focal length and the focusing range allowed by the TC's travel. Long before autofocus, there were a few cameras that focused by moving the film plane. (Every back-focusing view camera for example). The Mamiya Six 6x6 camera, not the recent one, but a 50 year old version, was a folding bellows camera with a rangefinder. The RF linkage to the lens on the front standard on these folding cameras was pretty delicate, so Mamiya fixed the front lens and linked the RF to the moving film plane, which are closer together and protected inside the camera body. At least I assume avoiding the linkage is why they did it that way. There's nothing really new in this biz, is there? >> > Reading this thread, I've been musing that any camera could turn a >> > manual [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > allowing it to move, and making it strong enough to mount > a heavy lens would be pretty challenging mechanically. This is correct....I never thought of that.....I guess with heavy glass, the camera would do the moving. > The AX bypassed that but had to move both the film plane > and the focus screen (and was heavy). Also the travel of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > There's nothing really new in this biz, is there? No, but I keep trying.....Right now, I am working on designing a little periscope-like mirror box that I can screw into the filter threads of my lens that will allow me to take stereo slides.....I am still trying to decide if it would be better than moving the camera between shots. - If I could operate the central mirror rapidly enough, I could reduce the time interval between left and right pictures to well under a second....... > However, Zeiss could _in theory_ reverse engineer the Nikon > AF/D-series mount, just as Sigma has done. I own 9 Nikon lenses of > various focal lengths and vintages, which are used on F2 and N90s film > bodies, and I certainly appreciate the AF lenses when I use them on > the N90s. You mean the interface that basicly says "here is where you but a thing that should look pricecely like a screw and that should cause the lens elements to shift for focusing when turned" ? If you want to see the interface, take a non-AF-S Nikon mount AF lens, look on the mount side and turn teh focusing ring - you will see a screw spinning - *THAT* is all there is to the basic Nikon AF. There is also noevidence that there is a patent on the "AI-P" part of the F mount aka "how to keep lensdata in an eeprom". > Since (almost ?) all newer Nikon bodies, both film and digital, are > AF, I suspect that Zeiss could enlarge their market (considerably ?) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lens which is MF, than AF. Remember the T-mount? Was there ever a > T-mount for AF lenses? You mean the Adaptall mount? ;-) > Pere Kodak > > However, Zeiss could _in theory_ reverse engineer the Nikon > > AF/D-series mount, just as Sigma has done. I own 9 Nikon lenses of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > You mean the Adaptall mount? ;-) The (Tamron) Adaptall preserves the auto aperture (auto stop-down when shutter pressed). T Mounts were 'pentax' screw (M42) to bayonet which you have to manually stop-down - neither allowed auto-focus. |
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