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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / September 2005

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How to digitize precious photos?

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Photomax - 28 Sep 2005 12:38 GMT
Our traditional photographs are deteriorating with every passing
moment. Faces and colors fade with the passage of time and someday
these visual memories will be lost forever.
Photomax  provides an easy solution to the inevitable fate of your
traditional photos with their Photo Saver  service.
Simply send  photos, slides, or negatives to the Photomax Digital
Imaging Lab, where trained photo technicians carefully clean and scan
your photographs with state-of-the-art equipment. These new digital
pictures are then placed into your personal Photomax account, and your
originals are returned to you. You can then view your photos at any
time and from any location on your personal website.
Photomax  is a photo website unlike any other. It is the easiest way to
preserve, organize, share and enjoy precious memories.

http://login.myphotomaxusa.com
Al Denelsbeck - 28 Sep 2005 13:21 GMT
> Our traditional photographs are deteriorating with every passing
> moment. Faces and colors fade with the passage of time and someday
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> http://login.myphotomaxusa.com

       Yeah, buddy, there's a service that everyone on the group needs. Hey,
everyone, these guys can scan your photos! To digital!!!!!!

       Boy howdy...

    - Al.

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Tony - 29 Sep 2005 00:49 GMT
My GAWD!
      Really?????
          How moderne.
                   How tres chick.
                         How hep and up yer face.
  Gotta find my box of CDs so I can get 'em all digitialled and stuff ----
TODAY!

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Joseph Meehan - 28 Sep 2005 16:12 GMT
> Our traditional photographs are deteriorating with every passing
> moment. Faces and colors fade with the passage of time and someday
> these visual memories will be lost forever.

   In addition to a blatant commercial message where it does not belong,
the message is a lie.

   The lie part is the idea that somehow digital images are archival and
are safe from the ravages of time.

   The fact is digital storage media is often less reliable than
traditional photographic media. Also the media and or file types may be
impossible or very difficult to read ten years from now when advances in
technology have made them as easy to use as an 8 track tape.

   My advice for anyone who really wants to preserve images is to have them
digitalized by a honest reliable service, not one that would post this kind
of ad. and keep one copy and send the other to someone you know far away.
Think what happened on the Gulf Cost this year.  Having copies stored
hundreds of miles away is a good idea.  I have mine with my son and daughter
who live 3,000 miles apart.   Also have good archival prints made of those
that you really treasure and keep one set and send the other as above.  Good
archival prints will last over 100 years and don't need special computers or
programs to view.

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Joseph Meehan

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PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 16:57 GMT
> > Our traditional photographs are deteriorating with every passing
> > moment. Faces and colors fade with the passage of time and someday
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> impossible or very difficult to read ten years from now when advances in
> technology have made them as easy to use as an 8 track tape.

Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s
look pretty damn good. I guess she should have put them all on 8" floppys
when she had the chance years ago.
Dick R. - 28 Sep 2005 19:12 GMT
> Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s
> look pretty damn good. I guess she should have put them all on 8" floppys
> when she had the chance years ago.
Hi,
Yup, I also have many photos and negatives from the early 1900s. They are still
looking good. I guess I'm still a film person and I wouldn't trust any long
term storage to CDs or whatever. Not to discount some of the advantages
of digital, but not for me.

Dick R.
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 19:28 GMT
> > Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s
> > look pretty damn good. I guess she should have put them all on 8" floppys
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dick R.

Digital has it's place for sure but to trust it for storage is not wise.
I say this after years in the music and audio fields. Good prints and
slides should be kept, even of digital shots, if you really care about
them.
Dick R. - 28 Sep 2005 20:12 GMT
>>>Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s
>>>look pretty damn good. I guess she should have put them all on 8" floppys
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> slides should be kept, even of digital shots, if you really care about
> them.
Hi again - can I call you PS for short?  :-)
I worry about the folks who had their wedding recorded on VHS tape and
haven't rewound/played the tape on an annual basis to avoid bleed-through.
Same would apply to audio tapes, and also rumors about CDs deteriorating
over time. I dunno, but for me, give me the prints and negatives for
long term storage.

JMHO
Dick R.
Jeremy - 28 Sep 2005 20:20 GMT
<PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message

> Digital has it's place for sure but to trust it for storage is not wise.
> I say this after years in the music and audio fields. Good prints and
> slides should be kept, even of digital shots, if you really care about
> them.

Virtually no one would argue that digital should REPLACE your old prints,
but there is a compelling case to be made for scanning them and storing
multiple copies of the image files, preferably in geographically diverse
locations.  I am reminded of a genealogy society meeting, where one proud
woman declared that she had neatly scanned all her important family papers
and then shredded and discarded those "old" original copies . . . She was
obviously ill-informed and misguided, and she paid a price for her
ignorance.  Now all she has are images, not originals.

The archival CDs are admittedly NOT going to be suitable for very long-term
storage.  CDs will be supplanted by other types of media.  And image file
formats will eventually give way to newer formats.  And some of those
archive CDs may become unreadable in time due to physical deterioration.
But a compelling case can be made for at least attempting to create multiple
copies of those precious photographs in those old albums.

I am scanning, archiving, restoring and reprinting about 500 family prints,
that almost went into a landfill when an elderly relative's home was cleaned
out prior to being sold when she entered a nursing home.  A relative just
happened to spot two albums in a dumpster, pulled them out to have a look,
and discovered that they were photos of OUR family members, some dating to
the 1940s.  The albums were perilously close to being lost forever.  It was
pure coincidence that they were spotted at all.

Had there been scans available, at least new prints could have been made and
distributed to multiple family members, rather than running the risk of the
originals being discarded or lost in a disaster.  And, now that the images
are being digitized, I am able to make corrections for imperfect exposure,
and I can distribute the freshly-done prints to numerous family members for
their own use.  Most of the family has never even seen these photographs,
because they were locked up in the home of a single person all this time.
And the new prints I am going to be making will, themselves, hold the
promise of being archival, if they are cared for by their new owners.  It is
a win-win arrangement.

Digitizing may not be a 100% perfect solution, but as long as it is
implemented as an additional layer of protection, over and above that of
keeping and protecting the originals, I see no reason why anyone should
object to it.
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 20:55 GMT
> <PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> keeping and protecting the originals, I see no reason why anyone should
> object to it.

I did not mean to imply that one should not archive digitally. But to
trust it totally is foolish. I belive you stated that, at least.

I mentioned in another thread of a friend who had slides and CDs that got
wet in New Orleans. Many slides survived and many CDs did not. About
50/50 overall. Hopefully by having both he has managed to save a lot of
precious photos. Maybe watertight storage is a good idea.
Tony   Polson - 28 Sep 2005 21:56 GMT
>I mentioned in another thread of a friend who had slides and CDs that got
>wet in New Orleans. Many slides survived and many CDs did not. About
>50/50 overall. Hopefully by having both he has managed to save a lot of
>precious photos. Maybe watertight storage is a good idea.

Maybe living ten feet below sea level is a bad idea.  

Storing negatives, slides and prints below sea level is *definitely* a
bad idea, especially in a city where the inadequacy of the protection
offered by the levees was apparently already widely known.
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 23:55 GMT
> >I mentioned in another thread of a friend who had slides and CDs that got
> >wet in New Orleans. Many slides survived and many CDs did not. About
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> bad idea, especially in a city where the inadequacy of the protection
> offered by the levees was apparently already widely known.

How true but then most places I have lived in America were in suburban
McHouses made out of chipboard. A fire trap waiting to happen.
Jeremy - 28 Sep 2005 22:33 GMT
<PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message >
> I mentioned in another thread of a friend who had slides and CDs that got
> wet in New Orleans. Many slides survived and many CDs did not. About
> 50/50 overall. Hopefully by having both he has managed to save a lot of
> precious photos. Maybe watertight storage is a good idea.

I keep mine in a bank safe deposit box.  That is the limit of how far I'll
go to protect my image files.  If we get nuked, well, I guess I might have
to do without my pics . . .

Kodak recommends the Master and Derivative Disk concept:  A master disk is
made up, for the sole purpose of being used to make derivative "working"
copies.  You keep that master disk in the safe location, and you don't touch
it ever, unless your derivative copies become damaged and require
replacement.  You can make, and use, as many derivative disks as you
require.  If you're really determined to preserve your images, there are two
additional steps to take:

1: Give copies of your disks to relatives that live distant from you, for
safekeeping. (You can reciprocate by acting as safe storage for THEM)

2: Make one additional "Master Disk" and store it at home, never to be
touched unless your derivative disks require replacement.  Do all work from
your derivatives.  If you ever need to replace a derivative, you make one
from your on-site Master Disk.  If, for some reason, your on-site master is
unusable, THEN you go to your safe deposit box and retrieve your "Original
Master Disk," make the necessary copies, and replace that Original Master
right back into the safe deposit box.

I doubt that most people will be as fanatical as to use the above scenario,
but it IS possible to maximize the chances that your digital assets will be
preserved.  Just plan on migrating those disks to newer file formats and the
latest type storage media every decade or so.  I still haven't figured out
what to do about migration by future generations.  If the cycle stops at any
point in the future, it may be difficult or impossible for any subsequent
generations to retrieve the images down the road.

But, "All Things Must Pass . . ."  Even so, I do believe that a lot of
digital photos WILL survive into the future--perhaps more of them than did
the number of old photographs that we now have from years past.  Not because
the preservation techniques are so great, but because of the potential to
clone the images and deposit them at multiple locations.  Some of them have
just got to survive, no?
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 23:58 GMT
> <PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message >
> > I mentioned in another thread of a friend who had slides and CDs that got
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> clone the images and deposit them at multiple locations.  Some of them have
> just got to survive, no?

I think you are right on this as long as the trasnfers get better and
better. So far in audio we have lost a lot of data on older digital
recordings. Many factors here but lets just call if fade, bits are gone,
high end suffers, etc.
Jeremy - 29 Sep 2005 01:20 GMT
<PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message >>
> I think you are right on this as long as the trasnfers get better and
> better. So far in audio we have lost a lot of data on older digital
> recordings. Many factors here but lets just call if fade, bits are gone,
> high end suffers, etc.

While it probably is impossible to improve the files, once scanned, the
inverse certainly IS true: the condition of the original pictures is
currently about as good as it will ever be.  They will only deteriorate over
time.  Might as well scan them now.

I saw a woman in New Orleans seeing her home for the first time since the
flooding began.  First thing she cried over was the family album--or what
was left of it.  It was as though her past memories had been taken from her.
Had she kept copies stored off-site it would have made it possible to
restore her memories, to a certain extent.

I never knew of a single person that stored their negatives in a
geographically distant location, but there are tons of people that are
swapping disks of family shots with relatives, to ensure that other copies
will survive.  At least for the short-term, the practice seems to have
benefits.  No way to really know if digitization will really keep the images
alive for the long haul, but at least people are attempting to preserve them
as best they can.  Before digital, preservation of family photos was
something that was not even on the radar screen.

Even if having extra copies of images does not ultimately help, it certainly
cannot hurt--and I suspect that, even if a lot of images do become lost to
the ravages of time, there will be a lot of them that will survive.
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 29 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT
> <PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message >>
> > I think you are right on this as long as the trasnfers get better and
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> cannot hurt--and I suspect that, even if a lot of images do become lost to
> the ravages of time, there will be a lot of them that will survive.

I keep meaning to get around to scanning all the slides I have but I keep
wasting my time here instead. ;) But on a serious note keeping your
slides or negs in a safe is a good idea. I have a small watertight, heat
resistant safe that was pretty cheap. I am also slowly scanning all my
stuff on quality CDs. Don't use the cheapos. Offsite is a good idea as
well. Now that I think about it offsite is really the way to go for me
and my wife since we travel quite a bit. Now if we could just get the
Italians to get more high speed internet we would be in great shape. :)
Martin Francis - 28 Sep 2005 20:00 GMT
> Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s >
> look pretty damn good.

By God, if anyone needs any advice on archiving, they should ask your
mother- especially if she's been around since the 1860s!

;-)

Martin
PunishSpammers@NOSPAM.com - 28 Sep 2005 20:15 GMT
> > Yeah, funny how my mothers boxes of photos from as far back as the 1860s >
> > look pretty damn good.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Martin

Very funny. Like she was never given photos passed down from members of
her family. BTW she uses a computer on a regular basis. She was one of
the first computer operators in the 60s for Monterey county. She most
likely could tell you a few things.
Martin Francis - 28 Sep 2005 20:02 GMT
> Our traditional photographs are deteriorating with every passing
> moment. Faces and colors fade with the passage of time and someday
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> http://login.myphotomaxusa.com

Funny, isn't it, how only marketers would use the word "precious" in
sentences such as the subject line.

Martin
JimKramer - 28 Sep 2005 20:17 GMT
One file format to rule them all,
One file format to find them,
One file format to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them

Precious?
DD (Rox) - 29 Sep 2005 06:47 GMT
> One file format to rule them all,
> One file format to find them,
> One file format to bring them all
> and in the darkness bind them
>
> Precious?

That was the name of Buffalo Bill's doggie in Silence of the Lambs.

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richardsfault - 29 Sep 2005 02:40 GMT
This is obviously an MLM (Multi-level marketing) scheme, which greatly
reduces credability.

They quote that "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" guy who is worshipped by the
MLM-types.
DD (Rox) - 29 Sep 2005 06:48 GMT
> This is obviously an MLM (Multi-level marketing) scheme, which greatly
> reduces credability.
>
> They quote that "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" guy who is worshipped by the
> MLM-types.

And yet Robert Kyosaki has absolutely nothing to do with MLM schemes.
Bananas.

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