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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / March 2005[SI] Ugly America comments
I must say that I'm a little disapointed with the pictures that were submitted. I found that, although it is fairly easy to meet the mandate, it is quiet hard to come up with a striking original shot. I came up with the same idea as Bowser and Alan. I thought about shooting a huge SUV with Walmart in the background. At the end, I didn't find anything ugly enough that wasn't a cliche. I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking because it's something you would never see in Canada. > I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking > because it's something you would never see in Canada. It's coming.  Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking >> because it's something you would never see in Canada. > > It's coming. I know. Highschool was really different 15 years ago. Still lucky that firearms are not as easily available as in the US. >>> I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking >>> because it's something you would never see in Canada. >> It's coming. >I know. Highschool was really different 15 years ago. >Still lucky that firearms are not as easily available as in the US. Thanks for the nice comments, Paul. You guys are not filling me with enthusiasm about our future move from S.Africa to Canada [after 15 years overseas]. When our son needs to go to school, I hope we can live in a place like rural UK where I lived 10 yrs, and the school can have <100 pupils. Meanwhile, I don't think the depth of "wealth apartheid" that still exists here will ever come to Canada, though I feel the invisible apartheid of Canada's First Nations people is even more insidious than the one existing in this country. SignatureKen Tough South Africa >>>>I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking >>>>because it's something you would never see in Canada. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > apartheid of Canada's First Nations people is even more insidious > than the one existing in this country. The schools here got worse that they used to be 15 years ago when I was in high school. Sure, there were drugs back then but there was no street gangs in the suburbs where I grew up. Now, they do have more problems. They have even more problems with street gangs and teen prostitution on the island itself. Clearly, it follows the American model i.e. people that have money move out of the city leaving more and more of poor areas on the island. 15 years ago, you could safely walk all around Montreal in the middle of the night. I don't know how it is today because I don't go downtown very often, even less at night. But I never felt unsafe in Montreal. Even in the US, I'm sure that it is not as bad as the mass medias make you believe it is. But, the firearms being easily available, kids shoot each other instead of punching each other in the face. > You guys are not filling me with enthusiasm about our future move from > S.Africa to Canada [after 15 years overseas]. When our son needs to go > to school, I hope we can live in a place like rural UK where I lived > 10 yrs, and the school can have <100 pupils. Canada has all the rural you can take. 1/10th the population of the US in a country larger than the US. 2/3 of those Canadians live within a 2 or 3 hour drive to the US border. There's tons of room left over. Where in Canada are you moving to? > Meanwhile, I don't think the depth of "wealth apartheid" that still > exists here will ever come to Canada, though I feel the invisible > apartheid of Canada's First Nations people is even more insidious > than the one existing in this country. Eh? It's not like we've prevented them from working or going where they want or not having access to the same schools ... or anything remotely as bad as SA apartheid. The tragedy with respect to NA Indians here is that indians are granted (by treaty and later agreements) land reserves, money and tax free status. In some communities this works, in some communities it fosters dependance. Cultural erosion is rampant, yet integration into (what is mainly) a European (NA style) culture is resisted. It is sad from both directions. The recent killing spree in MN is symptomatic. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >Canada has all the rural you can take. I know it. I spent 20 years in Winnipeg, and lived in a few other places there too. It's largely different than rural UK, though, in that it's not so close to cultural "amenities" of various kinds (good restaurants, theatre, decent pubs, etc). In a sense there is a "gentrified rural" without the strip malls. That probably sounds elitist, but though I like living in the bush or on a farm, I like the mix of metropolitan plus the rural advantages. >Where in Canada are you moving to? Probably Vancouver/BC. We need the sea, direct international and internal flights, and easing back into a cold climate :] >> Meanwhile, I don't think the depth of "wealth apartheid" that still >> exists here will ever come to Canada, though I feel the invisible [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >want or not having access to the same schools ... or anything remotely >as bad as SA apartheid. No, the SA apartheid I'm talking about is not the past one where laws and race set what you could do. Since the new era ('94) that has all changed and the constitution here is widely regarded as the most egalatarian and advanced in the whole world. (Canada's isn't too bad either, I know). The apartheid I mean is the one where if you earn $20 a day, you are inherently limited in what you'll have access to, including education and possibilities. Still, if a child is born in an informal settlement here he can truly imagine a future where he is a Mandela or a corporate leader (most govt ministers and corporation executives are now black). Contrast that to a First Nations person in Canada, where the future of someone born on a reserve or inner-city is bleak. In a society where who you are is defined by what you do, his (never mind her) father never had a job, his grandfather didn't and so on. The same applies in the UK to people born on council estates, though again there isn't quite the same impossibility of imagining a future. I see the Canadian Native American's 'plight' as being like that of Palestinians, with about the same sense of futility. I know there are no constraints on them "on paper", and that equal opportunities employment exists. But still, the attitude amongst most of the public is that it is something which has been addressed, and now the ball is in their court. The problem isn't serious because it's out of sight, on reserves or in the parts of town one can just avoid. Here, a policy of black economic empowerment means businesses must have a percentage of ownership and control by previously disadvantaged people. The benefits of that are in some ways questionable, because it has created a "wealth apartheid", what some refer to as "black elite enrichment" (a sliver of the population has benefitted, and the bulk is still in poverty, as segregated as ever but in a new sense). Still, it has opened doors and is slowly leading to transformation throughout, though it's equal access to quality education that is the only way society can be properly fixed (as Mandela keeps saying). >The tragedy with respect to NA Indians here is >that indians are granted (by treaty and later agreements) land reserves, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >It is sad from both directions. Yes, it's a different situation but the resistance to integration is a two-way street too. Canada's problem is very much like the Australian experience, where Aboriginies have lots of rights and protections, and yet there is a deep-rooted denigration about their incapacity to integrate (which attitude only leads to deeper segregation in a destructive spiral). I don't know what are the best solutions, but I have found that living outside Canada has given me a different perspective on the problem. It's the 'silent' part of it, the fact that the conditions they live under--the tragic levels of youth suicide (worst on a world-wide scale), the substance and child abuse, the bleakness of their future--can for the most part be ignored if you stay in the right parts of town, that make it so insidious. The only answer I can see it boiling down to again, is quality of education. If culture could be changed so that early education (and the desire for it) is improved to where a bigger slice of them get into higher learning, then perhaps there will be a gradual shift. Without that, I think the future looks more and more bleak, on both sides of the divide. SignatureKen Tough > It's largely different than rural UK, though, in that it's not so > close to cultural "amenities" of various kinds (good restaurants, > theatre, decent pubs, etc). In a sense there is a "gentrified rural" > without the strip malls. That probably sounds elitist, but though > I like living in the bush or on a farm, I like the mix of metropolitan > plus the rural advantages. After a conference at Duxford (near Cambridge) my boss and I had reservations at one of hotels at Heathrow airport for the next day flight home. We purposefully got lost in the countryside until we happened on a roadside, middle of nowhere pub. Had a nice meal and a couple pints. That pub was clearly the local social hub. Very warm atmosphere. There is little like that here, though some places in Ontario and the Eastern Townships (Que.) have some of the flavour. >>Where in Canada are you moving to? > > Probably Vancouver/BC. We need the sea, direct international and > internal flights, and easing back into a cold climate :] Vancouver is hardly a cold climate. Compared to W'peg it's downright tropical in the winter (and not as warm in the summer). >>Eh? It's not like we've prevented them from working or going where they >>want or not having access to the same schools ... or anything remotely [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Contrast that to a First Nations person in Canada, where the future of > someone born on a reserve or inner-city is bleak. In a society where Only if they decide to be trapped by it. Unfortunately, there is a peverse peer pressure to 'stay on the reservation' which accerbates the problem. A conflict of culture, loyalty and economic reality. > who you are is defined by what you do, his (never mind her) father > never had a job, his grandfather didn't and so on. The same applies [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > about the same sense of futility. I know there are no constraints on > them "on paper", and that equal opportunities employment exists. But I've worked with a number of NA indians who lived 'off the reservation' (who nonetheless had full status as indians). Varying levels of educations and urbaneness. For those who can see clearly beyond the BS, there is no limit. > still, the attitude amongst most of the public is that it is something > which has been addressed, and now the ball is in their court. The > problem isn't serious because it's out of sight, on reserves or in the > parts of town one can just avoid. No. It's simmering away. Nobody has the right 'solution', as you can't get everyone to agree on what such solutions might be. There are also many successful FN communities. > Here, a policy of black economic empowerment means businesses must > have a percentage of ownership and control by previously disadvantaged [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > throughout, though it's equal access to quality education that is the > only way society can be properly fixed (as Mandela keeps saying). You can't expect to transform RSA in less than 3 or 4 full generations. > Yes, it's a different situation but the resistance to integration > is a two-way street too. Canada's problem is very much like the > Australian experience, where Aboriginies have lots of rights and > protections, and yet there is a deep-rooted denigration about their > incapacity to integrate (which attitude only leads to deeper > segregation in a destructive spiral). True enough. I don't know the solution, but what is happening is not it. > I don't know what are the best solutions, but I have found that > living outside Canada has given me a different perspective on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of their future--can for the most part be ignored if you stay in > the right parts of town, that make it so insidious. 50/50. The government gives First Nations people a broad and smooth way forward. Not all FN peoples take advantage of it with a _long term_ view. It is all but impossible to maintain cultural independance from 'white' society to coserve FN culture while also wanting the material things of the rest of the country. > The only answer I can see it boiling down to again, is quality > of education. If culture could be changed so that early education > (and the desire for it) is improved to where a bigger slice of > them get into higher learning, then perhaps there will be a > gradual shift. Without that, I think the future looks more and > more bleak, on both sides of the divide. FN peoples are given all the resources so that their most able students can have quality high education. That is no barrier. The barrier exists at a younger age where the foundation is not given to position the kids for the opportunities later in life. This is a 'fault' of the FN people themselves. Again, this is not all communities or reservations, just the worst ones. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >After a conference at Duxford (near Cambridge) my boss and I had >reservations at one of hotels at Heathrow airport for the next day [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >atmosphere. There is little like that here, though some places in >Ontario and the Eastern Townships (Que.) have some of the flavour. That's it, exactly! I expect some parts of maritimes are good for it too, and I do fancy Newfoundland [I lived in a similar region in the UK] but it's too remote for us at present. Yes, a good pub is one where I can bring my dog, and a truly good one is one where he can get a drink. >> Probably Vancouver/BC. We need the sea, direct international and >> internal flights, and easing back into a cold climate :] > >Vancouver is hardly a cold climate. Compared to W'peg it's downright >tropical in the winter (and not as warm in the summer). Yesssss, but that's not saying much. It hardly ever gets below freezing here, and living in the caribbean has rather spoiled me.. >I've worked with a number of NA indians who lived 'off the reservation' >(who nonetheless had full status as indians). Varying levels of >educations and urbaneness. For those who can see clearly beyond the BS, >there is no limit. I know what you mean. My family used a marina set-up by a fellow on a reservation near Lake of The Woods, ON. He was a real go-getter, and the operation was excellent, good service and location etc. The band council hounded him out, and even blockaded the reserve because they felt he was personally profiting without their getting a cut, and he was bringing outsiders onto the land. What a terrible tragedy, a one-in-ten-thousand guy, and he has the success beat out of him. I can only imagine that it would take some newer generation of more successfully educated people to run the band, and hold up a guy like this as a role model instead of as a sell-out. >> Here, a policy of black economic empowerment means businesses must >> have a percentage of ownership and control by previously disadvantaged [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >You can't expect to transform RSA in less than 3 or 4 full generations. Very true. You run into people who seem perfectly normal, and then out of the blue comes some whacked racist ingrained stuff. I basically see anyone who was >15 in '94 as possibly having permanent problems. It's refreshing to see just how normal the younger generation is, and seeing the kids of that generation playing together is fantastic. >50/50. The government gives First Nations people a broad and smooth way >forward. Not all FN peoples take advantage of it with a _long term_ >view. It is all but impossible to maintain cultural independance from >'white' society to coserve FN culture while also wanting the material >things of the rest of the country. True. They're just going to have to give ground one way or another. That said, as you mention there are successful FN communities, and primarily those are in places where they have cash, from oil or property or gambling. The root of problems is pretty much poverty, as it is in so many places (n.ireland for example). >> The only answer I can see it boiling down to again, is quality >> of education. If culture could be changed so that early education [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >FN people themselves. Again, this is not all communities or >reservations, just the worst ones. I agree totally on the early education part, but I disagree it's the fault of FN people themselves. The same problem exists here, where rural schools are crap, because no one wants to work there for nearly nothing. You could imagine that if it were a scandinavian country, schools on the reserves would have enough resources poured into them to make them on par quality-wise with suburb ones. Of course, they pay the taxes to sustain that, but it ain't gonna happen by bootstraps alone. Oh well, this doesn't really say much about photography. The closest thing to bring it back OT that comes to mind is James Houston, a truly great man who did wonders for the Inuit culture and self-esteem by seeing and helping develop their art. The country could use a few more men like him, from both sides. SignatureKen Tough >>FN peoples are given all the resources so that their most able students >>can have quality high education. That is no barrier. The barrier [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > pay the taxes to sustain that, but it ain't gonna happen by bootstraps > alone. An upward spiral would have FN people with education returning to educate FN students. This is probably the case in many areas, but not all. Again 50/50. There is a way, there has to be a will. > Oh well, this doesn't really say much about photography. The closest > thing to bring it back OT that comes to mind is James Houston, a truly > great man who did wonders for the Inuit culture and self-esteem by > seeing and helping develop their art. The country could use a few > more men like him, from both sides. Ah the few, the proud ... er, no, that's the USMC... ah well, Cheers, Alan/ Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >>You can't expect to transform RSA in less than 3 or 4 full generations. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > refreshing to see just how normal the younger generation is, and seeing > the kids of that generation playing together is fantastic. I must interject here and add my penny's worth... Look closer, Ken. Look closer. The kids you speak of are but a very small segment of SA society. My eldest son was born in 1990 and whilst his best friend is a coloured boy, his culture is the same as ours. He lives with the same ideals and principles as we do. By the same token there are groups within his school who have very different cultural beliefs and principles. They stick to themselves. They just don't fit in. I don't believe 1994 has anything to do with current attitudes. I think it all boils down to the same thing; one group trying to enforce its beliefs over anothers. SignatureThe good old days start now. > You guys are not filling me with enthusiasm about our future move from > S.Africa to Canada [after 15 years overseas]. When our son needs to go > to school, I hope we can live in a place like rural UK where I lived > 10 yrs, and the school can have <100 pupils. In late 2000 I started making enquiries about emigrating to Canada, specifically Vancouver, where my wife has relatives. What appealed to me was the idyllic lifestyle, absence of crime and general willingness amongst people to get along. Whilst I had sufficient points to enter Canada as a permanent resident, the process was prohibitively lengthy due to the sheer number of persons trying to obtain PR status. At the time I believe the waiting period to have your application assessed was something like 22 months and climbing. There was also huge costs associated with the process. We decided to stick it out in SA. Things are very different here in KZN compared to Gauteng. You don't see as many of the closed off suburbs, high security walls and other "ugly" bits. Violent crime is far less than in Johannesburg. Funny, we were just talking about this with one of my wife's cousins on Friday. He was down on holiday and we got onto the subject of hi-jacking. He doesn't know anybody in JHB who hasn't been hi-jacked, whereas we don't know anybody in Durban who has been hi-jacked. Ideally I would like to move down to Sedgefield in the Western Cape within the next coupla years. Signature? >We decided to stick it out in SA. Things are very different here in KZN >compared to Gauteng. You don't see as many of the closed off suburbs, high [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >hi-jacking. He doesn't know anybody in JHB who hasn't been hi-jacked, >whereas we don't know anybody in Durban who has been hi-jacked. Good on ya for staying. We were only ever here temporarily, so it was only a matter of time before we have to leave. The crime front is part of the equation, and we feel lucky [foreshadowing of doom so] that we haven't been subject to it yet. In the space of a year I had two close co-workers murdered, and my wife one. But being closer to family is a bigger draw.] SignatureKen Tough >>We decided to stick it out in SA. Things are very different here in KZN >>compared to Gauteng. You don't see as many of the closed off suburbs, high [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > two close co-workers murdered, and my wife one. But being closer to > family is a bigger draw.] I would definitely pack up and go if I could, Ken. I've never travelled, so there's a burning fever in me to get out and see the world. Having young children (14 & 7) makes it a tad difficult though. The part of Durban I live in is fortunate in that the houses are very close together, but not joined by party walls. For the past two years we've lived with only a knee high fence in front of our house and a burglar alarm as our only security. I recently got a couple of dogs who live around the back of the house purely to act as a deterrent (a previous tenant who is an addict had a habit of stealing the pool pump for drug money). We're very lucky living where we do though. There's no hurricanes, typhoons, twisters, earthquakes, snow or other extreme forces of nature. SignatureThe good old days start now. You & Ken need to both pack up & come to Vancouver ASAP!! It's certainly not "tropical" by any stretch of the imagination, but the normal weather certainly beats the hell out of shoveling snow in the winter. Here, you just put on your raingear & keep going. The photo ops & outdoor opportunities abound and it sounds as if Ken would fit right in with the local politics. You could also get a closer look at some of the VERY successful First Nations communities Alan mentioned. It's amazing how many people here have extended family in South Africa. You'd both feel right at home. As far as Canada goes, I've lived here three times and am now back for good after living all over Canada and on both coasts. It's better here, believe me. It's certainly not crime free, Roxy, but definitely better. Bob >>>We decided to stick it out in SA. Things are very different here in KZN >>>compared to Gauteng. You don't see as many of the closed off suburbs, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > We're very lucky living where we do though. There's no hurricanes, > typhoons, twisters, earthquakes, snow or other extreme forces of nature. >As far as Canada goes, I've lived here three times and am now back for good >after living all over Canada and on both coasts. It's better here, believe >me. It's certainly not crime free, Roxy, but definitely better. Sounds great, can't wait. Have any pics of the neighbourhood? cheers SignatureKen Tough >>As far as Canada goes, I've lived here three times and am now back for >>good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > cheers Ken: I'm about 40 minutes east of Vancouver in Abbotsford and my neighbourhood wouldn't be representative of the downtown core area. However, before moving here this time we used http://www.gvrd.com/real_estate_services/ as a start to gather the necessary info. (I have no connection to the site or the activity). It might help. When are you planning your relocation? Bob > I'm about 40 minutes east of Vancouver in Abbotsford and my >neighbourhood wouldn't be representative of the downtown core area. >However, before moving here this time we used >http://www.gvrd.com/real_estate_services/ as a start to gather the >necessary info. (I have no connection to the site or the activity). It >might help. Thanks for the link, Bob. I will have a poke around. We're pretty open about location for where we stay at first, before we sound it out. (We've only been for a very quick visit fairly recently.) > When are you planning your relocation? Current plan is July this year. (Coming quickly :-() SignatureKen Tough >> I'm about 40 minutes east of Vancouver in Abbotsford and my >>neighbourhood wouldn't be representative of the downtown core area. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Current plan is July this year. (Coming quickly :-() After you have that "poke around", let me know if any questions arise. Bob > You & Ken need to both pack up & come to Vancouver ASAP!! > It's certainly not "tropical" by any stretch of the imagination, but the Compared to Winnipeg in winter was the comparison. > normal weather certainly beats the hell out of shoveling snow in the winter. Shovel? Contractor keeps driveway clean. My front porch, covered, lets out onto the driveway. I probably shoveled less than a cubic meter of snow per year. Snowfall averages over 2 m per year in the city, more where I live. > Here, you just put on your raingear & keep going. The photo ops & outdoor Ah, to the point. You can drown a dog taking him for a walk. The only advantage out there is Whistler. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> You & Ken need to both pack up & come to Vancouver ASAP!! >> It's certainly not "tropical" by any stretch of the imagination, but the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Cheers, > Alan Alan: Careful now those of us with connections to Montreal, The 'Peg, and Vancouver might take offense. I grew up on the east coast where we used to refer to the snow cover in winter as "up to a tall cow's a**" and those of us with connections to Montreal (Outremont, Verdun and Westmount) and who had spent considerable time there in winter (Longueil and "The Inn" in St. Sauveur) know the difference when we arrive in Vancouver. You are truly lucky to have your snow removed by the contractor. I still drive 4wd vehicles from my winter rallying experiences and the necessity of maintaining winter driving schedules regardless as to the cow's height. Whistler is truly a great location (all seasons now), but hardly the only advantage. The highway getting there is almost as great an attraction as is the north shore and the interior, not to mention quick access to the Seattle area, IMO one of the most quietly promoted areas of natural beauty on the NA Continent. And, oh yes, I see very few drowned dogs in my travels -- some good swimmers though. Bob >> Here, you just put on your raingear & keep going. The photo ops & outdoor > >Ah, to the point. You can drown a dog taking him for a walk. The only >advantage out there is Whistler. Ah well, rain I can probably cope with. I only had a bicycle for transport to work in sw england, and recall fondly the winter where it rained (or drizzled) 40 days straight. SignatureKen Tough > Ah well, rain I can probably cope with. I only had a bicycle for > transport to work in sw england, and recall fondly the winter where > it rained (or drizzled) 40 days straight. Ah, it must have rained on St Swithin's day. Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk >> Ah well, rain I can probably cope with. I only had a bicycle for >> transport to work in sw england, and recall fondly the winter where >> it rained (or drizzled) 40 days straight. >Ah, it must have rained on St Swithin's day. It would be a reasonably good bet, anyway. SignatureKen Tough >Ah well, rain I can probably cope with. I only had a bicycle for >transport to work in sw england, and recall fondly the winter where >it rained (or drizzled) 40 days straight. In England, Winter starts in August, and ends in July the following year. Officially, they get 16 minutes of Summer time. Autumn and Spring overlap Winter. If you live more than 5 miles inland, drizzling 40 days straight happens much more frequently than sunshine 40 days straight. As Bill Bryson commented: It's like living in a tupperware box. Nobody in the UK has a natural suntan. They are white. People of the north of the UK (Scotland etc) get even less sunlight and are actually slightly pale blue color. Endemic yellow teeth sported by most of the population is due to tea, lack of the bleaching effects of UV, and failure to smile for the 16 minutes a year when the sun is shining. Choice of how to best use the 16 minute summer is something they spend a lot of time discussing. However, this time is usually spent frantically trapped in an over-crowded commuter train (full of people that are *not* appropriately dressed for high temperatures) that has been rendered useless by a leaf on one of the rails. Other people attempt to make hats out of handkerchiefs, shorts out of long pants and waste precious time looking for a shop that is still selling ice-cream to really appreciate the summer. Older people will insist on comparing every summer with the one in 1976, which sticks in everyone's memory because it lasted at least half an hour. -- Owamanga! http://www.pbase.com/owamanga >Choice of how to best use the 16 minute summer is something they spend >a lot of time discussing. However, this time is usually spent [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and waste precious time looking for a shop that is still selling >ice-cream to really appreciate the summer. Sounds like you've spent a lot of time there. Though actually they won't be looking for ice-cream, because come May bank holiday they will be down on the beach eating an ice-cream in swimming gear, no matter what temperature or condensing humidity. By the time the high temperatures come, the blue skin will be mottled with patches of scarlet bright enough to blow your highlights. SignatureKen Tough >>Ah well, rain I can probably cope with. I only had a bicycle for >>transport to work in sw england, and recall fondly the winter where [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > 1976, which sticks in everyone's memory because it lasted at least > half an hour. Now you know why most spanish hoteliers speak english. They even sell british newspapers. My favourite restaurant out there is the yorkshire lad. You get a yorkshire pudding the size of a dinner plate filled with curry and chips. I learnt more spanish in a week than people know in going there every year for twelve years. I bought a phrase book and off i went. Go to shops where the proprietor doesn't speak english and you suddenly pay normal prices for things. >Now you know why most spanish hoteliers speak english. They even sell >british newspapers. My favourite restaurant out there is the yorkshire lad. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >shops where the proprietor doesn't speak english and you suddenly pay normal >prices for things. It's all changing there too, as people flock into the UK from the crappier parts of Europe, Brits flock out to Spain. I was there last year for 10 days to catch up with buddies and don't think I ever actually crossed paths with a Spaniard. Taxi driver was a Brit, neighbors were Brits, Germans and a couple of cute Netherland girls who played 'Dragostea Din Tei' by O-Zone over and over and over and over...* * Not sure what this song is called in the UK, it never made it to the US, but the lyric was 'Mayer Hee, Mayer Hoo, Mayer Haar, Mayer Ha Ha' and was mainly in Dutch I guess. If it wasn't for the eye-candy it would have been *very* annoying. -- Owamanga! http://www.pbase.com/owamanga > You & Ken need to both pack up & come to Vancouver ASAP!! > It's certainly not "tropical" by any stretch of the imagination, but the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > me. It's certainly not crime free, Roxy, but definitely better. > Bob Raingear...I'd rather be putting my cross-country skis than raingear. As for snow, I have a shovel...never used it :) Just bought a house in the suburbs though so I guess I'll be using that shovel next winter. I'm still too young to pay someone to remove my snow :) > You & Ken need to both pack up & come to Vancouver ASAP!! > It's certainly not "tropical" by any stretch of the imagination, but the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > good after living all over Canada and on both coasts. It's better here, > believe me. It's certainly not crime free, Roxy, but definitely better. Better still, come to S.E. Queensland. I didn't get an entry for ugly, cos I couldn't find anything qualifying. Best I came up with was a mountain scene with some powerlines draped in front of it (damned things). The weather isn't quite tropical, but not icy either. Daytime summer temps are generally quite tolerable in the mid 30's, daytime winter temps in the high teens, nighttime winter only occasionally drops below 0, so we only get the odd frost in winter. Now in autumn, the weather is fantastic. Crime is very low. Actually there are a lot of south africans here now. Drives around the mountain ranges yield lots of photo opportunities - 100m waterfalls, cliffs, green rolling hills, etc etc... The only downer is that all the photo labs think that nothing other than digital or C41 exists - i rely on mailorder to get chemicals to process b&w or E6. > Bob > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> We're very lucky living where we do though. There's no hurricanes, >> typhoons, twisters, earthquakes, snow or other extreme forces of nature. >Better still, come to S.E. Queensland. Australia seems very sensible, except for the place where they put it. [seriously, travel to UK/Canada is a long enough haul from RSA] SignatureKen Tough >>Better still, come to S.E. Queensland. > > Australia seems very sensible, except for the place where they put it. > > [seriously, travel to UK/Canada is a long enough haul from RSA] I've done the Montreal -> Amsterdam -> J'berg route (return) and the Montreal -> JFK -> J'berg route and return. The later is easier on the body; the former better bus class service and of course points on my Northwest FF card... Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> [seriously, travel to UK/Canada is a long enough haul from RSA] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The later is easier on the body; the former better bus class service and >of course points on my Northwest FF card... We find the JHB->London->Toronto->Winnipeg->Montreal->London->JHB route is least tiring, especially if you can break in UK and visit family or pass out on the couch of some pub in windsor for 6 hours. I hear Virgin Upper Class is best, but have never managed to experience that myself. My experience with Northwest will go unmentioned, though it involved a wedding in Italy with no luggage. SignatureKen Tough >>>[seriously, travel to UK/Canada is a long enough haul from RSA] >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > experience that myself. My experience with Northwest will go > unmentioned, though it involved a wedding in Italy with no luggage. That was KLM (via AMS) actually. I've had great service nonetheless with Northwest on Asian routes. Best was getting into Detroit early from Seoul. I asked for an earlier connection out to Montreal and they sent a person specifically to look for my bags off the inbound 747 and to cart them over to the Montreal gate. Worked and saved about 5 hours of my life. No problems at all with NW except one delayed flight out of Salt Lake (B727 flap position switch failure). A competing airline (AA I believe) provided the part, 1 hour delay... KLM @ Amsterdam has been the ONLY airline/airport to delay my luggage, ever, but MANY times. Several times into Frankfurt, Paris, Heathrow and once into Athens my baggage didn't make the connection. Was delivered to the hotel later and that's all that counts. I do the carry on thing when it's a short trip (5 days), but for a two weeker it's hard to pack a carry on with business and casual clothing Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >That was KLM (via AMS) actually. I've had great service nonetheless >with Northwest on Asian routes. Best was getting into Detroit early >from Seoul. [...] On the NW trip we returned via Detroit, but were heading for NY. [Re-routed due to huge thunderstorms, not NW's fault at all]. The landing in Boston, amidst enormous downdraughts, was only the second flight I've ever been on when people were actually screaming. (Just a fond memory...) >KLM @ Amsterdam has been the ONLY airline/airport to delay my luggage, Yeah, in fact it was them that did the screwing-up for NW, since our flight was delayed and they re-routed us and pulled the bags for re-routing. If they'd left them alone, we'd have got them a few hours late but three days earlier. SignatureKen Tough >>That was KLM (via AMS) actually. I've had great service nonetheless >>with Northwest on Asian routes. Best was getting into Detroit early [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > re-routing. If they'd left them alone, we'd have got them a few > hours late but three days earlier. KLM flight from Montreal to Amsterdam uses old MD-11. I took that flight last fall, seemed like going 15 years back compared to the British Airways flight I have taken the week before. KLM plane really sucked: small seats, no leg room, no TV... Really bad compared to other major airlines. Luckily, on the way back, my flight to Amsterdam got cancelled and I missed my Montreal connection. Ended up flying on NW to Detroit. No more KLM for me... > KLM flight from Montreal to Amsterdam uses old MD-11. I took that flight > last fall, seemed like going 15 years back compared to the British [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and I missed my Montreal connection. Ended up flying on NW to Detroit. > No more KLM for me... I don't mind that flight at all ... but I'm always in C class, I don't bother with the TV's, I'd rather read or snooze. I like Schipol for connections (although baggage might be delayed). In the summer months they have switched to 747-300/400's. Air France operates two 747's a day Montreal-Paris so there's a chance we'll see the A380 here, not sure if Dorval can take it, however, and I doubt they'd move the flight to YMX. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> KLM flight from Montreal to Amsterdam uses old MD-11. I took that >> flight last fall, seemed like going 15 years back compared to the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Cheers, > Alan. We used to flky business at work, now it's economy :( Luckily, most major airline improved their economy class a lot. Both Air Canada and British have more room, tall seats with adjustable head rests, foot rests. So it is ok as long, as you don't fly to Asia. My boss told me that even the business class on KLM MD-11 is not that good compared to others. He just like this flight because it has a good connection to Manchester. I preffered my return flight with NW. got bumped to business. As for Air France, last time I went with them, it was coming back from Germany in September 2001. It was their second flight to Canada after 9/11. I would have flown cargo after 7 weeks in Hamburg at a set to work and 3 weeks on North Sea sea trials... The flight to France was nice though, second floor in 747. As quiet as it gets. >> I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking >> because it's something you would never see in Canada. > > It's coming. Hey Al, great noiseless reds and sharp and clear. How much luck printing those vivid colours on an inkjet? p.s put your scanner on ebay yet? > Hey Al, great noiseless reds and sharp and clear. How much luck printing > those vivid colours on an inkjet? p.s put your scanner on ebay yet? So far I've made three prints at two minilabs. No complaints though the second lab had a faint magenta tone that I dislike. He's negotiationg for a new minilab now (with two payments left on the current one that he purchassed for $130K a few years (I'd guess 5) ago. I hardly use my inkjet for color photos anymore. By the time I've adjusted a photo for the inkjet and gone through 2 or 3 small prints, plus the output print, I've spent twice as much as it costs at the minilab. Just does not pay. Since I bought the camera, I've shot two rolls of E-6 and I have a 3rd nearly half shot. Scanner stays. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. I have heard of this snow stuff. Tell me more. > I have heard of this snow stuff. Tell me more. Well, it leaves from time to time, and it causes people to hit small sheroids with a weighted stick. The balls get lost in the snow and they can lie about how far it went. http://www.aliasimages.com/images/KM7D/PICT1500S.jpg (Sorry, wrong place to use fill flash). Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> I have heard of this snow stuff. Tell me more. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cheers, > Alan that would be spheroids unless you have a medical condition i wasn't aware of. I always thought polaroids were something you eskimos got if they sat on the ice flow for too long whilst fishing ;) > that would be spheroids unless you have a medical condition i wasn't aware > of. I always thought polaroids were something you eskimos got if they sat > on the ice flow for too long whilst fishing ;) My keyboard is going. The 4 is near dead (had to hit that last one 3 times) and some letter keys are intermittent. Cheers, Alan. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. (Alan Browne) wrote: >My keyboard is going. Imagine that. :) Cody, http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks >> that would be spheroids unless you have a medical condition i wasn't aware >> of. I always thought polaroids were something you eskimos got if they sat >> on the ice flow for too long whilst fishing ;) > >My keyboard is going. The 4 is near dead (had to hit that last one 3 >times) and some letter keys are intermittent. Just start using roman numerals. It's a tad eccentric and phone numbers can be a bitch, but if the 'X', 'I' and 'V' keys are in good shape, you'll be set for numbers under 40. ;-) -- Owamanga! http://www.pbase.com/owamanga > Just start using roman numerals. It's a tad eccentric and phone > numbers can be a bitch, but if the 'X', 'I' and 'V' keys are in good > shape, you'll be set for numbers under 40. Thanks IV the advice. Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. >> Just start using roman numerals. It's a tad eccentric and phone >> numbers can be a bitch, but if the 'X', 'I' and 'V' keys are in good >> shape, you'll be set for numbers under 40. > >Thanks IV the advice. I is always happy II help. -- Owamanga! http://www.pbase.com/owamanga > I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking > because it's something you would never see in Canada. There's at least one scene similar to that in Toronto, although I no longer remember where. > I must say that I'm a little disapointed with the pictures that were > submitted. I found that, although it is fairly easy to meet the mandate, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I think that Ken's shot is the one I like the most. I find it striking > because it's something you would never see in Canada. I noticed that there were 2 Ken that submitted shots. The one I like best is the "no guns" one. On the other hand, the barbed wire idea is very interesting too. But I find the green background distracting, it softens the hostility of the wire. >I noticed that there were 2 Ken that submitted shots. >The one I like best is the "no guns" one. Ah, sorry, greatly embarrassed not to have realised that. >On the other hand, the barbed wire idea is very interesting too. But I >find the green background distracting, it softens the hostility of the wire. That was an attempt at a dichotomy/irony. (Inviting, yet hostile). There's also an open gate in the background, but it was too distracting if that was more clear. In another shot I desaturated everything but a few bits of greenery, and it worked but I didn't think as well as this one. SignatureKen Tough >>I noticed that there were 2 Ken that submitted shots. >>The one I like best is the "no guns" one. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > a few bits of greenery, and it worked but I didn't think as well as > this one. I didn't consider this point of view. It does work. On the other hand, we don't have more barbed wire here that we have "no guns" signs. We're happy that most of that crap stays down the border. |
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