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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / March 2005

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Zorki 3m Opinions ?

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John Doe - 28 Mar 2005 03:21 GMT
I am thinking of buying one.

Anyone care to share their experience or advice ?

Thanks !
Chris Loffredo - 28 Mar 2005 16:04 GMT
> I am thinking of buying one.
>
> Anyone care to share their experience or advice ?
>
> Thanks !

Reasons to NOT get one:
1) It is a Soviet camera, prone to the notorious quality control
problems (though this one tends to be better than most).
2) It is a 40+ year old camera, which means that a CLA is probably well
past due.
3) You need some technical skills to use it and to get the best results
out of it (for example, see my comments below on regularly checking the
rangefinder)

Reasons to get one:
1) It is one of the better built Soviet cameras
2) It is technically superior to the thread mount Leicas it supposedly
copies (combined rangefinder/viewer window, loading through removable
back, just to mention two things)
3) If it is working properly, it will probably continue to do so for the
rest of your life (long after modern auto-everything wonders are leaking
toxic fluids into landfills)
4) You can get many, cheap lenses for it (Soviet, Leica, modern
Cosina/Voigtländer and many others)
5) I especially like its looks
; )

The general rule for buying this (or any Soviet camera) is:
Either you can carefully check its condition yourself before buying
(watch out for pinholes in the shutter curtain), or the seller will give
a guarantee or a return privilage.
Buying it "blind" means you'll have a more than even chance of getting a
camera which needs expensive repairs.

If you do get it, carefully check the rangefider accuracy at infinity
AND at 1 meter. These are two separate (though interlinked) adjustments
which lose their accuracy fairly easily. Recalibrating the rangefider is
a DIY job, but takes patience and a bit of explaining to do.
I think that the vast majority of the complaints about "lousy Soviet
lenses" are caused by out of adjustment rangefinders.

If you're interested in advice for lenses, just ask and I'll be glad to
prattle on some more...

Good luck!
Dominic Richens - 28 Mar 2005 20:34 GMT
> I am thinking of buying one.
>
> Anyone care to share their experience or advice ?

I don't have one but I know people who do and say they are one of the nicer
FSU cameras.  They have all the features of the Zorki 4 but with nicer
styling.  Basically looks and handles like a real Leica screw mount camera,
but with a bigger brighter combined VF/RF.

Zorki 4 are cheaper (~25$ with a Jupiter 8 lens) because over a million were
made.

If you can, get it with a sliver Jupiter 8 instead of an Industar.

Signature

Dominic Richens | dominic@alumni.uottawa.ca
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

Thom - 31 Mar 2005 12:11 GMT
>> I am thinking of buying one.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>If you can, get it with a sliver Jupiter 8 instead of an Industar.

here here!  I have Zorkies 3 thru 6 with J's and I's and the F:2
Jupiter-8 is super sharp.  Shot on a tripod, 16x20's are easy.

THOM
jones144 - 29 Mar 2005 09:07 GMT
>I am thinking of buying one.
>
>Anyone care to share their experience or advice ?
>
>Thanks !

I just bought a Zorki 4, so I may be of some help. I also have a Kiev
3A.
I've had the Zorki for a month now. It looks good on the bookcase.
Don't.
Unless you like things that just don't work quite right, that is.
The 3M differs only slightly from the Zorki 4, in that the Zorki 4 has
a self timer, which I think is the main difference between them.
Mine works ok, the Zorki, that is, the rangefinder seems accurate, if
the 5x7 prints I got from the resulting exposures are any indication.
They aren't quite what my Contax G1 delivers.  One problem I have with
the Zorki is the little mark that indicates the shutter speed setting
seems to fall in between the numbers, then I have to set it back to
1/30th, count the detents to 1/125th or 1/250th, ect. Seems easier to
adjust the aperture one stop if DOF is no concern.
There is no way to load film quickly.
The Zorki  has the better rangefinder. Up close the Kiev focuses
accurately enough, not at or near infinity though.
The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
you are not paying attention.
They are fun to use. One drawback quality wise is flair problems with
these old single or non coated lenses. Use a lens hood.
Film loading is a bit of a juggling act, but manageble.
Maybe I am too used to my more modern SLR's.
Here are a couple of links I've found in my travels on the internet
that may help you.

http://www.commiecameras.com/

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

http://www.keithberry.telinco.co.uk/Kiev-4.htm
Chris Loffredo - 29 Mar 2005 09:37 GMT
> Mine works ok, the Zorki, that is, the rangefinder seems accurate, if
> the 5x7 prints I got from the resulting exposures are any indication.
> They aren't quite what my Contax G1 delivers.  

If you can see a difference from your Contax G1 in a 5x7 print, then
your rangefinder very likely IS off (or your lens is a dog)!
I can see a difference between my Soviet (1930's Zeiss design) lenses
and my modern Zeiss ones, but starting at much larger enlargements (say
8x10 - depends on subject, etc.) and looking carefully.

> The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
> you are not paying attention.

That is NOT normal, which validates what I said above.

> They are fun to use. One drawback quality wise is flair problems with
> these old single or non coated lenses. Use a lens hood.

Agreed, but good advice for any lens.

> Film loading is a bit of a juggling act, but manageble.

Then you've never loaded a bottom loading thread-mount Leica...
; )
Peter Irwin - 29 Mar 2005 17:01 GMT
>> The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
>> you are not paying attention.
>
> That is NOT normal, which validates what I said above.

It is not normal for rigid lenses. It is normal on the collapsible
Industars.  I think that despite the Zorki 3M in the title of the
thread, jones144 may have a Zorki 1 with a collapsible Industar.

>> Film loading is a bit of a juggling act, but manageable.
>
> Then you've never loaded a bottom loading thread-mount Leica...
> ; )

Even the old bottom loaders are easy once you get the hang of it.
With a properly cut leader and a well developed knack, it takes
well under a minute.

Peter.
Signature

pirwin@ktb.net

Peter Irwin - 29 Mar 2005 20:14 GMT
>>> The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
>>> you are not paying attention.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Industars.  I think that despite the Zorki 3M in the title of the
> thread, jones144 may have a Zorki 1 with a collapsible Industar.

I should have read his post instead of making inferences from
a reply. It is not normal for a rigid mount lens on a Soviet
rangefinder to focus past infinity. It would be a really good
idea to adjust the rangefinder if this seems to be the case.
the tab on the arm which senses the rangefinder may have
got knocked off its proper setting.

The following page is aimed mostly at the older models, but
the priciples are essentially the same for all Zorkis and Feds.

<http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page422.htm>

Peter.
Signature

pirwin@ktb.net

jones144 - 29 Mar 2005 21:31 GMT
>>>> The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
>>>> you are not paying attention.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Peter.
Thanks for the link. I haven't seen that one before.
jones144 - 29 Mar 2005 21:30 GMT
>>> The Zorki has no problem there, it just focuses right past infinity if
>>> you are not paying attention.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Peter.

I have, as I stated previously, the Zorki 4, with a Jupiter 8 50mm F2
lens. The Zorki 3M question was from the original poster.

jones144 - 29 Mar 2005 21:27 GMT
>> Mine works ok, the Zorki, that is, the rangefinder seems accurate, if
>> the 5x7 prints I got from the resulting exposures are any indication.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>Then you've never loaded a bottom loading thread-mount Leica...
>; )

No, I haven't, but I have loaded, the Zorki 4, and I don't find it as
difficult as some have said, or imagined. I am a patient person.
Film loading is no picnic,but it is manageable. I've never owned any
Leica's.
As for focusing past infinity, I tested that very feature, set the
lens at max infinity, and the resulting shot was pretty much a blurr.
I have no doubt the rangefinder needs adjusting. It was made in 1959,
the lens in 1958.
Chris Loffredo - 30 Mar 2005 08:12 GMT
>>>Film loading is a bit of a juggling act, but manageble.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> difficult as some have said, or imagined. I am a patient person.
>  Film loading is no picnic,but it is manageable.

Hi,

Please note the smiley in my previous answer: I don't find loading
Zorkis at all difficult, and the Leica isn't such a big deal either,
just unnecessarily akward...

> As for focusing past infinity, I tested that very feature, set the
> lens at max infinity, and the resulting shot was pretty much a blurr.
> I have no doubt the rangefinder needs adjusting. It was made in 1959,
> the lens in 1958.

If I understand correctly, the lens scale itself goes past infinity.
This means the lens has a problem as well as (or instead of) the
rangefinder.
You could try putting a piece of ground glass/oiled paper/"magic"
cellophane tape on the film guide rails (camera back open, shutter set
to B and held open) and see where your lens really focusses; especially
if the "real" infinity mark is sharp at infinity.

I think this is a good illustration of what Soviet cameras are often
about: They can be very nice cameras with excellent lenses, but you have
to invest some time and effort to get them working properly.
jones144 - 30 Mar 2005 18:36 GMT
>Please note the smiley in my previous answer: I don't find loading
>Zorkis at all difficult, and the Leica isn't such a big deal either,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>about: They can be very nice cameras with excellent lenses, but you have
>to invest some time and effort to get them working properly.

I'll try the cellophane tape trick out once I finish the current roll
in the camera. Never heard of that one before.
The lens does stop positively at the infinity mark.
So if I set the lens at infinity at f8-11, and ignore the rangefinder,
I should get sharp focus at far objects.
I've been going by what the rangefinder focus is telling me. I'll
have to see about getting the rangefinder calibrated. Should not be
too hard, from what I see in the link someone posted above.

For anyone thinking about the Zorki vs Keiv, the Zorki is much
lighter, and I doubt the light meter will prove accurate, so the Zorki
make be a better choice.
Chris Loffredo - 31 Mar 2005 07:46 GMT
> I'll try the cellophane tape trick out once I finish the current roll
> in the camera. Never heard of that one before.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> lighter, and I doubt the light meter will prove accurate, so the Zorki
> make be a better choice.

Hi

I hope I'm not repeating the obvious, but:

Do the cellophane tape test with your lens at full aperture.

If your lens itself does not focus properly (infinity objects should
sharp on the cellophane with the lens' focussing scale set at infinity,
the same with onjects one meter with foucs set at one meter - camera on
tripod and distance measured carefully with a ruler), fiddling with the
rangefinder is pointless.
Once you're sure your lens' focus is set properly (collimated), then you
can adjust the rangefinder.

A small focussing error, even allowing for depth of field, can change
the performance of a lens from excellent to lousy.
jones144 - 31 Mar 2005 09:26 GMT
>> I'll try the cellophane tape trick out once I finish the current roll
>> in the camera. Never heard of that one before.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>A small focussing error, even allowing for depth of field, can change
>the performance of a lens from excellent to lousy.

If I can find that extra focusing screen I had for a Mamiya now long
gone, that should work well.
I like the Zorki and will probably use it a lot if I can get it
adjusted. It has me thinking I just may buy one of those old Leica's I
see on ebay all the time. I already have one lens for it.
Thanks for the tips.
 
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