Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / March 2005
Decent Used SLR
|
|
Thread rating:  |
raffir@gmail.com - 24 Mar 2005 00:48 GMT I've been taking photos for a few years w/ a Minolta SRT-202 I got from my dad. I've enjoyed it a lot but I'm faced with the problem that there's no automatic mode, meaning no one can take a picture for me, and it is about the size and weight of a brick. As much as I love it, I've been looking at used cameras at www.henrys.com (I live in the Greater Toronto Area) and I'm thinking about a used Canon AF camera (they have some prettty reasonable prices on EOS models, and they all seem to have DOF preview, the one feature I absolutely insist on, although a remote would be nice). I'd also like something relatively light and not too large. I think I'll go with a Canon b/c I'm a little more familiar with them and from what I understand the lenses tend to be cheaper than Nikon ones while being pretty good value for the money. I'm wondering what people think about the EOS/Rebel lines, and if there are any particularly recommended ones that can be found used. I don't want to spend too much, as I'll still need to get a lens, presumably, and I really don't want to trade in my SRT-202. The site I'm looking at is
http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?idx=0&sortKey=price &order=ASC&storeId=10001&catalogId=10101&departmentId=10409&categoryId=10694&mfN ame=CANON
I'd like to know what people have to say about the Canon lines. If anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like to hear, too.
Chris Brown - 24 Mar 2005 12:30 GMT >I'm wondering what people think about the EOS/Rebel lines, and if there >are any particularly recommended ones that can be found used. I don't >want to spend too much, as I'll still need to get a lens, presumably, >and I really don't want to trade in my SRT-202. If you can find one, you could do a lot worse than a secondhand EOS 50E (that's the European designation - don't know what it's called in the US, but it's the predecessor to the EOS 30, or EOS Elan7 in the US). Should be able to pick one up for not too much.
The EOS 300 and 500 (I think these are called Rebels in the US) are ubiqutous and cheap secondhand, but a bit basic compared to the 50/30/Elan line.
Skip M - 24 Mar 2005 14:02 GMT >>I'm wondering what people think about the EOS/Rebel lines, and if there >>are any particularly recommended ones that can be found used. I don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ubiqutous and cheap secondhand, but a bit basic compared to the 50/30/Elan > line. A better bet might be the A2/EOS5. Five focus points (vs. 3 for the ElanII/EOS50) spot meter, 5fps. And can be had, usually, for under $250US.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Paul Bielec - 24 Mar 2005 15:19 GMT > I've been taking photos for a few years w/ a Minolta SRT-202 I got from > my dad. I've enjoyed it a lot but I'm faced with the problem that [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like > to hear, too. Depends how much exactly you would like to spend. If you can afford it, try to find an used Elan 7N or 7NE. They sell for 500 CAN and 550 CAN respectively new. This camera is light and silent. It has semi-pro features. I'm planning on getting one myself. Now, if you don't want to spend that much, you can get a Rebel. My wife wanted a "less-complicated" than the Elan and I bought her an used EOS 300 (Rebel 2000). I saw one with the kit lens selling for 250 or 300 CAN in Montreal. It has the DOF preview and 5 or 7 AF points. Very nice camera for the price. Also, Canon makes the cheapest DSLR at the moment. So, if you start with Canon system, you'll be able to buy a used Digital Rebel pretty cheap if you eventually decide to buy a DSLR. I used to be with Nikon but for amateur level gear, I find Canon cheaper. I have an SLR, a DSLR and 3 lenses. I spent 2000 CAN in total.
Alan Browne - 24 Mar 2005 15:49 GMT > there's no automatic mode, meaning no one can take a picture for me, > and it is about the size and weight of a brick. You say that like it's a bad thing.
> As much as I love it, I've been looking at used cameras at > www.henrys.com (I live in the Greater Toronto Area) and I'm thinking [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > what I understand the lenses tend to be cheaper than Nikon ones while > being pretty good value for the money. Depends what you get.
> I'm wondering what people think about the EOS/Rebel lines, and if > there are any particularly recommended ones that can be found used. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like > to hear, too. An Elan 7 would be nice, there are a few on the used market.
Henry's prices seem too high to me, at least on new equipment. On used it's harder to guage. Compare prices there against several prioces for the same item sold on ebay for the best idea.
Cheers, Alan
 Signature -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
ian lincoln - 24 Mar 2005 16:13 GMT >> there's no automatic mode, meaning no one can take a picture for me, and >> it is about the size and weight of a brick. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Cheers, > Alan i beleive there were problems with the control dial on the eos 5. would a 3 be better?
Skip M - 25 Mar 2005 07:17 GMT > i beleive there were problems with the control dial on the eos 5. would a > 3 be better? A 3 would be better, it is a more advanced camera. The command dial was a problem with the 5/A2, but I've had mine for more than 5 years without a problem. Of course, since I got the 20D last Sept, I haven't used it much... Many of the cameras were repaired with a proper metal shaft and ratchet, otherwise it is a fine camera, and very capable. The EOS3 is better sealed, heavier (tougher construction), more focus points, more metering points, and has a better eye control, works in vertical and horizontal, the 5/A2E only works on horizontal.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
raffir@gmail.com - 25 Mar 2005 19:15 GMT I think I'm going to decide between a II/IIE, an A2, and an Elan 7 (really pushing it.) Is there anywhere cheaper to get used cameras in the GTA? I have a Minolta 7000si with a kit lens I've never really used that I guess I could trade in... On a related note, how're the used camera dealers in the US like B&H or KEH? They seem much cheaper... How's shipping to Canada?
Lisa Horton - 25 Mar 2005 19:50 GMT > I think I'm going to decide between a II/IIE, an A2, and an Elan 7 > (really pushing it.) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > On a related note, how're the used camera dealers in the US like B&H or > KEH? They seem much cheaper... How's shipping to Canada? Tough choice, they're all good. Between the A2 and the Elan 7, the A2 is more capable, but larger and heavier. The Elan is almost as capable, but much smaller, lighter, and also very quiet. If you were considering one of the ECF versions, I'd probably suggest the Elan 7e as it has the best ECF of any Canon SLR.
One other thing to consider, since you're on a budget. The Elan 7 will have more trouble with older third party lenses than the A2 will. The A2 is very forgiving, the Elan 7 not so much at all.
I've owned both of these, and liked both very much. How much? My little snapshot digital, which has downloadable shutter sounds, current has the A2 shutter sound downloaded :)
Lisa
Frank Pittel - 26 Mar 2005 11:33 GMT : >> there's no automatic mode, meaning no one can take a picture for me, and : >> it is about the size and weight of a brick. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] : > Cheers, : > Alan
: i beleive there were problems with the control dial on the eos 5. would a 3 : be better? The EOS 3 doesn't use a control dial so it wouldn't have the same problem. :-)
 Signature Keep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com
raffir@gmail.com - 27 Mar 2005 02:28 GMT Any thoughts on the IIe and II? I'm not really sure I need anything more...
ian lincoln - 27 Mar 2005 10:53 GMT > Any thoughts on the IIe and II? I'm not really sure I need anything > more... If that is the american term for the 50 and 50E then yeah great camera
raffir@gmail.com - 27 Mar 2005 20:20 GMT OK, I think I'm going to get the IIe (smaller than the A2, and cheaper to boot if I buy from the US). Is there any compelling reason to get the A2 instead?
> > Any thoughts on the IIe and II? I'm not really sure I need anything > > more... > > If that is the american term for the 50 and 50E then yeah great camera Skip M - 28 Mar 2005 14:03 GMT Spot meter, 5 focus points vs. 3, 5 fps vs. 2.5, better built in flash (zooms with focal length) less crop in viewfinder, but still not 100%. Not all that much bigger (we have one of each in the house.)
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
> OK, I think I'm going to get the IIe (smaller than the A2, and cheaper > to boot if I buy from the US). Is there any compelling reason to get [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> If that is the american term for the 50 and 50E then yeah great > camera AnOvercomer 02 - 28 Mar 2005 20:07 GMT http://photonotes.org/reviews/5-50-30/
John - 29 Mar 2005 19:24 GMT I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto focusing with a sigma lens I have. Works sometimes and doesn't others. Works fine with Canon lenses...
> Any thoughts on the IIe and II? I'm not really sure I need anything > more... Jeremy - 29 Mar 2005 19:36 GMT > I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto focusing > with a sigma lens I have. Works sometimes and doesn't others. So if it does not always work, why would you recommend it, and say you're happy with it?
ian lincoln - 30 Mar 2005 00:16 GMT >> I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto focusing >> with a sigma lens I have. Works sometimes and doesn't others. > > So if it does not always work, why would you recommend it, and say you're > happy with it? hes' recoommending the camera no the lens. As for sigma. They are known for their compatibility problems with cameras that are introduced after the lens is manufactured. They didn't pay for an EF licence but reverse engineer. I too have a sigma that won't work with my camera. Even modern sigmas say 18months old won't work with the 20D. Personally i have also seen sigmas pro lenses fail right out of the box. Also a repaired one fall apart in my hands after it has been repaired. I won't touch sigma with a barge pole. There is a reason they are a cheap third party lens manufacturer. If you must buy non brand lenses get tokina or tamron.
Skip M - 30 Mar 2005 05:46 GMT >>> I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto focusing >>> with a sigma lens I have. Works sometimes and doesn't others. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > with a barge pole. There is a reason they are a cheap third party lens > manufacturer. If you must buy non brand lenses get tokina or tamron. On the other hand, I've used a Sigma 17-35 f2.8-4 EX HSM and a Sigma 15mm f2.8 Fisheye for about 6 years now, with no problems. And they have worked on the A2 they were bought for, my 1n, D30 and 20D. And they worked on my wife's 10D, her cousin's 1Ds and my friend's 1D mkII. And my Tokina 28-70 f2.8 ATX Pro gives me fits on my 20D, with random "Err99" messages, but works fine with my film cameras and my old D30.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
ian lincoln - 30 Mar 2005 11:32 GMT >>>> I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto >>>> focusing [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Tokina 28-70 f2.8 ATX Pro gives me fits on my 20D, with random "Err99" > messages, but works fine with my film cameras and my old D30. Thats very interesting. perhaps its a really bad quality control issue. As for tokina thats worrying, i was looking at the f2,8 80-200. so now its down to the 100-300 usm or the 80-200 f4. L. The latter is twice the price of the former. It also doesn't have the same focal range. So its down to focus speed and the constant aperture and quality. I have a 300D and may go for a 20D. The 100-300 is supposed to be surprisingly good optically. The usm design may be the ring type which is the fastest version. Would a humble 6mp sensor be able to tell the difference between the two? lines per mm and all that.
Skip M - 30 Mar 2005 13:35 GMT >>>>> I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto >>>>> focusing [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > version. Would a humble 6mp sensor be able to tell the difference between > the two? lines per mm and all that. My wife has the 100-300, and really likes it. She didn't have the 10D long enough to really get a feel for it with the 100-300, but it works well on her 20D, so it should, too, with the 10D or RebelD. As far as the Sigma, I have a suspicion that it's related to EX lenses working, non EX lenses having compatibility problems. Both of the lenses I mentioned are EX, and several others have mentioned the same thing.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
AnOvercomer 02 - 30 Mar 2005 15:57 GMT (ian lincoln) wrote:
>so now its down to the 100-300 usm or > the 80-200 f4. L. The latter is twice the > price of the former. It also doesn't have > the same focal range. So its down to > focus speed and the constant aperture > and quality. From what I have read, the 100-300 has about the same resolution as the 75-300 but has Ring USM that focuses faster than any of the 70-200 L USM lenses due to its smaller size. People say it's pretty good between 100 and 200. The 70-200 will have better contrast and be sharper at wider apertures, but that is to be expected when comparing a Pro L zoom to a consumer zoom, especially when the consumer zoom has a greater zoom ratio. I have read that the EF 100-300 f4.5-5.6 USM compares well with the EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6L IS USM.
You can find some reviews here: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/ and at the links page below.
Cody,
http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks
raffir@gmail.com - 30 Mar 2005 18:43 GMT OK, I'm trying to decide between an A2, a IIe, and a 7.
I like the IIe because of the ECF, which neither of the others have (I haven't been able to find an A2e at the same price). It also has the ability to tell you what settings you need for a desired DOF, which I don't think the A2 has (apparently you can focus on the nearest object and farthest object and find out the necessary settings for that DOF). The 7 has 16 focus points, but is kind of expensive and has no ECF, and I hear it's picky with third-party lenses. It's also more expensive than the other two, and I could spend more money on lenses if I got one of the others...
Any thoughts?
Skip M - 31 Mar 2005 02:01 GMT > OK, I'm trying to decide between an A2, a IIe, and a 7. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Any thoughts? The Eye Control on an A2E is just this side of useless, IMHO. It only works in landscape orientation, unless you disable the ball switch that keeps it from working in portrait orientation. I'm not really sure why Canon did this. There is the 7E, which is ECF, but it is more expensive. The A2 does have Depth of Field AE, just like the IIe.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
ian lincoln - 30 Mar 2005 21:46 GMT (ian lincoln) wrote:
>so now its down to the 100-300 usm or > the 80-200 f4. L. The latter is twice the > price of the former. It also doesn't have > the same focal range. So its down to > focus speed and the constant aperture > and quality. From what I have read, the 100-300 has about the same resolution as the 75-300 but has Ring USM that focuses faster than any of the 70-200 L USM lenses due to its smaller size. People say it's pretty good between 100 and 200. The 70-200 will have better contrast and be sharper at wider apertures, but that is to be expected when comparing a Pro L zoom to a consumer zoom, especially when the consumer zoom has a greater zoom ratio. I have read that the EF 100-300 f4.5-5.6 USM compares well with the EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6L IS USM.
You can find some reviews here: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/ and at the links page below.
Thanks mate. the 75-300 review compares the 75-300 with the 300 L F4. It mentions the scan done at 4000dpi and the author doesn't believe that even this resolution scan shows the difference. The author also mentions 80lp/mm. Can a mere 6mp sensor record that? For that matter could the 20D cope?
Cody,
http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks
AnOvercomer 02 - 30 Mar 2005 22:51 GMT (ian lincoln) wrote:
>The author also mentions 80lp/mm. Can > a mere 6mp sensor record that? For that > matter could the 20D cope? I have never owned a digital camera and am therefore unfamiliar with them, but there are a lot of folks around here who own DSLRs who can probably answer that question.
Cody,
http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks
Skip M - 30 Mar 2005 05:42 GMT >> I am very happy with my IIe. One note it seems to not like auto focusing >> with a sigma lens I have. Works sometimes and doesn't others. > > So if it does not always work, why would you recommend it, and say you're > happy with it? Because it's more of a lens issue than a camera issue. Sigmas are known to have compatibility issues with Canon cameras of generations subsequent to the one for which the lens was designed.
 Signature Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
wsrphoto - 24 Mar 2005 16:10 GMT > I've been taking photos for a few years w/ a Minolta SRT-202 I got from > my dad. I've enjoyed it a lot but I'm faced with the problem that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like > to hear, too. Canon has some excellent equipment. Do you have many Minolta lenses for the SRT? If you do, why don't just upgrade to a leter model Minolta non-AF camera, such as the XD/XD-11, which has manual, aperture-priority, and shutter-priority (only manual focus Minolta camera with this feature), or a X-700 which has manual, aperture-priority and program modes? Both of these series cameras are lighter, smaller, and better cameras. The XD-11 was the Minolta version of the Leica R4 (cooperative development), and the X-700 has a huge system built around it with remote controllers, flashes, auto-bellows, etc., and will work with its flashes and Pocket Wizards for flash metering and shutter triggering. Minolta made excellent lenses for their entire series of SRT and X-series cameras.
Just some thoughts. Good luck.
--Scott--
PGG - 24 Mar 2005 16:42 GMT > Canon has some excellent equipment. Do you have many Minolta lenses > for the SRT? If you do, why don't just upgrade to a leter model [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for flash metering and shutter triggering. Minolta made excellent > lenses for their entire series of SRT and X-series cameras. Not a bad idea however the cameras are still manual focus. When I ask people to take a snapshot of my wife and I, and hand them a manual-focus camera, they don't know how to focus. I often try to pre-focus for them, or ask them to adjust the focus. It is asking too much for a stranger however and I usually get out-of-focus shots.
Lisa Horton - 24 Mar 2005 21:39 GMT > I've been taking photos for a few years w/ a Minolta SRT-202 I got from > my dad. I've enjoyed it a lot but I'm faced with the problem that [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like > to hear, too. I would recommend an older but higher model over a Rebel. Some suggestions that have been made that I agree with are the Elan 7, a very good camera that is relatively small, light, quiet and capable. Also an EOS 5 / A2E, with a caveat. The command dial is prone to failure, but once it's been repaired it rarely fails again. The repair is around $100. Apart from that, it's an excellent and very capable camera. It has, IMHO, the best built in flash of any Canon SLR, in part because it's a zooming flash.
All Rebels lack the rear control dial, which is very useful, and virtually essential for convenient operation in manual mode.
Lisa
Al Denelsbeck - 25 Mar 2005 05:20 GMT > I would recommend an older but higher model over a Rebel. Some > suggestions that have been made that I agree with are the Elan 7, a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lisa Huh! No mention of the ubitquitous EOS 50/Elan II, with its remarkable art-deco styling...
;-)
- Al.
 Signature To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net
Lisa Horton - 25 Mar 2005 06:58 GMT > Huh! No mention of the ubitquitous EOS 50/Elan II, with its > remarkable art-deco styling... > > ;-) > > - Al. Art Deco? I could think of other descriptors :)
Seriously, I feel that the Elan 7 is enough better to be the better choice.
Lisa
Roger - 24 Mar 2005 22:40 GMT ... big snip ...
>I'd like to know what people have to say about the Canon lines. If >anyone can recommend anything else that's not too expensive, I'd like >to hear, too. I'm sorry this is a bit off the mark, but I've been continually re-evaluating my SLR systems in the glow of the digital onslaught. I'm very partial to fully manual cameras and have several. I also have been using a new 45mm f2.8 AI-P manual focus Nikkor lens. For the kind of street, family and event photography I do, I don't know if I have a lens that meets my needs better than this one. I like it so much for travel that I based my most recent evaluation of my system about this lens (and a couple of others).
In the evaluation, I included the following cameras that I own (F3, F100, F5, Leica M6, Contax T3 and others) plus something from the Nikon FM/FE/FM3a lineup. I used to own a FM2n and it's the only camera that I wish I had never sold.
Looking at everything I want in a basic camera and putting weight on viewfinder quality, low light usage, ergonomics, weight and portability (for travel), focus indication (lots of low light work with no strobe), easy of use and strobe integration for when available light becomes light-available, the Nikon F100 won hands down. It beat my F5 and the FM3a by a considerable margin. I like all these cameras a lot, but for one camera that can do a bangup job in basic photography, give very good viewfinder indication of manual focus, work well in existing or low light and do a brainless job of integrating a strobe when absolutely necessary, the F100 won. I was a bit surprised at the paper result, but in the usage result, it has been the camera that I have been carrying on a daily basis.
The prices are crashing on film cameras. These near pro models offer amazing control over the process and are of course very useable cameras. I've given up on nostalgia lately and gone for utility. The F100 comes out on top for me.
I share this, not to make a convert, only to indicate that when it comes to seriously taking pictures, my views have recently changed from my venerable (model T) Nikon F3HP to the F100.
FWIW:
Regards, Roger
raffir@gmail.com - 24 Mar 2005 23:33 GMT Would that I could afford an F100...
I think I've narrowed it down to the following models, more or less:
EOS 100 $240 EOS 650/500 ~$160 A2 $250 Elan II/EOS 50 $250 Elan IIE $280 Elan 7 $295
All prices are in Canadian dollars.
I'd prefer to spend less as I could get a good lens...at these prices I probably won't be able to get much in the way of lenses, esp. in the upper range. As far as I can tell, what I really need are DOF, an ability to override the ISO setting (so I can take 400 at 320, for example), and I'd like something small and light if possible, although I guess anything fits that description next to the SRT-202.
Any thoughts?
AnOvercomer 02 - 25 Mar 2005 01:03 GMT raffir wrote:
> think I've narrowed it down to the > following models, more or less: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Elan 7 $295 >All prices are in Canadian dollars. I got my Elan 7n with a vertical grip, in the original boxes, with B&H reciept and 7 year Mack warranty for $285 USD plus $15 USD for shipping, on the used market. The original buyer paid about $390 USD on 06-16-2004. I bought it about a month ago. You might want to check www.keh.com Beware of scams if you shop Ebay. You may have to hunt around to find a used 7n, it just came out last year, but the original Elan 7 and Elan II should be easy to find.
>I'd prefer to spend less as I could get a > good lens...at these prices I probably > won't be able to get much in the way of > lenses, esp. in the upper range. You could get a 50 f1.8 now and get a good zoom lens later. The 28-105 f3.5-4.5 USM is pretty good for the price. I have a couple of Rebels and I much prefer using the 7n, faster, more accurate AF, faster frame rate (4 fps), less shutterlag, faster flash sync speed and flash exposure compensation, quieter, better handling, better construction, better viewfinder, mirror lockup, easier to use in manual mode, and it has 13 custom fuctions and ETTL II flash metering with EX flashes. The Elan 7n is far better than a Rebel for serious photography. The KM Maxxum 7 and Nikon N80 are good midrange SLRs too.
Cody,
http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks
Lisa Horton - 25 Mar 2005 07:00 GMT > Would that I could afford an F100... > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any thoughts? Given your stated priorities, I'd pick the Elan 7 first, as it's smaller and lighter than the others, but still competent. Second choice would be the A2, of course with the caveat that the command dial might fail.
Lisa
Walter Clayton - 26 Mar 2005 07:20 GMT Friend:
If you want a cheap solution, just get a Minolta QTSI with its base lens. It can be found on E-Bay. Get a refurbished one, rather than a new one, if you really want to watch the price. Complete outfits, including the lens can be found for under $100.00. Also, do not get rid of the older Minolta. The SRT series was a wonderful one. :) Good Luck!
|
|
|