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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / June 2004Which do you consider more important......
.....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror lockup? Cody, http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks You can always use an external meter if you want spot metering, but it's hard to avoid camera shake from mirror bounce if you can't lockup before exposure.  SignatureRobert D Feinman Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs http://robertdfeinman.com mail: robertdfeinman@netscape.net > > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > > lockup? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it's hard to avoid camera shake from mirror bounce if you can't lockup > before exposure. You can always use a heavier tripod, but there are things you can do with an in-camera spotmeter that you can't do with an external one. Namely, enter an appropriate exposure adjustment for the subject, and then do the lock AF/AE with a half press, recompose, and shoot drill. Works great for concert and event photography where the light's changing fast, but not as fast as the recompose-shoot sequence. David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan Robert Feinman said: >> .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror lockup? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > hard to avoid camera shake from mirror bounce if you can't lockup before > exposure. A very good point. I would take MLU over spot metering anytime. The only camera I have that does that is the old Nikon F2. The Canon EOS guys have this psuedo-MLU, but it's not the same... SignatureOh dear. Looks like my signature took off... Reward offered. Bravo! You created a new discussion about pseudo- MLU? For the needs of a lot of photographers the "pseudo-MLU" works very fine. > Robert Feinman said: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > does that is the old Nikon F2. The Canon EOS guys have this psuedo-MLU, > but it's not the same... >Bravo! > >You created a new discussion about pseudo- MLU? >For the needs of a lot of photographers the "pseudo-MLU" works very fine. WTF is "pseudo-MLU" anyway? It's an SLR mirror. It's down, it's up, or it's locked up. Where does 'pseudo' come into things? >> Robert Feinman said: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> does that is the old Nikon F2. The Canon EOS guys have this psuedo-MLU, >> but it's not the same... SignatureW . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- I guess it comes from Nikon or Canon FD users who are used to flipping the mirror up manually by lever or special button. Canon, in the "lower" bodies has a system that, via a custom function, delays the shutter opening for 2 or 10 seconds after the mirror has lift. (pseudo MLU for some "experts"!) The "higher" bodies lift the mirror via a custom function by pressing the shutter release and stays in position until you release again, with a maximum of 30 seconds. This system may also be linked to the timer. > >Bravo! > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >> does that is the old Nikon F2. The Canon EOS guys have this psuedo-MLU, > >> but it's not the same... [SNIP] > > WTF is "pseudo-MLU" anyway? It's an SLR mirror. It's down, > > it's up, or > > it's locked up. Where does 'pseudo' come into things? > I guess it comes from Nikon or Canon FD users who are used to > flipping the mirror up manually by lever or special button. Or Pentax: notably the LX, but several other bodies have 'real' MLU that works this way too. > Canon, in the "lower" bodies has a system that, via a custom > function, delays the shutter opening for 2 or 10 seconds after the > mirror has lift. > (pseudo MLU for some "experts"!) This is getting more common - sadly it is the way the Pentax MX-S deals with MLU as well (2s delay), which is one of its relatively few real bad points. I find that 'real' MLU is much nicer to work with. The shutter fires as soon as the button is pressed, remote cameras can be left with the mirror locked, series of shots (inc. with MD) can be taken without 're-setting' the MLU in between, no battery drain, etc. etc. > The "higher" bodies lift the mirror via a custom function by > pressing the shutter release and stays in position until you release > again, with a maximum of 30 seconds. > This system may also be linked to the timer. This is nearly up to the standard of 'real' MLU, apart from that stupid 30s limit - presumably there is a battery drain when the mirror is up or something like that. Shame. Peter Mirror lockup. Correct exposure is not much good if there's camera shake :-) SignatureColm > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > Mirror lockup. Correct exposure is not much good if there's camera shake :-) Mirror lockup is most important for exposures between 1/4 and 2 seconds in duration. If you seldom take pictures in that shutter speed range, then you don't have a great need it. Some people (good photographers) depend on spot metering more than others. (owners of medium- and low-end Canon cameras ;-) >>Mirror lockup. Correct exposure is not much good if there's camera shake :-) > > Mirror lockup is most important for exposures between 1/4 and 2 seconds > in duration. If you seldom take pictures in that shutter speed range, > then you don't have a great need it. I would say more like between 1/4 and 1/125... but the range is really camera model dependant, how fast the mirror slaps, how much 'intended' and natural damping occurs, vibration modes/coupling to the lens mass, tripod head, etc. It is one area where a heavy camera probably has an advantage (if on a good tripod) over a lighter body. Signature--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- >> Mirror lockup is most important for exposures between 1/4 and 2 seconds >> in duration. If you seldom take pictures in that shutter speed range, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > area where a heavy camera probably has an advantage (if on a good > tripod) over a lighter body. Here's an article saying between 1/4 and 1/60 for > 299mm lenses: http://www.photo.net/nature/mlu On the other hand, here's an article saying the problem only starts around 1/8 to 1/4 in most cases: http://www.poelking.com/wbuch/scharf/index_e.htm >>>Mirror lockup is most important for exposures between 1/4 and 2 seconds >>>in duration. If you seldom take pictures in that shutter speed range, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.photo.net/nature/mlu Good link. It serves to illustrate my point above. (Although the lack of damping at the 32 Hz (8 cycles/ (0.25 sec)) is suspicious). Different configurations will result in different results. Change the mass of the lens and/or the stiffness of the mount, and entirely different results will occur. Change the camera body and a whole new model is needed (as the many responses to the first article at the link attest). Any mechanical engineer can give great examples of small changes in mass, coupling and damping having significant effects in vibration. [ Sidebar: The EOS 1v has "active damping" to quickly bring the mirror slap vibration under control. (not sure how). It also has a 'catch' to hold the mirror open such that long exposures don't require battery power to hold the mirror up. ] > On the other hand, here's an article saying the problem only starts > around 1/8 to 1/4 in most cases: > > http://www.poelking.com/wbuch/scharf/index_e.htm This is a subject which will always have a wide latitiude of _good_ answers. It is, as I state above, really dependant on the coupling of a lot of different elements. In the myriad configurations available to a 35mm shooter, the range of answers is pretty broad. IAC, if a proper exposure is for 2 sec., I assume that most of the vibration has damped out much earlier (1/4 sec) (despite your first link), and as such little vibration effect would be recorded on the film... that is really what caused my first reply. Cheers, Alan. Signature--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- You can't bracket for shake..... :-) SignatureColm > > Mirror lockup. Correct exposure is not much good if there's camera shake :-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Some people (good photographers) depend on spot metering more than others. > (owners of medium- and low-end Canon cameras ;-) On the other hand, there are imo more situations where you may need spot metering then mlu. Consider the Nikon F100! Spot meter but no mlu. I think it depends on the situation you're shooting in. > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? Spot metering. But I have both. Signature--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks Why choose between them? I own a Pentax *ist, which has both features. I'm sure there's other cameras out there that do also. > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks I'd prefer a direct view (RF or TLR) camera with no mirror slap to an SLR with lockup and no idea what i'm shooting- and frankly I don't notice mirror slap often anyway. I don't consider a spotmeter particularly condusive to my style of shooting either. SignatureMartin Francis http://www.sixbysix.co.uk "Go not to Usenet for counsel, for it will say both no, and yes, and no, and yes...." Martin Francis said: >> .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror lockup? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mirror slap often anyway. I don't consider a spotmeter particularly > condusive to my style of shooting either. The first time I realised just how important MLU is, was when I started messing around with nightscape photography. Little lights in the distance become little lines in the distance - even with a camera as soft as the EOS 30 (Elan 7e). MLU makes a big difference in that situation, as well as in macro photography. I find that the partial meter in the EOS camera series works fine for me. Never really needed a spot meter. SignatureAsk yourself, "What would Elvis do?" spot meter! > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks >.....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror >lockup? I prefer mirror lockup.. Colyn Goodson Camera manuals and mercury battery fix http://www.colyngoodson.com > .....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror > lockup? > > Cody, > > http://community-2.webtv.net/AnOvercomer02/PhotographyLinks I once compared a Hassy, which vibrated like crazy, and a Rollei, with no vibration at all. Both w/ Zeiss lenses. Couldn't tell the difference. When I had spot or lockup, I never used it, but then I never use lite cameras. If all is well, I think the vibration should be gone before the shutter starts to move, and as far as metering goes, I'm not going to figure or calibrate every one. That's all I'd be doing, so I just use one meter. The answer is: I wouldn't pay a dime for either one. Bob Hickey www.Pbase.com/bobhickey/galleries >.....so far as an in the camera feature, spot metering or mirror >lockup? As with most things, it's totally dependant on what sort of photography you wish to do. If I had to choose between the two features, I'd go for spot metering. SignatureW . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
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