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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / May 2008

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[SI] Shoot-In Point of View is Visible

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jimkramer - 02 May 2008 14:54 GMT
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
Troy Piggins - 02 May 2008 15:11 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov 

Well done to all those who posted.  I am really pleased there were
13 submissions.  I wish I had a chance to submit one myself.

Not really sure of what the critiquing "rules" are for the SI,
but I'll have a crack at it from an amatuer/novice point of view.

There were several shots that I suspected were going to be there
in some form or other.

I quite liked Bowser's view from the motorbike - does leave me
feeling like a ride :)

But for me the standout is Helen's shot.  I don't know whether
it's the mood I'm in, or whether it's because my long gone
grandmother would have turned 87 within the last week, but that
shot really put me in the place of an elderly lady's "point of
view".  The wrinkly hand, the writing on the card.  All of it
screamed emotion to me.

Signature

Troy Piggins
I always appreciate critique.

Annika1980 - 02 May 2008 17:20 GMT
> But for me the standout is Helen's shot.  

As usual.

Oh yeah, I'm Helen!
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Annika1980 - 03 May 2008 04:51 GMT
> >http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
> Not really sure of what the critiquing "rules" are for the SI,
> but I'll have a crack at it from an amatuer/novice point of view.

I shall save my critique until all the submissions are posted.

What?  That's it?  Well, ok then .....

Helen's pic was the class of the field. It tells a story and the
viewer can almost feel the sadness in the old woman in the pic.
Bowser's shot was very good as well.
The super wide-angle shot from Tully was somewhat interesting.
Ken's pic did nothing for me  .... maybe it was because the color was
off.
So now we know what a Wilba looks like.
Paul Furman's wasn't bad considering it was taken from a commercial
airliner.
Rich Pos is a drunk.
I liked the punchy colors in Doug Jewell's pic (Ken, are you
listening?).
Walter Banks needs a new lens.
Jim Kramer needs a new cat.
My shot was uninspirational, a last minute effort to beat the deadline
("We need more time!").
Tom Gabriel needs a room with a view.
The shot from D-Mac (oops I forgot, he's Alienjones this week) was
garbage and could be improved with some cropping at the bottom left
and some Photoshop (maybe Photoshop in some real tits). However, I did
learn some new nautical terms from his description.  Only a salty old
semen (oops, that's "seaman") like D-Mac would refer to the "pointed"
end of the boat.  Take a "Bow" you old Sea Cock.

Well, that's my Readers Digest version.  Overall, not as nice a
collection as I'd hoped.  I was a little stuck on this mandate myself,
and hope to produce something better next time.

Just remember the most important photo you'll ever take is .. the next
one.
Ken Nadvornick - 03 May 2008 06:30 GMT
> Ken's pic did nothing for me  .... maybe it was because the
> color was off.  I liked the punchy colors in Doug Jewell's
> pic (Ken, are you listening?).

Heh, heh...  Now exactly how certain are you that it really isn't one-third of
a tri-color separation negative set?  Subtlety *is* the name of the game, you
know.  Maybe you just weren't looking hard enough for those distracting
colors...  ;)

Ken
Ken Nadvornick - 03 May 2008 06:49 GMT
> Now exactly how certain are you that it really isn't one-third
> of a tri-color separation negative set?

P.S.  There *is* a way to tell...

Ken
Annika1980 - 03 May 2008 22:37 GMT
On May 3, 1:30 am, "Ken Nadvornick" <register.nad...@verizon.net>
wrote:
> > Ken's pic did nothing for me  .... maybe it was because the
> > color was off.  I liked the punchy colors in Doug Jewell's
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> know.  Maybe you just weren't looking hard enough for those distracting
> colors...  ;)

We know we can always count on you for technical excellence and a
display of mastery of your craft.  I also enjoy reading your detailed
notes.
=====================

Fence line along the West Snoqualmie Valley Road
Snohomish County, Washington, USA
7:03pm, Thursday, April 17, 2008
Dark, heavy overcast skies, intermittent rain.
Just finished dinner.  Had the fish.  Undercooked.

Ilford FP4+ B&W 120 roll film at ASA 160
Developed in Kodak D-76d (1+1) for 16 min at 68F/20C Split-printed on
Ilford Multigrade IV RC 8x10 glossy paper Digitized on HP 6200C
flatbed scanner, 680x680x24bpp/100 dpi Post-processed using GIMP 2.4
under Window 2000.
New computer chair purchased at Office Depot.
Room lighting 5450°, room temperature 71.4° F.
Had to pee.
Ken Nadvornick - 04 May 2008 04:14 GMT
> We know we can always count on you for technical
> excellence and a display of mastery of your craft.

Yoda said you either "Do, or do not.  There is no try."

> Had to pee.

And you also do realize, of course, that it *is* possible to develop film
using...

Ken
That Rich - 04 May 2008 04:24 GMT
>And you also do realize, of course, that it *is* possible to develop film
>using...

And poop... as Bragika has proven many times.

RP©
Wilba - 03 May 2008 06:43 GMT
Let's see what we got ...

Tully (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458896):

I like the way that the viewer has a POV on the dog, but more so that the
dog seems to have a POV of the photographer - Is he dangerous? Am I in
trouble? Should I growl or run away? I don't know what's going through the
dog's mind, and that makes it an interesting image.

I would like to see this scene shot from a little lower (so the dog's head
isn't bang in the middle of the frame), and including her (?) forepaws so
she's not chopped off at the shins.

Alienjones (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458898):

She does have a couple of interesting points to view. (Sorry, couldn't
resist!) I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to connect with the
photographer's POV or the figurehead's POV. The flat light and clutter
detracts for me. I'd like to see her from closer in and lower down to see
what she looks like "in the net", but that would probably lose the context
and connection with the theme.

Bowser (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900):

Cool idea. Enough blur to know that you're in motion. I like the way the
screen forms a frame within the frame, focussing my attention on the rider's
view down the road into the distance.

Tom Gabriel (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458902):

I like the idea but I'm distracted by the branch and the bulk of the window
frame on the right. I wonder if it would work better for me cropped down to
focus on the people getting on the bus? I imagine that might have a more
voyeristic feel to it - an idea that works for me as a view-through-a-window
thing.

Ken Nadvornick (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458905):

I imagine a hillbilly sitting in the chair with a shotgun across his knees,
ranting xenophobically, and defending his property against varmints and
forners.

Wilba (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907):

The Man With No Legs. Easy to work out how it was done. The idea was to get
a portrait from an unusual POV. Nasty green tint on the arm - probably could
have done something about that.

Paul Furman (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458909):

I needed to read the comments to get what the photo is about, and how it
relates to POV.

Rich Pos (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458911):

POV from a barstool? POV about martinis? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to
make of this in relation to the topic. I want to be able to see all of his
face, but that thought also makes me think I've missed the point somehow.

Doug Jewell (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458913):

I like the unfolding ambiguity - is this about the shape of the skate ramp
... tick tock tick tock ... or is it about the POV of the "artists"? What
would make you want to paint weird skulls all over the place?

Good technical work - deep blue sky with white clouds, vivid colours, detail
in the shadows, disciplined framing, etc.

Walter Banks (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458915):

I'm not sure what to think of this - it doesn't say anything to me. Unless
that's a face carved into the rock ...? Is that a plane taking off?

Jim Kramer (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458918):

To be engaged by this image, I have to mentally crop a sixth of the width
from the left, so that the bright eye isn't in the centre of the frame. I
take full responsibility for my aversion to "bullseye" compositions. :-)

Helen Silverberg (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459156):

Nicely put together. The image tells a story by itself, and the text adds
value. Makes me wonder what is her POV (opinion) of the granddaughter, and
vice versa.

She was your subject in http://www.pbase.com/shootin/loss?

Bret Douglas (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459451):

Nicely ambigous. Could be a building, a vent, rack, sieve, grate ...? What
is it? :-)

It's hard for me to pick a winner this time. I like Bowser's idea - it works
well for me as a response to the challenge, but the one that connects the
most for me is Tully's dog. Goodonya everyone.
Walter Banks - 03 May 2008 11:47 GMT
> Let's see what we got ...
>
> Walter Banks (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458915):
>
> I'm not sure what to think of this - it doesn't say anything to me. Unless
> that's a face carved into the rock ...? Is that a plane taking off?

The face will change again in a year or so, its natural. This was an
idea that didn't work. The birds are Turkey Vultures catching
some lift. The cliffs here are about 200 feet tall.  I wanted to
tie it to an unseen earlier SI mandate. (At the time not knowing just
how much overhang when I was on top of the first outcrop taking
unseen)

Thanks for the comments.

w..
Jufi - 04 May 2008 22:19 GMT
> Let's see what we got ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> screen forms a frame within the frame, focussing my attention on the
> rider's view down the road into the distance.

I thought the speedo reading might also give a clue as to true motion, but
it seems it's too low key.

What amazes me is how the fisheye lens makes the windshield look like a
"chopped" shield. It's a full-size 2-up shield.
Wilba - 04 May 2008 23:33 GMT
>> Bowser (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900):
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I thought the speedo reading might also give a clue as to true motion, but
> it seems it's too low key.

Just 'cos we didn't comment on it doesn't mean we didn't see it. :-)
Jufi - 05 May 2008 18:33 GMT
>>> Bowser (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900):
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Just 'cos we didn't comment on it doesn't mean we didn't see it. :-)

Sigh, shoulda known.

I think I'll sell all my lenses and just keep the fisheye. The only time I
get good reviews is when I shoot the pic with the fisheye. If I need a
telephoto, I'll just crop.

:-)
Wilba - 06 May 2008 03:22 GMT
>>>> Bowser (http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900):
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> :-)

The day you start shooting to please the critics is the day you lose your
artistic integrity! :-D
Atheist Chaplain - 03 May 2008 09:07 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

Some nice photos there, I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to put my entry in
on time, My Dad was in Sydney having some major surgery to his Kidneys. so I
was sort of distracted. I will have to think about something to do with the
Tie-In :-)

Signature

God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?

Atheist Chaplain - 03 May 2008 14:01 GMT
>> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
> Some nice photos there, I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to put my entry in
> on time, My Dad was in Sydney having some major surgery to his Kidneys. so
> I was sort of distracted. I will have to think about something to do with
> the Tie-In :-)

I suppose I should show you what I had started (remember that it was taken
with a P&S HP Photsmart 607 so its not going to be anywhere near the quality
of others here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27036395@N00/2461648022/

Signature

God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?

Doug Jewell - 03 May 2008 22:32 GMT
>>> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the quality of others here)
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27036395@N00/2461648022/

Nothing wrong with that - you don't need to have the latest
and greatest to submit to SI - looking at this round, there
are p&s's, film cameras, entry level DSLR's through to high
end DSLR's. I would have to say that this round
particularly, there doesn't seem to be any correlation
between the quality of the camera and the quality of the
submission.
Doug Jewell - 03 May 2008 10:32 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov 

Ok here goes for my comments about the shootin.

Tully http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458896
I like how it is taken from the eye-height of the dog with
the fisheye. Almost puts the viewer in the position of
another dog - am I about to get sniffed? I would kinda like
to see the dog's feet in the shot tho.

AlienJones http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458898
The shot seems cluttered & disorganised to me. I'd like to
see a tighter framing onto the figurehead or perhaps a
different angle to greater convey the feel of Point of View.
Sorry, this shot just doesn't do it for me.

Bowser http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900
Very cool, and one of the best in the set for fitting the
mandate, with the photo clearly showing the view that the
rider would be seeing. Well executed, nice and sharp & well
composed. Minus points cos you didn't take it though - what,
can't you ride and photograph at the same time? :P

Tom Gabriel http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458902
At first glance I went ho-hum, but the more I look at this
shot the more I like it. It breaks many laws of composure eg
the frame cut in 2 with that branch, the other tree blocking
the billboard etc, but without those flaws, the image would
be dishonest. That's the whole point - this is the view out
your window. I like the cool colouring - adds to the photo
looking cold and dull, nothing spectacular, typical view
from any window in any city in any country. The more I see
it the more I like it. Well done.

Ken Nadvornick http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458905
I dunno what to say here. Technically well done, I'm just
not sure of the subject. Maybe it needs a slack-jawed yokel
on the chair!

Wilba http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907
Well it's a different Point of View.

Paul Furman http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458909
Lucky you if that's your POV. Well done at getting an
acceptable shot out of the plane window - every american
aircraft I've seen had such a thick layer of crud on the
windows you'd have a hard time telling the difference
between the rocky mountains and the nevada desert.

Rich Pos http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458911
Nice shot from the POV of someone sitting at the bar. I'm
guessing that your roll of film has shots taken at
increasingly low angles? ;-)

Doug Jewell http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458913
I'm surprised I seem to be the only one who interpreted POV
to mean "opinion" rather than "vision". I didn't even think
of the visual side of "Point of View".  A "point of view" is
an opinion to me, and that is what I tried to portray here -
Whether you call this stuff graffiti or art depends entirely
on your point of view. As Wilba pointed out, the artists
would seem to have some odd points of view as well.

Walter Banks http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458915
It's potentially a nice landscape shot, although it does
look a bit soft to me (intentional?). Not quite sure how
well it fits the mandate though - perhaps if there was some
sort of foreground to put things in perspective?

Jim Kramer http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458918
Suddenly the Peter Gabriel song "Games without Frontiers"
comes to mind - or specifically the lyric "If Looks Could
Kill they Probably Will". That cat has an attitude, and if
you are small and that's currently what you are seeing, you
are about to be in a whole world of pain. I like.

Helen Silverburg http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459156
Without doubt, the standout shot in this set to my mind.
Even without the story, this shot stands out, meets the
mandate perfectly, and is a very powerful piece.
Exceptionally well done. Surely this shot will dispel any
ideas that Helen==Bret.

Bret Douglas http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459451
uhm... yeah...  what is it?...
Interesting texture, lighting & reflections, but I would
have liked just a bit more of a visual clue as to what it
actually is. As an abstract texture shot, I think it would
work better if it was symmetrical. I'm going to take a stab
in the dark - an escalator?
That Rich - 03 May 2008 11:23 GMT
>> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov 

Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.

Cheers,

RP©
Wilba - 03 May 2008 16:57 GMT
> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.

No worries. Have a go yourself! :-)
That Rich - 03 May 2008 18:11 GMT
>> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.
>
>No worries. Have a go yourself! :-)

Much as I'd like I really can't... really... I don't know the first
thing about photography. I only take photos to see how things look
when photographed.

RP©
Doug Jewell - 03 May 2008 22:35 GMT
>>> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.
>> No worries. Have a go yourself! :-)
>
> Much as I'd like I really can't... really... I don't know the first
> thing about photography. I only take photos to see how things look
> when photographed.
I don't think you need to know about photography to comment.
If you can look at an image and go "that looks ok" or go
"hmmm i think that would be better if..." then you are more
than capable of reviewing the SI. In fact the opinions of a
non-photographer type are probably more valuable. It's easy
to get caught up in rules like thirds, balance, etc, and
forget that the objective is to make a nice picture.
Generally a nice picture abides by composition rules, but
not always.
Please give it a go :)

> RP©
That Rich - 04 May 2008 01:31 GMT
>>>> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.
>>> No worries. Have a go yourself! :-)
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>not always.
>Please give it a go :)
William Graham - 04 May 2008 20:58 GMT
On Sat, 3 May 2008 23:57:16 +0800, "Wilba"
>>> <usenet@CUTTHISimago.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> Much as I'd like I really can't... really... I don't know the first
>>> thing about photography. I only take photos to see how things look
>>> when photographed.

I think that's why everyone takes photos.....To see how things look when
photographed......
That Rich - 04 May 2008 01:37 GMT
>>>> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.
>>> No worries. Have a go yourself! :-)
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>not always.
>Please give it a go :)

OOps.

Meant to write this.  (I feel so shamed).

Believe me when I say I am not competent enough to comment.
Essentially, I turn dials on the camera until the little needle is
half way between the + and - , then push the doo-hickey on top.

RP©
Wilba - 04 May 2008 06:50 GMT
>>> Thanks to Wilba and Doug for their comments.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> thing about photography. I only take photos to see how things
> look when photographed.

You don't have to know anything about photography - just say how things look
in the photographs. :-)
Walter Banks - 03 May 2008 11:39 GMT
> > http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> well it fits the mandate though - perhaps if there was some
> sort of foreground to put things in perspective?

Comments are well taken. This was an idea that didn't work. The
first outcrop was the scene for an unseen shot in an earlier SI
I think you are right that some forground would put this shot
in perspective. At the time I avoided the foreground because I
thought  it would make the image too busy.

Many thanks for the comments.

w..
Helen - 03 May 2008 14:54 GMT
> >http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
> work better if it was symmetrical. I'm going to take a stab
> in the dark - an escalator?

I am so pleased and happy with the turn-out.  Some great technical
excellence and creative work.  Thanks for the great comments Bret,
Troy and Wilba on my entry.  I am truly humbled.
Helen
Wilba - 03 May 2008 17:01 GMT
> I am so pleased and happy with the turn-out.  Some great technical
> excellence and creative work.  Thanks for the great comments Bret,
> Troy and Wilba on my entry.  I am truly humbled.

You're very welcome. Your contributions are always remarkable and very
expressive of humanity. Keep doing it! :-)
Paul Furman - 03 May 2008 22:44 GMT
> Paul Furman http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458909
> Lucky you if that's your POV. Well done at getting an acceptable shot
> out of the plane window - every american aircraft I've seen had such a
> thick layer of crud on the windows you'd have a hard time telling the
> difference between the rocky mountains and the nevada desert.

Thanks for commenting. My trick is to use a very fast lens wide open so
the crud in the foreground goes out of focus and a 1/5000 sec pretty
much eliminates the need for a tripod too :-) I got lucky on the flight
back and rode a new plane with clean windows (freshly washed by the
de-icing spray in Denver) so I was able to shoot at f/11 1/200 second.
Unfortunately I was seated behind the wing so the jets made a soft
streak near the middle of most shots but still not bad:
http://edgehill.net/Southwest/5-1-08-flight/pg4pc23
http://edgehill.net/Southwest/4-25-08-flight/pg1pc2
Jufi - 04 May 2008 20:19 GMT
> Bowser http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900
> Very cool, and one of the best in the set for fitting the mandate, with
> the photo clearly showing the view that the rider would be seeing. Well
> executed, nice and sharp & well composed. Minus points cos you didn't take
> it though - what, can't you ride and photograph at the same time? :P

Geez, a guy can't get a break here unless his name's Anniverberg or
something. NP with the points. They just get xfered to my son so they stay
in the house.

Right back at ya.....

:-)
Helen - 03 May 2008 14:45 GMT
On May 2, 9:54 am, "jimkramer" <Newsread...@NOFSPAMjlkramer.net>
wrote:
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

I am so pleased and happy with the turn-out.  Some great technical
excellence and creative work.  Thanks for the great comments on my
entry.  I am truly humbled.
Helen
Tully Albrecht - 03 May 2008 18:28 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

Tully (mine)
I chose to ignore all text and only comment on my impressions of the
images. Had I included narrative with this submission, I would have
said that Lucy is "harmonizing" with the stereo. Her contribution is
only musical from her point of view.

Alienjones
From the mermaid's POV, life gets interesting only when the ship is in
motion. For me, the subdued colors, flat lighting create a quiescent
mood.

Bowser
Motion blur might have been a cliche here. Nice to see a sense of
motion conveyed by focal length & framing instead.

Tom Gabriel
Although I might wish for something interesting to be happening at the
bus stop, maybe the mundane scene is the point. The mind wants to make
up a story: is the person inside for a reason?

Ken Nadvornick
There was a time when this would have been seen as the "real" America.
Now it's a typical day in Flyover Country, and those who think the
"real" America centers around NY and LA will find this kind of living
irrelevant and unappealing to them. To me, it speaks of integrity,
dignity and truth.

Wilba
Never has a white T-shirt been depicted with greater fidelity. A good
self-portrait, but what's with that expression? The Mona Lisa was
enigmatic, but this is a poker face for the ages.

Paul Furman
Not an easy medium to shoot through (two layers of thick plexiglass).
To think some of us wonder if we're losing quality by leaving a UV
filter on the lens.

Rich Pos
This one has an early Kodachrome look to it. Cheers!

Doug Jewell
The graffiti artists are definitely expressing...something. I like the
composition.

Walter Banks
I don't know about this. It seems as though it wants to say something
about a dramatic vista, but it just looks kind of ordinary.

Jim Kramer
If I believed in the Evil Eye, I'd be very worried by this critter.

Helen Silverberg
More than journalism...lyrical, poetic. Wins hands down (NPI) for
emotional content.

Bret Douglas
A visual puzzle? It held my interest for a long time, because I was
trying to figure out what it is. Looks like a three-panel mirror, but
reflecting what? Shelves full of video tapes?

Signature

"Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know."

That Rich - 03 May 2008 19:38 GMT
>Rich Pos
>This one has an early Kodachrome look to it. Cheers!

Agfa Optima negative film with (purposely) under exposed off camera
flash.
I think I would have liked the result better had my wife been about
two feet taller (she was holding the flash high as she could).

Thanks for your comments.

RP©
-
Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.

    - Frank L. Visco, How to Write Good -
Annika1980 - 03 May 2008 22:28 GMT
> Bret Douglas
> A visual puzzle? It held my interest for a long time, because I was
> trying to figure out what it is. Looks like a three-panel mirror, but
> reflecting what? Shelves full of video tapes?

It is actually an escalator.  I could have shown more of it, but the
mystery would be removed.  The old "what's important is what is not
seen" motif.

I enjoyed reading all your comments.  Very insightful.  Please
continue posting.
Wilba - 04 May 2008 06:48 GMT
> Wilba
> Never has a white T-shirt been depicted with greater fidelity.

Thanks, but it's off-white. :-)

> A good self-portrait, but what's with that expression?

Looking straight up into the sky and concentrating on holding a camera still
on the end of a monopod will do that to you. I'm much prettier in the flesh.

> The Mona Lisa was enigmatic, but this is a poker face for the ages.

I'll take that as a compliment. :-)

Thanks for your comments - I enjoyed reading them.
Tully Albrecht - 04 May 2008 07:13 GMT
>> Wilba
>> Never has a white T-shirt been depicted with greater fidelity.
>
> Thanks, but it's off-white. :-)

Ooops. in that case, let's start a six-week wrangle about white balance.

>> A good self-portrait, but what's with that expression?
>
> Looking straight up into the sky and concentrating on holding a camera
> still on the end of a monopod will do that to you. I'm much prettier in
> the flesh.

I'm not seeing concentration. Concentration involves a certain amount
of tongue-biting. I'm seeing...a muscle cramp, or indigestion, maybe.

>> The Mona Lisa was enigmatic, but this is a poker face for the ages.
>
> I'll take that as a compliment. :-)

It is. Not unlike the ability to stand in formation without scratching an itch.

> Thanks for your comments - I enjoyed reading them.

I enjoyed this Shoot-in. Hope they are all this much fun. BTW, I
promised to post the progress of the Century Plant depicted in the
"Flowers" SI:
http://web.mac.com/olddognewtrick/iWeb/Site/Century_plant.html
Signature

"Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know."

Wilba - 04 May 2008 07:37 GMT
> Wilba said:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Ooops. in that case, let's start a six-week wrangle about white balance.

Goody! ... You go first. :-)

>>> A good self-portrait, but what's with that expression?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I'm not seeing concentration. Concentration involves a certain amount of
> tongue-biting. I'm seeing...a muscle cramp, or indigestion, maybe.

I never bite my tongue when I'm concentrating, I frown. Indigestion, yes,
I'm a sufferer. I was trying to hold the camera steady ... could that give
results like a muscle cramp?

>>> The Mona Lisa was enigmatic, but this is a poker face for the ages.
>>
>> I'll take that as a compliment. :-)
>
> It is. Not unlike the ability to stand in formation without scratching an
> itch.

I do need some of that in my work, but I also find that particular people
consistently read things on my face that aren't there. Maybe I'm ...
enigmatic. :-)

>> Thanks for your comments - I enjoyed reading them.
>
> I enjoyed this Shoot-in. Hope they are all this much fun.

We can make it so.
Jufi - 04 May 2008 22:20 GMT
> Bowser
> Motion blur might have been a cliche here. Nice to see a sense of motion
> conveyed by focal length & framing instead.

that, and the speedo reading...

:-)
Helen - 03 May 2008 22:14 GMT
On May 2, 9:54 am, "jimkramer" <Newsread...@NOFSPAMjlkramer.net>
wrote:
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

Tully:  I love the dog's expression, it says it all.  Getting down on
his level was the way to go, because it did what the mandate asked for
and that was the dog's "point of view".

Alienjones:  It isn't showing the mermaid's point of view, and I think
that's what you were shooting for.

Bowser:  Very cool creative-wise!  This shot met the mandate
perfectly. Excellent work.

Tom Gabriel:  Living in Toronto as well I automatically recognized the
TTC.  How was your couple of days when they went on strike last
weekend?!
Great idea, but I would have gotten more of the window frame in to
give more perspective on where you're looking from.

Ken Nadvornick:  One can always count on Ken for technical
excellence.  Those razor sharp objects, rich tones, with exposure spot
on shows the viewer the photographer's technical expertise.  I agree
with Tully.  This speaks of dignity, truth and integrity.  There is no
need for huge fanfares to have patriotism in the heart.

Wilba:  An interesting point of view from someone or something looking
down at you from either a tree or some place high.  Very sharp, but
it's your eyes that make the whole pic.

Paul Furman:  I agree with Tully in that it's hard to shoot through
thick layers of glass.  But you pulled it off with good results.  Good
point of view from an airplane or eagle's eyes in flight.

Rich Pos:  A customer's point of view at a bar.  Good idea, but I
would have had someone's arm extending out from the foreground,
holding the glass as the bartender was pouring.  It would have really
enhanced the point of view of the customer.

Doug Jewell:  I can see what you're saying, that your point of view is
an "opinion" rather than vision. Beautiful blue sky and puffy white
clouds really make the pic stand out for me.
An interesting interpretation of POV.

Walter Banks:  I think Doug said it right when he suggested some sort
of foreground to suggest point of view.  A potentially great landscape
shot, just a tad soft.

Jim Kramer:  I notice his/her right eye being the sharpest, focus
wise.  Point of View from a cat's eye?  Lovely cat.

Bret:  I thought Bret's submission showed great creativity and
technical merit.  I particularly like how the escalator is the center
of the subject, surrounded by black tones and dark shadows, it gave a
sense of sadness in an impersonal automatic/mechanical world that we
live in.

BTW:  Thanks Tully for your comment on my image.  It's greatly
appreciated.
Helen
Helen
Annika1980 - 03 May 2008 22:31 GMT
> BTW:  Thanks Tully for your comment on my image.  It's greatly
> appreciated.
> Helen

Sometimes the Shootin is the most fun when the critiques are better
than the pics.
Helen - 03 May 2008 22:37 GMT
> > BTW:  Thanks Tully for your comment on my image.  It's greatly
> > appreciated.
> > Helen
>
> Sometimes the Shootin is the most fun when the critiques are better
> than the pics.

Speaking personally, I concur that Tully's critique on my image was
better than the pic itself.
Helen
Walter Banks - 03 May 2008 23:35 GMT
> On May 2, 9:54 am, "jimkramer" <Newsread...@NOFSPAMjlkramer.net>
> wrote:
> > http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

> Walter Banks:  I think Doug said it right when he suggested some sort
> of foreground to suggest point of view.  A potentially great landscape
> shot, just a tad soft.

I would agree. As a small aside. I am amazed at the amount of erosion that

has happened on the cliffs since I last last took pictures there.

BTW Helen, nice entry. It is hard to capture emotion like you do.

Many Thanks for the comments.

Walter
Paul Furman - 04 May 2008 01:30 GMT
Could someone reply with Helen's full post please? I've got googlegroups
blocked and there's a few posters I do miss, including Draco. I never
used such a broad bludgeon of a filter before but the reduction in spam
is worth it in this case.

>> On May 2, 9:54 am, "jimkramer" <Newsread...@NOFSPAMjlkramer.net>
>> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Walter
Wilba - 04 May 2008 07:09 GMT
> Could someone reply with Helen's full post please?

Here you go.

Helen wrote:

> Tully:  I love the dog's expression, it says it all.  Getting down on
> his level was the way to go, because it did what the mandate asked
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> BTW:  Thanks Tully for your comment on my image.  It's greatly
> appreciated.
That Rich - 04 May 2008 01:37 GMT
>Rich Pos:  A customer's point of view at a bar.  Good idea, but I
>would have had someone's arm extending out from the foreground,
>holding the glass as the bartender was pouring.  It would have really
>enhanced the point of view of the customer.

Thanks for you comments Helen.

When is the last time you've been in a bar?

RP©
Wilba - 04 May 2008 07:03 GMT
> Wilba:  An interesting point of view from someone or something
> looking down at you from either a tree or some place high.

My camera looking down from the end on a monopod.

> Very sharp, but it's your eyes that make the whole pic.

Thanks very much - who needs more that 4.0 MegaPixels? :-D

I count on you to see our work from (dare I say it) a different point of
view, and I appreciate that.

> Bret:  I thought Bret's submission showed great creativity and
> technical merit.  I particularly like how the escalator is the center
> of the subject, surrounded by black tones and dark shadows,
> it gave a sense of sadness in an impersonal automatic/mechanical
> world that we live in.

That's what I mean. Great comments, thanks.
Paul Furman - 04 May 2008 02:21 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov 

Fisheye dog
Tully http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458896
Caption: "alright, am I looking thoughtful? go ahead & snap now"

Mermaid on boat
AlienJones http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458898
I like the different perspective prompted by something curious. Agreed
the background gets busy but that didn't ruin it for me.

Fisheye motorcyclist
Bowser http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458900
The fisheye works well here.

Bus-stop window
Tom Gabriel http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458902
Gotta love city living. I would have liked a more interesting
(twilight?) timing since this is the routine view.

God bless America, The Ramos
Ken Nadvornick http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458905
This must be Reagan era with the blue all faded :-) At first I'm
thinking this is a Latino family but maybe Jed Ramo, not Juan Ramos :-)

Guy from above
Wilba http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907
Nice pose and POV but the background could have been improved.

Aerial mountains & desert
Paul Furman http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458909
(me) I got some better (150 shots) on the flight back but I just love
looking out airplane windows so I'm glad I got this submitted anyways.

Bartender
Rich Pos http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458911
Next time I want to see the view *through* the martini glass :-)

Doug Jewell http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458913
> I'm surprised I seem to be the only one who interpreted POV to mean "opinion" rather than "vision".
I appreciate your thinking. One the great powers of photography is to
bring us into intimate contact with the unfamiliar.

Cliffs side-view
Walter Banks http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458915
Stumped by the mandate... but I love the scene.

Cat stare-down
Jim Kramer http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458918
Very nice Jim. He would kick that dog's behind in an instant (or at
least believes he could :-)

Helen Silverburg http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459156
You have a gift for this kind of shot Helen.

Bret Douglas http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96459451
uhm... yeah...  what is it?...
Escalator! (took me a while and was pleasantly perplexing).
Helen - 04 May 2008 02:27 GMT
> >http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> uhm... yeah...  what is it?...
> Escalator! (took me a while and was pleasantly perplexing).

For some reason I can't post a response with That Rich.  So I used
your post to reply Paul.  Hope you don't mind:

I don't drink alcohol so I never go into a bar.  But I did go years
ago when the office had a retirement party for one of the bosses.  I
think it was about 8 years ago.
Helen
That Rich - 04 May 2008 02:41 GMT
>For some reason I can't post a response with That Rich.  So I used
>your post to reply Paul.  Hope you don't mind:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>think it was about 8 years ago.
>Helen

Well, I am in control of your Internet...  don't try to make any
adjustments, stay calm and don't grab a glass when a bar keep is
pouring a drink.

RP©
That Rich - 04 May 2008 02:30 GMT
>Bartender
>Rich Pos http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458911
>Next time I want to see the view *through* the martini glass :-)

Currently working on a fiber optic system to shoot through the olive.
So far I've found the gorgonzola stuffed olives are NOT a good
candidate.
Stay tuned and thanks for the comments.

RP©
Walter Banks - 04 May 2008 04:45 GMT
> Cliffs side-view
> Walter Banks http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458915
> Stumped by the mandate... but I love the scene.

It is 5 or 6 miles from my house. For me a few minutes drive and
a hike in of a Km or so. (It is part of the Bruce trail a several
hundred Km hiking trail in Ontario)  I like going in there in the
Spring or Fall no insects or people and great view.

Thanks for the comments, your point is well taken

w..
Wilba - 04 May 2008 07:15 GMT
> Guy from above
> Wilba http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907
> Nice pose and POV but the background could have been improved.

Thanks.

What kind of background do you think would work better?

I could have shot against grass at the time, but I wanted something dark and
gritty, not bland or pretty, that contrasted strongly with the shirt and
skin.
Paul Furman - 04 May 2008 15:49 GMT
>> Guy from above
>> Wilba http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> gritty, not bland or pretty, that contrasted strongly with the shirt and
> skin.

Alright, it does that. Still not sure what that expression is though :-)
Maybe 3 dozen snakes at your feet... or a bunch of rusty metal?
Wilba - 04 May 2008 15:57 GMT
>>> Guy from above
>>> Wilba http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/96458907
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Alright, it does that. Still not sure what that expression is though :-)

It's how I look when I imagine the feedback I'll get here. :-)

> Maybe 3 dozen snakes at your feet... or a bunch of rusty metal?

I'm not sure that snakes have expressions.
jimkramer - 05 May 2008 13:33 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

Thanks to everyone that participated in this round and special thanks to the
people that wrote comments.

Referring to my image:  The EXIF is complete with the exception that I had a
12mm extension tube on to get closer. The intent was an image that mad you
look at the central eye, explore the rest of the image, but then be drawn
back to the eye, you know the cat’s point of viewing. The strong diagonal
line formed by the ear fur, the eye, his nose and the light colored bit of
blanket; the white eyebrow whiskers redirecting your view to the central
eye.  I have to admit is does look a bit more daunting as a 12x18 inch
print, and it is hard to get that to translate to the computer screen.  I
knew full well that this would be a love it or hate it picture.

Annika – I have four cats I do not need another cat.

Wilba – The entire point was an “eye” composition, the rest of the image is
just context and framing. The intent was to engage the eye and little else…

Doug Jewell - He certainly thinks he has attitude.  He also thinks he’s a
dog. He tries to herd the other cats and wants to go out with the other
“dogs.”

Tully – His claws are far more dangerous than anything I’ve see come out of
his eye; He is a great mouser.

Helen – You are far too kind, especially for someone that keeps stealing the
show. :-)

Paul Furman - You pretty much nailed his personality; he used to ride the
dogs when he was smaller.  Somehow I don’t see the current chocolate lab
putting up with that today.

-Jim
Wilba - 06 May 2008 03:20 GMT
> Thanks to everyone that participated in this round and special thanks to
> the people that wrote comments.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 12x18 inch print, and it is hard to get that to translate to the computer
> screen.  I knew full well that this would be a love it or hate it picture.

> Wilba - The entire point was an "eye" composition, the rest of the image
> is just context and framing. The intent was to engage the eye and little
> else.

OK, I missed that. I guess it didn't work for me as intended.
Stuffed Crust - 07 May 2008 13:45 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov 

Blame me for the mandate, folks.  It's sad that I didn't submit anything
(I have got to get me a set of extension tubes).  I'll have to make up
for it in critiques.  (Naturally, the results are posted when I go off
for a camping trip...)

So, given that it was my mandate suggestion, one would think I had a
clue what I had in mind?  Pshaw!  Original thoughts are for wusses!

Tully - Cute Doggy Award! You got down to its level, but I think it
might have worked better had you tilted the camera upwards a tad, or
taken a photo of somoene handing you a bone.  But that would be a
totally different photo.  So ignore me.

Alienjones - Corrupted Youth Award!  One has to wonder how many leagues
that fair maiden has watched slide by as she yearns for freedom.  
Personally I'd loved to have a shot from beneath her, looking upwards,
form the POV of the ocean being cleaved by her mighty um, cleavage.  But
that too would be totally different.  So ignore me.

Bowser - Live Free or Die Award!  If only there was more of a sense of
motion.  And a mermaid on point.  But then you'd probably ignore the
road.  And me.  (This is perhaps the closest to my original idea for the
mandate.)

Tom Gabriel - Downtrodden Masses Award!  You demonstrate that life
really is rather boring, despite what the liberal elite media overlords
that run the shoot-in (and their co-consiprators) want you to think.  
You showed them!  Now take this tinfoil hat and ignore me.

Ken Nadvornik - Color-blind Commie Award!  How dare you give hope to our
enemies by showing our them that our imperialist capitalist system is
fundamentally corrupt and unustainable.  In all seriousness, a bit
of spot color would have really increased the punch here, especially if
the flag is as faded as it appears to be.  IMNSHO, naturally, so ignore
me.

Wilba - You-saved-my-kitty Award!   Or maybe it's the Self-Portrait
#212.4 Award.  I'm up a tree and confused.  So ignore me.

Paul Furman - On Eagles Wings Award!  About to pounce on a pixel-sized
jackrabbit.  Perhaps the cleanest commercial airliner window I've ever
seen.  With such pretty scenery, you'd have to be crazy to not ignore
me.

Rich Pos - The Shaken, not-stirred Award!  I like the lighting and
general feel here.  I can't help but think that a top-down view of the
martini (grasped by a hand clad in fire-engine-red nails) wouldn't have
been cooler, but I've been declared officially un-cool, so my opinions
are ignored anyway.

Doug Jewell - The I-don't-know-anything-about-art Award!  If someone
paid for the um, illustrations, then it's art.  The punchy colors are in
stark contrast with what feels to be a very depressing place.  But since
when have art critics been worthy of not ignoring?

Walter Banks - The where-are-my-glasses Award!  - I can't seem to get a
feel for the depth or even a sense of scale.  It's actually giving me a
bit of a headache to look at it, so I'm going to ignore it.
(I really liked the linked photo though...)

Jim Kramer - The 'mmm, tasty...' Award! - Another image that I think
could have benefitted from a spot of color (this time, in the eyes).  I
just can't get my cats to stay still when I stick a camera near their
faces, so my hat's off to you.  Now if only it had a feather sticking
out of its mouth or something.  But that too would be totally different
so feel free to ignore me.

Helen Silverberg - The 'how does she do it?' Award - Once again, she
manages to punch us in the gut yet feel grateful for her doing it,
stealing the show yet again.  If you ignore me here, you're a heartless
commie bastard.   I'm still in awe.

Bret Douglas - The "We control the horizontal" award - I just can't
figure out the perspective or even what this is, so I ended up cheating.  
And I still don't get it.  Quite an accomplishment.  No color needed
here, unless it's the blood of your enemies, trickling through the slats
as their bodies are shredded further with each step.  But I cheated, so
ignore me.

What, you got this far?  I thought I told you to ignore me?

- Solomon
Signature

Solomon Peachy                      pizza at shaftnet dot org   
Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344

Walter Banks - 07 May 2008 15:12 GMT
> Walter Banks - The where-are-my-glasses Award!  - I can't seem to get a
> feel for the depth or even a sense of scale.  It's actually giving me a
> bit of a headache to look at it, so I'm going to ignore it.
> (I really liked the linked photo though...)

That is what your eyes feel like after staring over the edge of an over hung 200
foot cliff. You and others are correct about the perspective it is missing.

The erosion in the year since I last went there is amazing. the tree that
Ebony was standing by is gone. (She was standing on the first outcrop
in the linked photo)

w..
Stuffed Crust - 07 May 2008 18:53 GMT
> That is what your eyes feel like after staring over the edge of an
> over hung 200 foot cliff. You and others are correct about the
> perspective it is missing.

The whole thing seemed ...blurry; like my eyes couldn't quite focus.

Would a polarizer have helped?  (I remember them helping my dad's desert
photography a lot, back in the day...)

- Solomon
Signature

Solomon Peachy                      pizza at shaftnet dot org   
Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344

Walter Banks - 07 May 2008 20:17 GMT
I was on a cliff in a 30 mph wind. The real problem was I hiked in
and should have brought a tripod The cliffs in the photo were
too far away for hand held. Surprisingly I was out in the wind to get
away from the nearby trees that would have made a much better shot.

There were turkey vultures in the air just below me.
I took several images of them including one looking down over
its shoulder (< 50 feet away). Good shot of the bird looking
at rubble and shoreline. Uninteresting at best.

If it is nice this weekend I am going back in. The scenery is
spectacular even better now with no insects yet and one around.
It is about a 1 Km hike from the nearest road.

w..

> > That is what your eyes feel like after staring over the edge of an
> > over hung 200 foot cliff. You and others are correct about the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344
Paul Furman - 07 May 2008 21:13 GMT
> I was on a cliff in a 30 mph wind.

That can really muddy things up for telephoto shots.

> The real problem was I hiked in
> and should have brought a tripod The cliffs in the photo were
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>> Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
>> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344

Signature

Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

jimkramer - 07 May 2008 15:44 GMT
>> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov

<SNIP>

> Jim Kramer - The 'mmm, tasty...' Award! - Another image that I think
> could have benefitted from a spot of color (this time, in the eyes).  I
> just can't get my cats to stay still when I stick a camera near their
> faces, so my hat's off to you.  Now if only it had a feather sticking
> out of its mouth or something.  But that too would be totally different
> so feel free to ignore me.

OOOWW!!! I got a Tasty! :-)

http://www.jlkramer.net/Pictures/2colorornot.htm

Makes him look kinder. Not my intent. :-)
-Jim
Stuffed Crust - 07 May 2008 18:50 GMT
> http://www.jlkramer.net/Pictures/2colorornot.htm
>
> Makes him look kinder. Not my intent. :-)

Yeah, I agree.  I tried messing with selective desaturation too, but the
kitty's green eyes just aren't menacing enough.

- Solomon
Signature

Solomon Peachy                      pizza at shaftnet dot org   
Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344

That Rich - 07 May 2008 22:24 GMT
Thank you for the critique, Mr. Crust.

RP©
Helen - 07 May 2008 22:44 GMT
> >http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
> Melbourne, FL                          ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.          ICQ: 1318344

LOL...that's Sol for your critique.  It made me smile.
Helen
Wilba - 08 May 2008 11:56 GMT
> Wilba - You-saved-my-kitty Award!

I thought I was saving Jim's kitty.

> Or maybe it's the Self-Portrait #212.4 Award.

Thanks a bunch.

> I'm up a tree and confused.  So ignore me.

Good! OK.

Get stuffed! :-D
Ken Nadvornick - 10 May 2008 18:49 GMT
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/pov
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> increased the punch here, especially if the flag is as faded
> as it appears to be.  IMNSHO, naturally, so ignore me.

Ahh yes...

But you see, all of my photographs come factory-equipped without all of those
annoying colors.

Ken
 
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