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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / March 2008[SI] Shootin suggestion
I guess everyone has noticed the slow death of shootin. Oddly coinciding with the increased theft of images and deliberate attacks on some. I think shootin is a part of the fabric of this group ... At least before it was damaged by those who can't accept that it's OK to disagree with someone, just don't try to humiliate them because you do. I have the feeling the group has a chance now of going into revival mode. Certainly it's changing for the better and hopefully in the process, there will be a place for shootin. Maybe not in it's original form. I know the mere suggestion someone might gain financially from anything to do with photography is a sickening thought to some. I also know there are a few who would cross post to other groups rather than contain their ranting to just one. (people invariably read them all so the exercise is flawed anyway). Having said all this... Is there any support here for the though that obtaining a sponsor and setting up a community web site so those of us left can host our happy snaps in a one central location and provide shootin with it's own home? Sort of make rec.photo.equipment.35mm *THE* group for dedicated photographers who could join shootin without fear of harassment or denigration. I have in mind a few (as in 2 or 3) advertisers or industry sponsors and maybe a token annual payment ($5 or $10) for a hosting account where your photos could be selected for printing by anyone interested and you get the royalty or not at your own option. I don't mind donating initial funding and the software to get it started and enable individuals to manage their own albums. Maybe a include a "shootin" mail account too. I have a healthy co-located server in the US on a very fast backbone. One more site is not going to bother it much. This deal needs a couple of people to manage, organize it and make sure it doesn't get turned into a porn site as well as handle any issues of plagiarism ( www.plagiarism.org ) and copyright misuse. Probably a loose sort of committee to from time to time make decisions (is that possible?) and maybe do a bit of in-country liaison with sponsors or printers. Surely if everyone has a common interest, something like this can be made to work? I've seen a lot of photos posted by subscribers to this group that in their own right are salable. Certainly the owners may not need the money but the thought of knowing someone has thought enough of your picture to buy a print would be a boost to your hobby. Am I asking too much? Expecting too much? Comments should not be cross posted to the universe but if you really must... You'll do it anyway! Douglas >Am I asking too much? Expecting too much? Not at all. An open dialogue is good.. Personally, the shoot-in *was* a great asset to help me learn to be a better photographer and indeed it has improved my ability to meet a deadline (I still shoot film so it is a bit more of a challenge). Another opportunity to play photographer is welcomed :)) The shoot-in has my vote provided everybody sticks to the mandate and doesn't submit archived photographs. After all, shoot-in was originally all about being creative. RP© - 'Some cause happiness wherever they go; others,whenever they go.' - Oscar Wilde - >> Am I asking too much? Expecting too much? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > doesn't submit archived photographs. After all, shoot-in was > originally all about being creative. Hear Hear!! I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels" equipment bashing, rather than photography. The wars that alienjones(d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in that war as everyone else. I am keen to contribute to SI, although the real-world frequently gets in the way. I managed to contribute just as it died. I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting / sponsorship etc. There is nothing wrong with the existing PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of the other free hosting sites. Actually, flickr might be a good place to host - we could create an SI group, then people could submit their own photos to the group without having to require as much effort on the part of an administrator. It would require contributors to join flickr, but that is quite painless, and with 100MB/mth free, no-one would be disadvantaged. Users can maintain their own level of rights then too - if you want to let people download a hi-res version of your image and have open slather with image theft you can. If like most people you only want to let them have access to a relatively low resolution version, to which you retain copyright, you can do that too. The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35. Potentially it could reduce the signal in this group and let the noise take over. Any other suggestions? > RP© > - > 'Some cause happiness wherever they go; others,whenever they go.' > > - Oscar Wilde - > I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more > into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels" > equipment bashing, rather than photography. I'm not sure I entirely agree - I think many groups go through these phases, and there are a number of other reasons: - all (ok, most) of the important questions/topics have been dealt with. This may sound trite, but think back to when you first got involved here - how many questions did you have? How many *now*? How hard is it quickly search on any topic of interest and find the answers? How many resources are now easily available, that weren't there five years ago? - technology has 'settled'. When digital first raised its (initially ugly) head, there was a plethora of issues and problems to be dealt with, and a lot of poor cameras/technology was born, compatibility issues, etc. But now, it seems to me that the 'new age' has pretty much sorted itself out, and the technology is 'there'. Wherever that is. - we've had a *lot* of trolls (eg the p&s idiot, Rita..) - we've had a *lot* of spam recently... >The wars that alienjones (d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but > d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in that war as > everyone else. Exactly. Despite D-Mac's ironic authorship of this, I'll contribute without further comment on that aspect. > I am keen to contribute to SI, > although the real-world frequently gets in the way. Same. I agree with Tony's suggestion. No mandate. Just a challenge - make your image in some way *educational*, so that you can elaborate on what/how/why you did it, and therefore offer enlightenment. Be it black and white filters, novel photoshopping, high/low key, artistic choice, film/dev choice (yes, some of us still do!), or just plain old exposure settings/compensation choices... Another alternative - recycling! I often browse back through the SIs, and gain inspiration by seeing what others have done and think of ways I could contribute.. but it's too late. I frequently find the single word mandates uninspiring, or just boring topics. That's my problem, I know, but I do think seeing a few sample images would be more inspiring, if there must be a topic. Maybe the mandater could go and find 2-3 demonstration images (not necessarily his/hers) and provide links. Or maybe the mandate should be more oriented towards technique, and should involve discussion *beforehand* to pique our interest...(this one is my favorite..) > I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting / > sponsorship etc. I agree. That is just anathema to the concept of usenet, and I would have no part in it. > There is nothing wrong with the existing > PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of > the other free hosting sites. The Flickr suggestion is interesting, but I don't know enough about it to meaningfully add... One last comment... I think it is notable that there are obviously numerous lurkers out there lamenting the demise of the group, and the lack of interesting postings. Well... if you aren't part of the solution... Why not contribute some topics, folks? If you sit there whining about how bad things are, do you think you are helping? > I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more > into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels" > equipment bashing, rather than photography. The wars that Which is silly when there were some good images produced on point and shoots. > alienjones(d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but > d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the other free hosting sites. Actually, flickr might be a > good place to host - we could create an SI group, then What advantage does that offer over pbase? > The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk > of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35. > Potentially it could reduce the signal in this group and let > the noise take over. I have made my killfile much more restrictive. I know there are some good posts lost but overall it has made a huge difference - a lot more signal than noise. Pete  Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk >> I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting / >> sponsorship etc. There is nothing wrong with the existing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What advantage does that offer over pbase? There is nothing wrong with PBase, I'm only suggesting Flickr because it has a slightly different workflow which could encourage better participation. A group can be created, then interested people can join that group. The group has a photo-pool, that members of the group can add to. With Pbase, contributors have to format their image, then email it to an administrator (currently Jim) who has to take the time to upload them etc. With Flickr, you upload to the site yourself (no special formatting needed, flickr takes care of reducing it to a web-only size). Once you have it on your flickr page, you simply link the photo to the Pool(s) that you want it to appear on. An example: my flickr page is www.flickr.com/photos/gdaj one of the groups I am a member of is Main Range National Park. The photo pool for this group is: http://www.flickr.com/groups/428207@N22/pool/ You will notice that in the group pool there are photos from myself and quite a few others. As I said - PBase seems to be working, but I'm just suggesting an alternative that would reduce the admin-load, and potentially make it easier to contribute. I know there are a few contributors who already use flickr. For those that don't, it is free to upload 100MB/month, and very easy to use. For anyone who is using an alias and wants to retain their alias rather than their real name, it is also very simple to create an additional account for that. >> The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk >> of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > posts lost but overall it has made a huge difference - a lot more signal > than noise. I haven't been able to work out how to use filtering in thunderbird. seems to come in phases - the S/N of the group varies from day to day and week to week. > Pete > Personally, the shoot-in *was* a great asset to help me learn to be a > better photographer and indeed it has improved my ability to meet a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > doesn't submit archived photographs. After all, shoot-in was > originally all about being creative. Unfortunately the amount of shooting I do, combined with being being a film photographer and not wanting to drive into town during work lunch hour (it is very hard to do it just in an hour) makes it hard for me to meet the deadlines. If I shoot a roll right now I probably, if colour, would be pushing it to get the scans up online by next weekend. Pete Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk >Unfortunately the amount of shooting I do, combined with being being a film >photographer and not wanting to drive into town during work lunch hour (it >is very hard to do it just in an hour) makes it hard for me to meet the >deadlines. If I shoot a roll right now I probably, if colour, would be >pushing it to get the scans up online by next weekend. Yep. I have the same problems, although when I was regularly contributing to shoot-in it motivated me to take more photographs in order to complete the roll of film as the mandates usually used five to ten frames. It also motivated me to process and scan the negs quicker. What usually happens now is I process the negs then they sit in a drawer what seems like forever before I get around to scanning. Not saying I will definitely participate in a shoot-in revival, but it sounds great at the moment. Cheers, RP© >I have the feeling the group has a chance now of going into revival >mode. Certainly it's changing for the better and hopefully in the >process, there will be a place for shootin. Maybe not in it's original form. Why not have monthly submissions without a "mandate". The mandates were laughable - they were supposed to represent a brief but, being composed by people who had probably never seen a real world brief, let alone worked to one, they were worse than useless. So let people submit images of all kinds of subjects, one per person per month. And why not have a competition where people can vote for their favourite shot? Keep the voting anonymous. Discourage people commenting on the newsgroup on other people's shots, because as in a camera club, that is a guaranteed route to mediocrity. Only those who contribute can vote. Have all the usual SI safeguards so only people who follow the rules can submit, and vote. Votes would accumulate throughout the month thus encouraging early submissions hoping to garner the most votes. If the system works, themed competitions could be added. This would not only refresh the SI, but more important, keep it fresh. > I guess everyone has noticed the slow death of shootin. Oddly coinciding > with the increased theft of images and deliberate attacks on some. Typical bullshit from a queer c.nt. No one took your images you dumb f.ck, you have mental issues. GET SOME HELP before I have to pop around and kick the f.ck out of you. Let Marg take photos of that and post them. > I know the mere suggestion someone might gain financially from anything > to do with photography is a sickening thought to some. Something you have never done you deluded f.cker. Why do you change you name every week? If you were so professional you would stick to the one name. I have tried looking you up in the yellow pages so I can pay you a visit. I want to visit you. I want to kick the f.ck out of you. I want to stand on your throat as you beg for life. As you take your last breath Marg will be sucking the last drop of cum out of my huge penis. -- www.DeathtoDouggie.com Shane White-Springthorpe Leave it to D-Mac to try to figure out a way to make a buck off of someone else's work. If you want to contribute so badly why not send Jim Kramer the $23 for the annual pbase dues? The Shootin was fine while it lasted, but it has clearly run its course. The reasons for its demise are simple .... less people posting to the newsgroups, mandates that are too strict, but mainly a lack of interest. There are many other better places on the net now where you can share your photos or compete in photo challenges. One of the best is http://www.dpchallenge.com/ There is always some great stuff on that site. > Leave it to D-Mac to try to figure out a way to make a buck off of > someone else's work. If you want to contribute so badly why not send [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > One of the best ishttp://www.dpchallenge.com/ > There is always some great stuff on that site. http://members.aol.com/annika1980/honker.jpg > http://members.aol.com/annika1980/honker.jpg http://members.aol.com/annika1980/ohdaddy.jpg |
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