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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / June 2007

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Moving right along - Olympus E410, the first half-decent 4/3 - too late?

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mark.thomas.7@gmail.com - 19 Jun 2007 12:33 GMT
The dpreview take on this camera is quite interesting:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse410/

Its performance in low light is actually rather good - ISO 800 looks
very comparable to the Canon EOS400D.  Slips behind a little at 1600
but looks very similar to the Nikon D40x, which doesn't get much
criticism for noise... Adjustable NR levels is a welcome addition to
SLR's..

And like it or not, Oly do make some very fine lenses, even if
overpriced and a little large given the promises made for the 4/3
format.

One can't help wondering if 4/3 might have been quite healthy had they
managed this camera about 2 years ago.  But now, is it too late?

I hope not.  I've always been mighty fond of the Olympus cameras, even
if they went a bit off course with some (most?) of their cameras over
the last few years. (The marvellous C5050, C5060 and C8080 stand out
as very good prosumers, but they seemed to lose it again with that 550
thing).

Anyway, I apologise for this Rich-ish post, but you'll note I haven't
referred to plastic...
Kinon O'Cann - 19 Jun 2007 13:43 GMT
> The dpreview take on this camera is quite interesting:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> One can't help wondering if 4/3 might have been quite healthy had they
> managed this camera about 2 years ago.  But now, is it too late?

Nope. As either a primary system or a travel system, that's a damned nice
piece of hardware. What Oly needs to introduce is a pro-quality body capable
of keeping up with what sportsshooters and journalists want. If they can
make a 10MP sports/action cam that's smaller and lighter than the
competition, they'll have something.

> I hope not.  I've always been mighty fond of the Olympus cameras, even
> if they went a bit off course with some (most?) of their cameras over
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Anyway, I apologise for this Rich-ish post, but you'll note I haven't
> referred to plastic...
Doug Jewell - 19 Jun 2007 22:21 GMT
I had a bit of a play with one - too small for me, I can't hold the thing
properly. Yet to see the E510, but it should be identical to the E410 but in
a more traditional sized body - I think that would be better for me. But for
me the real killer on this camera is the 1-2 second shutter lag when in live
view mode. Makes live view a complete waste of time. I know someone who
traded in an E330 on an E410, and after a couple of days went back to where
he bought it, and undid the deal. He has fairly small hands and prefered the
feel of the E410, but overall he preferred the image quality and response
time of the E330. I thought the E330 did the live view fairly well (except
for the fact the viewfinder was always a bit darker than it should have
been), and was disappointed to find the 410 so bad at live view.
Interesting to note on dpreview, that although noise is comparable to
400D/D40X at low ISO it is only because of the aggressive noise filtering,
which comes at the expense of detail.
Although those new lenses are small, I don't think the full benefits of 4/3
have been achieved yet. I would expect that the lenses would be faster for
their size. Especially given the small sensor which gives increased DOF. If
the camera had a larger viewfinder image, with a 2.8 kit lens to give extra
light to fill that smaller image, and also 2.8 to allow smaller shallower
dof, I think it would be a much more flexible/usable camera. With the small
sensor, a 14-42/2.8 lens should still be fairly small and compact. Given the
negatives of 4/3 (small viewfinder, increased DOF, more noise), I think the
lenses need to be such that the full benefit of the small frame can be
achieved - ie, small fast lenses.

> The dpreview take on this camera is quite interesting:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Anyway, I apologise for this Rich-ish post, but you'll note I haven't
> referred to plastic...
Ryadia - 20 Jun 2007 06:28 GMT
"Doug Jewell" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:467848e0$0$22434$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-

>> And like it or not, Oly do make some very fine lenses, even if
>> overpriced and a little large given the promises made for the 4/3
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>> Anyway, I apologise for this Rich-ish post, but you'll note I haven't
>> referred to plastic...

Olympus cameras have had a bit of a bashing they really never deserved. I
still have some E300s from when I used them at Santa shoots. You are right
100% about the lenses, Doug. The basic "kit" lenses leave a lot of Canon and
Nikon lenses looking decidely junky.

Until recently I had a 600mm OM lens I used on one of them via an adaptor
ring. Amazing 1200mm equivlant range and crystal clear images. Sure they
have a highlight issue but shooting  up to1 stop under and lifting the
picture post shoot usually cures that. When they eventually release a new
"E" series Pro camera, I'll look closely at them again. The Panasonic
sensors Olympus are starting to use instead of the Kodak ones are a big step
forward. My FZ Panasonic produces some startlingly good images with
definition equal to a 20D.

I can't see the "live view" being much good to traditional photographers.
They might do better concentrating on brighter viewfinders. But Oly lenses
are on their own for quality at the lower end of the scale and most
definitely at least as good as the best German glass at the top end.

Douglas

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Annika1980 - 20 Jun 2007 10:09 GMT
> Until recently I had a 600mm OM lens I used on one of them via an adaptor
> ring. Amazing 1200mm equivlant range and crystal clear images.

Interesting.  In a previous post you wrote this:
"All mirror lenses I've used (Minolta, Sigma and Nikon) produce
absolutely crap images with poor definition and washed out colours."

Google is bullying you, D-Mac.
Doug Jewell - 20 Jun 2007 12:23 GMT
>> Until recently I had a 600mm OM lens I used on one of them via an adaptor
>> ring. Amazing 1200mm equivlant range and crystal clear images.
>
> Interesting.  In a previous post you wrote this:
> "All mirror lenses I've used (Minolta, Sigma and Nikon) produce
> absolutely crap images with poor definition and washed out colours."
Uhm... where did D-Mac say the 600mm lens was a mirror lens?

> Google is bullying you, D-Mac.
Kinon O'Cann - 20 Jun 2007 13:05 GMT
>> Until recently I had a 600mm OM lens I used on one of them via an adaptor
>> ring. Amazing 1200mm equivlant range and crystal clear images.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Google is bullying you, D-Mac.

The 600 isn't a mirror lens, is it?

Best to check before you dump and run.
JD - 21 Jun 2007 03:55 GMT
>>Until recently I had a 600mm OM lens I used on one of them via an adaptor
>>ring. Amazing 1200mm equivlant range and crystal clear images.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Google is bullying you, D-Mac.

The only mirror lens that Olympus produced in the OM mount was a 500mm
F8 lens.  The 400, 600 and 1000 were "normal" lenses.

JD
Alan Browne - 23 Jun 2007 22:09 GMT
> The dpreview take on this camera is quite interesting:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> One can't help wondering if 4/3 might have been quite healthy had they
> managed this camera about 2 years ago.  But now, is it too late?

It's good that they've improved on noise (I'll accept the stipulation)
but as I've said in the past, as sensor pixel densities continue to
climb then they will hit the noise wall soonest.  As you say, they've
not met the compactness promise (OTOH they seem to have not compromised
at all on optical quality either).

4/3 seems to me to be a dead end technology.

BTW: "Adjustable NR levels" really means how much fidelity you're
willing to give up for the _perception_ of less noise.

Cheers,
Alan

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