I recently bought a 15mm full-frame fisheye, mainly for fun and
amusement, but it could be used for some serious wide-angles, also. I
have had thoughts about buying Canon's 24mm tilt-shift lens... someday.
I remember Bret rented one and decided it wasn't worth buying one.
I have been doing some reading and thinking and have started to wonder
if maybe using my 15mm, or any lens, and a program such as Image Align
might be a cheaper and reasonable alternative than the $1100+/- that
the tilt-shift lens would cost. Any thoughts or experiences?
Alan Browne - 27 Dec 2006 22:43 GMT
> I recently bought a 15mm full-frame fisheye, mainly for fun and
> amusement, but it could be used for some serious wide-angles, also. I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> might be a cheaper and reasonable alternative than the $1100+/- that
> the tilt-shift lens would cost. Any thoughts or experiences?
My only thought on this is that as long as you're scaling "inward"
(compressing) to fix a distortion then no artifacts are made. But
anywhere where the distortion fix stretches outward then artifacts are made.
I don't know if for a fisheye that distortion fixes employ both, eg:
parts of the scene compress and other stretch to linearize the image.
If stretching is involved, then the overall image will have to be
downsampled to eliminate any 'stretch marks' in the image.
I received the following bit of spam the other day, maybe it can be of
use to you: http://www.imagetrendsinc.com/ There's a free trial. I have
no idea if it is any good.
Obviously a tilt-shift lens would be best, but in the Canon tilt-shift
lens I believe that also clips part of the image (??).
G'luck!
Alan.

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bmoag - 27 Dec 2006 22:51 GMT
I am increasingly of the Photoshop-fixes-everything persuasion: what the
picture looks like at the end is all that counts, not how you get there.
It is problematic to correct for all the distortion that a fisheye
introduces although there are programs and plug-ins that claim to do so.
However it is not difficult to correct for keystoning of architectural
subjects. Most often correction in more than one direction/dimension is
required but with practice this becomes less difficult.
It is important to include enough background in the original image because
of the cropping that will be necessary.
I do not see how making these corrections in Photoshop is any less valid
than making them with swings and tilts on the film plane.
People have to shed the mentality of how things were done prior to the
availability of digital tools. Swings/tilts, PC lenses are great but not the
only way to accomplish things.
Chris Loffredo - 27 Dec 2006 23:10 GMT
> I am increasingly of the Photoshop-fixes-everything persuasion: what the
> picture looks like at the end is all that counts, not how you get there.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> availability of digital tools. Swings/tilts, PC lenses are great but not the
> only way to accomplish things.
Photoshop can, to a great degree, substitute shifts, but tilts are are
another matter.
What isn't captured in focus in the beginning, can't be "Photoshopped"
afterwards.
TheDave© - 28 Dec 2006 02:40 GMT
> bmoag wrote:
> I am increasingly of the Photoshop-fixes-everything persuasion: what
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the availability of digital tools. Swings/tilts, PC lenses are great
> but not the only way to accomplish things.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm thinking more from a cost
perspective. *If* the same results could be obtained in the computer
with a particular software, then it would be much cheaper than buying
the lens, and I could get at it sooner because I can't afford the lens
right now.
Simon Stanmore - 28 Dec 2006 00:53 GMT
I've never used a fisheye but correct perspective and WA barrel distortion
as a matter of course with Photoshop.
http://www.pbase.com/stanmore/image/72147131/original is a good example. If
I could afford a Canon 24mm TS lens I would get one because it would let me
compose 'perfectly' at capture
--
Simon
>I recently bought a 15mm full-frame fisheye, mainly for fun and
> amusement, but it could be used for some serious wide-angles, also. I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> might be a cheaper and reasonable alternative than the $1100+/- that
> the tilt-shift lens would cost. Any thoughts or experiences?
Annika1980 - 28 Dec 2006 01:26 GMT
> I've never used a fisheye but correct perspective and WA barrel distortion
> as a matter of course with Photoshop.
> http://www.pbase.com/stanmore/image/72147131/original is a good example.
I liked the way you removed the poster as well.
BTW, where ya been lately?
Simon Stanmore - 28 Dec 2006 18:18 GMT
Have been reading and posting Bret just not so much as a few years back when
it was much busier here
--
Simon
>> I've never used a fisheye but correct perspective and WA barrel
>> distortion
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> BTW, where ya been lately?
Alan Browne - 28 Dec 2006 15:53 GMT
> I've never used a fisheye but correct perspective and WA barrel distortion
> as a matter of course with Photoshop.
> http://www.pbase.com/stanmore/image/72147131/original is a good example. If
> I could afford a Canon 24mm TS lens I would get one because it would let me
> compose 'perfectly' at capture
A little cut and paste over the poster as well.
Color corrected or enhanced?

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Simon Stanmore - 28 Dec 2006 18:26 GMT
A cut & paste would've had the wrong perspective. The sign removal and some
of the pavement & wall was done with gradient masked vanishing point cloning
in PS. The colour was corrected for the ambient temperature and enhanced
--
Simon
>> I've never used a fisheye but correct perspective and WA barrel
>> distortion as a matter of course with Photoshop.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Color corrected or enhanced?
Robert Feinman - 28 Dec 2006 14:15 GMT
> I recently bought a 15mm full-frame fisheye, mainly for fun and
> amusement, but it could be used for some serious wide-angles, also. I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> might be a cheaper and reasonable alternative than the $1100+/- that
> the tilt-shift lens would cost. Any thoughts or experiences?
You can fix perspective keystone distortion using Photoshop. I have
some tips on my web site showing several ways to do this.
You can also fix warp distortion as is caused by fisheye and
rotating panorama cameras using the free plugin Panorama Tools.
I show how this is done using cylindrical projections as well, to
correct spherical distortion the steps are the same you just pick
different options within the plugin.
It is also possible to approximate the shift in the plane of sharpness
which a tilting lens can perform. One uses a wide angle lens and tilts
the whole camera to bring the desired plane into focus. This shifts
the image to the edge of the frame. Then one crops out the portion
needed and makes any perspective adjustments. This is not exactly
the same as tilting only the lens and needs more magnification to
get to the same final size, but it is better than nothing.

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Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail: robert.feinman@gmail.com
Richard Polhill - 30 Dec 2006 13:55 GMT
> I recently bought a 15mm full-frame fisheye, mainly for fun and
> amusement, but it could be used for some serious wide-angles, also. I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> might be a cheaper and reasonable alternative than the $1100+/- that
> the tilt-shift lens would cost. Any thoughts or experiences?
I haven't tried it, but I'sd suspect that once you correct the
distortion and then crop the resulting pincushion-shaped image to a
rectangle, you'd get effectively the same picture as a 21 or perhaps
even 24mm corrected lens.
It isn't actually necessary to use a shift lens; all they do is crop the
image circle differently by moving the image centre away from the frame
centre. You can get the same effect by using a high enough resolution
sensor or film and then cropping out the unwanted forground in
photoshop/on the enlarger. Sure you lose some resolution but if you have
plenty to start with, then you might be able to afford it.