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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / December 2006Film is obselete?
Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film or developing film any more. Is there any chance of the price of film skyrocketing and the price of developing film skyrocketing? The guy at the store told me that the only difference now that digital out is that there isn't as much variety different of film available anymore. He told me that film costs the same. Thanks, Andrew > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > out is that there isn't as much variety different of film available > anymore. He told me that film costs the same. People said the camera would make painting obsolete, too. > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > Andrew Yes, film is obsolete. As of midnight, December 31, 2006, all film production, everywhere in the world, will cease. All existing stocks of film must be removed from all retailers' shelves. You will not be able to buy any film, anywhere, at any price. All film processing facilities will close their doors. Film is finished. Don't buy a film camera, as it will turn into a doorstop in just a few weeks' time. >> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Film is finished. Don't buy a film camera, as it will turn into a doorstop > in just a few weeks' time. So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? >>> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >>> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? I'll be glad to properly liberate the film for you and anyone else that needs to rid themselves *(per Jeremy's law) of film stock before 12/31/06. I remain, nothing if not one to help people in need, RP© >>>> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >>>> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that needs to rid themselves *(per Jeremy's law) of film stock before > 12/31/06. Yeah? When you pry it out of my cold, dead fingers! :-P > So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? Save yourself; ebay it off before it's too late..............waddaya got? Bob Hickey >> So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? > Save yourself; ebay it off before it's too late..............waddaya got? > Bob Hickey Not a lot actually. A bunch'a E-6, a few Kodachrome 64 ... including at least one in 110 format (which I expect will stay there forever, since the Pentax Auto-110 Super crapped out and I haven't found anyone who will still process it anyway). I don't keep film in the freezer so much as buy a whole bunch at one time when it's a particularly good buy, and stash most of it in the freezer until I'm ready to shoot it. When I get down to nothin' in the camera bag, some comes out of the fridge and into the bag, some more comes down from the freezer into the fridge ... > So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? That will automatically self destruct as of midnight, December 31, 2006. >>> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >>> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? >> So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? > > That will automatically self destruct as of midnight, December 31, 2006. It will turn into buffalo meat.....Except the Velvia....That will turn into chicken....... Not very likly, and I just won an ebay aution for a Voigtlander Bessamatic which means I've added one more film camera to use. This makes number 4 in my lineup.  SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >> So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? > So what am I supposed to do with all that stuff in the freezer? Eat it, of course. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 It'll be used in my 4 film cameras is what will happen to it. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Eat it, of course. > > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Film is finished. Don't buy a film camera, as it will turn into a doorstop > in just a few weeks' time. That's OK, because in a months time all doorstops will turn back into rolls of film... ;-) > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film > or developing film any more. Is there any chance of the price of film > skyrocketing and the price of developing film skyrocketing? Little or none. > The guy at the store told me that the only difference now that digital > out is that there isn't as much variety different of film available > anymore. He told me that film costs the same. Pretty much. Can't get Kodachrome 25, but there's all sorts of E-6 and C-41 films on the market, and if it's not "Howard Johnson's 21 flavors" any more, still there's more than just plain vanilla. > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > Andrew Walk into any photo shop that (or CVS, Walgreens, Walmart) that has a processing lab and ask them if they still process and print film. Just because one technology becomes popular doesn't mean that another one disappears. Plenty of people still shoot film. There are still many varieties of film left (though you might have to order some special emulsions from a serious photography store (Such as B&H, Adorama, Freestylephoto, etc.), especially print film, slide film may be mor ehard to come by at the super market or mom and pop store levels. While _nobody_ _knows_ the future, there are certainly enough film cameras around and/or being bought (somebodies buying them on ebay/etc.) that there is a built in "audience" for years to come. Whether digital has hit a plateau in sales and/or the dwindling number of people still shooting 35mm (like yours truly and others) has leveled off is another matter. So long as people still shoot the stuff other people will still sell the stuff to them. How high prices will go on film is another matter, but I, unlike others, don't expect it to skyrocket because it (film), despite digital's predominance, still has a large enough audience of buyers, and, at least for general purpose print films (the kind you might pick up at a supermarket or a CVS/Walmart-like chain) I don't see the prices going sky-high because film (at least general print film) is not a specialty item. You can still get 8x10" film and 4x5" film in this digi everything age, with even more popular 35mm I don't see the pricing being a problem, especially in the near 1-5 year future and possibly far beyond that too. 35mm hasn't yet hit the extinction level of the 8-track tape, yet... :-). In this Ipod millenium you can still buy cassette tapes without problems (older/less popular technology), I don't see any problems with being able to find general purpose amature market print films at an affordable price either. Others can and will/are free to differ with me. That's my 2 rolls of film worth of opinions ;-) Thank you everybody - except the guy who tried to trick me! Shame on you! > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > Andrew > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film > or developing film any more. ******************************************************** Many people are saying that digital is going to take over completely. At present I have never seen a digital camera that can take a time exposure of three or four minutes and if one does exist, I have never heard of one that can do it without batteries. If you want to do this with film cameras, old Pentaxes, Nikons, Canons and Minoltas to name a few will do this easily. Then if we are talking medium format, Hasselblads, Mamiyas, Rollei's and a hundred others will do it. Now if you want to go to large format, Wista's, Horseman, Wisner and a bunch will do this. You might say who needs this? Film photographers do. Digital photographers have no need for this. That is why there will be film photography and if there isn't photography, has taken a step backwards. Ric in Wisconsin. >Many people are saying that digital is going to take over completely. At >present I have never seen a digital camera that can take a time exposure of >three or four minutes and if one does exist, Is 15 minutes long enough? <http://www.naturfotograf.com/D200_rev04.html> >I have never heard of one that >can do it without batteries. Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. I have to admit that running out of batteries is a serious risk with digital cameras. But I tend to run out of film with film cameras. :-( SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency None of my cameras have to have a battery to operate the shutter, one has one for a light meter and that's all. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>Many people are saying that digital is going to take over completely. At >>present I have never seen a digital camera that can take a time exposure [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I have to admit that running out of batteries is a serious risk with > digital cameras. But I tend to run out of film with film cameras. :-( > Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. Only Post Modern film cameras _need_ batteries. Modern cameras don't. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com >> Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. > >Only Post Modern film cameras _need_ batteries. Wow, Nikon made its first mostly post-modern film camera in 1978. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency >Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built in light meter, no auto-anything, 100% mechanical. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. > >I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built in >light meter, no auto-anything, 100% mechanical. What's so great about a camera without a built-in light meter? I'd rather take a set of spare batteries then bring a spot meter. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency Who needs a spot meter? I've got two meters which read the whole sean and give me a reading, and no, they make their own power. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html "Philip Homburg" <philip@ue.aioy.eu> wrote in message > What's so great about a camera without a built-in light meter? > I'd rather take a set of spare batteries then bring a spot meter. >Who needs a spot meter? I've got two meters which read the whole sean and >give me a reading, and no, they make their own power. I do. Maybe you don't. But I'm not going to expose a slide using 300mm or longer using just a general reflected light reading from a separate light meter. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency If I use my 70 / 210 zoom and need to meter, I have it on my topcon super d with it's BTL meter which I have on for the metering and then turn off. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>Who needs a spot meter? I've got two meters which read the whole sean and >>give me a reading, and no, they make their own power. > > I do. Maybe you don't. But I'm not going to expose a slide using 300mm > or longer using just a general reflected light reading from a separate > light meter. >If I use my 70 / 210 zoom and need to meter, I have it on my topcon super d >with it's BTL meter which I have on for the metering and then turn off. So instead of just taking an extra set of batteries, you take an extra camera for light meting that also requires batteries? SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency No, you didn't under stand, I have a Topcon Super D that has a 70 to 210 zoom and when I use it I turn on the meter, take a reading with the BTL meter, and then turn OFF the meter after I have set the lens to the meter seting. My other cameras have no meters so with them I use my hand held meters. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>If I use my 70 / 210 zoom and need to meter, I have it on my topcon super >>d >>with it's BTL meter which I have on for the metering and then turn off. > > So instead of just taking an extra set of batteries, you take an > extra camera for light meting that also requires batteries? >No, you didn't under stand, I have a Topcon Super D that has a 70 to 210 >zoom and when I use it I turn on the meter, take a reading with the BTL >meter, and then turn OFF the meter after I have set the lens to the meter >seting. My other cameras have no meters so with them I use my hand held >meters. I guess I'm missing the point. My cameras have batteries because I want TTL lightmeting, and with slides, a spot meter. Having a separate light meter strikes me as a bad trade off compared to spare set of batteries. And then you use different cameras depending on the focal length, which seems extremely odd. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency Right now I have 3 camers, 2 of which have no light meters at all, and I use handheld meters with them, IF I want to take a reading at all. And with the old Exa I did shot slide film and I took no readings at all and used a 135mm lens. I also shot a roll of print film when I got the 70 to 210 zoom with my Topcom to test the lens and I used the camer's light meter. But many times I've not used the meter at all and still gotten good photos with the lens, be they tele's or 50's. Because over the years I have learned to judge the seting to use with what ever film/lens I was using and still get good photos, be it be slide or print film. in years past. Most of the time I've used print film now a days, so I've not needed the use of the miter a lot as I live out in the desert and I know the settings I need to use, what ever lens or film speed I'm using. I have not only the Exa, but an older Exacta, and the Topcon. I'll have a cmera that has a old stype meter in a short time and only with a normal lens, and I'll shot a roll of print film to test it out. Later On I'll get a roll of slide film and do it too. The main thin is out here, I'll stil basiy know what seeting to use out here in the desert, so no meter needed. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>No, you didn't under stand, I have a Topcon Super D that has a 70 to 210 >>zoom and when I use it I turn on the meter, take a reading with the BTL [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And then you use different cameras depending on the focal length, > which seems extremely odd. > I guess I'm missing the point. My cameras have batteries because I > want TTL lightmeting, and with slides, a spot meter. Philip, may I interject a question? Specifically a spot meter for slide film other than the camera's meter, why is that, as a choice of yours? Signature}<)))*> Giant_Alex cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ >> I guess I'm missing the point. My cameras have batteries because I >> want TTL lightmeting, and with slides, a spot meter. > >Philip, may I interject a question? Specifically a spot meter for slide film >other than the camera's meter, why is that, as a choice of yours? No, I want a spot meter in the camera. I don't know about other brands, but as far I know, Nikon never made a mechnical camera that includes a spot meter. So you have to use a battery dependent camera. Not that I mind taking extra batteries. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency > I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built > in > light meter, no auto-anything, 100% mechanical. Unless you intend to shoot on a deserted island, or in sub-arctic climate, how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and an electronic shutter? I now own only one camera with a battery in it and that's my Topcon Super D, but guess what? I shot with my handheld light meters most of the time. That's how this 30 year old meuc battery has lasted. The rest of my cameras don't use batterys in any form and I've been able to use them not only in the 100F day of the summer in the High mojave Desert, but during winter when it's down to 15F I've used them just fine there too. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Unless you intend to shoot on a deserted island, or in sub-arctic climate, > how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and > an electronic shutter? >I now own only one camera with a battery in it and that's my Topcon Super >D, but guess what? I shot with my handheld light meters most of the time. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> climate, how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a >> meter and an electronic shutter? A Topcon??? Hasn't anybody on this NG told you that film is dead yet? Someone tells that to me at least once per day . . . Someone ever stand in front of me and say that to me, I'll just reach down, pull up one of my 4 film cameras and fire a flash off in their face Without taking a photo. My freeze has almost 100+ rolls of film in it just awaiting to be shot. And have you ever looked at ebay? I've seen plenty of film being auctioned off there. I once remember reading a school book in Pampa, Tx that said man would NEVER live to go fast enough to reach orbit. At that same time John Glen was in Orbit, I told the teached their book was full of BS. Yep, I now own the following: Topcon Super D 1968 Exa 1954 Exacta model 1 1930 Voigtlander Bessamatic early 1960's SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > A Topcon??? > > Hasn't anybody on this NG told you that film is dead yet? Someone tells > that to me at least once per day . . . >> I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built >> in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and an >electronic shutter? If you want to expose 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film, it's not exactly uncommon... SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >>> I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built >>> in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you want to expose 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film, it's not exactly > uncommon... So where can I get one of them new fangled 35mm cameras that exposes 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film? It'd sure be a lot more convenient than luggin' my 4x5 cameras over hill and dale. > So where can I get one of them new fangled 35mm cameras that exposes > 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film? http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/filmbacks/index2 .htm#SpeedMagny > It'd sure be a lot more convenient than luggin' my 4x5 cameras over hill > and dale. Not really. SignatureMatthew Winn [If replying by mail remove the "r" from "urk"] >> So where can I get one of them new fangled 35mm cameras that exposes >> 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film? > > http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/filmbacks/index2 .htm#SpeedMagny Woah!!! Rube Goldberg would be proud! : >> I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built : >> in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : >how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and an : >electronic shutter? : If you want to expose 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film, it's not exactly : uncommon... Although it's possible for an LF camera to use an electronic shutter I've never seen an electronic shutter for an LF camera. Same goes with light meters. Signature------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you Floyd L. Davidson <floyd@apaflo.com> wrote: : "jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> wrote: : >"David Starr" <davestarr@sbcglobal.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : >how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and an : >electronic shutter? : If you want to expose 4x5 or 8x10 sheet film, it's not exactly : uncommon... Although it's possible for an LF camera to use an electronic shutter I've never seen an electronic shutter for an LF camera. Same goes with light meters. SignatureTry this http://cgi.ebay.com/Vincent-Associates-Uniblitz-225-Electronic-Shutter-CS25_W0QQ itemZ250052191936QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3319QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you > Although it's possible for an LF camera to use an electronic shutter > I've never seen an electronic shutter for an LF camera. Same goes > with light meters. Sinar makes/made both: electronic digital auto-aperature shutters and ttl-exposure meters - a wand with a photocell that is inserted into the back and moved to the spot to be metered. Lenses need to be in special mounts/lensboards to couple to the shutter. The shutter is behind the lens like a Packard shutter. The lens aperture mechanism is spring-loaded like it is on an SLR. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com >> I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built >> in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >how is a fully mechanical camera more valuable than one with a meter and an >electronic shutter? The OP said modern cameras don't work without batteries. I said I have one that does. I never said it was more valuable. BUT - if a specialized battery a camera needs is discontinued......... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >BUT - if a specialized battery a >camera needs is discontinued......... Then somebody starts making adapters (like for replacing mercury cells). SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency >>Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. > >I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built in >light meter, no auto-anything, 100% mechanical. Certainly! But you still use batteries in other various accessories that are virtually *required* to use said camera. A light meter, for instance... SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com Not realy, he could pick up a light meter that powers intself from the very light it's reading, that's how my two work. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>>Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are virtually *required* to use said camera. A light meter, for > instance... >>> Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. >> I have a 2 year old film camera that does not use any batteries. No built in >> light meter, no auto-anything, 100% mechanical. > > Certainly! But you still use batteries in other various accessories that > are virtually *required* to use said camera. A light meter, for instance... One problem though. The only cameras I have that use the same battery as the light meter are digital. >>>Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Certainly! But you still use batteries in other various accessories that >are virtually *required* to use said camera. A light meter, for instance... Light meters are not *required* at all. Sunny 16 rule. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Light meters are not *required* at all. Sunny 16 rule. Sunny 16 even at dusk and dawn. Wow, where is that place? SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency >>Light meters are not *required* at all. Sunny 16 rule. > > Sunny 16 even at dusk and dawn. Wow, where is that place? On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark side region....... > >>Light meters are not *required* at all. Sunny 16 rule. > > > > Sunny 16 even at dusk and dawn. Wow, where is that place? > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > side that faces the sun, SNIP Wouldn't that be the Sunny f 1600? Fahrenheit rule then? ;-) LOL > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark > side region....... Just for the fun of it, what would be a usable aperture for ISO100 film on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into astronomy hazard a guess? With a daytime temp hot enough to melt LEAD, I'd say you'd have to have a fully Nig cooled camera and use even slower film at the fastest speed. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into > astronomy hazard a guess? > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into > astronomy hazard a guess? Just use sunny 100 and you should be about right. Scott > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into > astronomy hazard a guess? Mean distance Sun to Earth 149,600 Km Mean distance Sun to Mercury 57,910 Km Intensity of sunlight on Earth set as 1 Arbitrary Unit. Intensity of sunlight on Mercury = Intensity of sunlight on Earth * Distance Sun to Earth Squared / Distance sun to Mercury Squared = 1 * 149,600^2 / 57,910^2 = 6.6735 Call it 2 2/3's stops 2. 2/3's stops over F16 is F101.6 So on Mercury it is the Sunny F101.6 rule. It'll be a real bitch to find a lens; maybe a pinhole camera would work? Jim > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > 2. 2/3's stops over F16 is F101.6 I made the same goof, 2 2/3 stops is past f/16 is f/40. > So on Mercury it is the Sunny F101.6 rule. > > It'll be a real bitch to find a lens; maybe a pinhole camera would Not a problem, shoot at f/10, ISO 100 and 1/1000 second. Scott > > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Scott Well that's what I get for playing with silly numbers that make no sense. Mean distance Sun to Earth 98 million miles. = 1au SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Mean distance Sun to Earth 98 million miles. = 1au 93 million. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 >> > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line >> > > > between the [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Well that's what I get for playing with silly numbers that make no > sense. Be sure to bring along some shades and Sun Blocker cream.......... > Mean distance Sun to Earth 149,600 Km What? Hmm ... I get about 1000 times that result. > Mean distance Sun to Mercury 57,910 Km I assume this value is off by a factor of 1000 as well. > Intensity of sunlight on Earth set as 1 Arbitrary Unit. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Jim SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 > > Mean distance Sun to Earth 149,600 Km > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Thomas T. Veldhouse > Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 It is. NASA labels their web tables extraordinarily well, but I should have known better, Oh wait I did and it doesn't make a difference of the than giving Starlord something to whine about. PS. What's a mile? ;-) I didn't wine, I stated what I was thinkong of at the time, and as I was cleaning and repairing the circut brakers and finding out what had tripped them I was off a bit but still far better than what was first given. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> > Mean distance Sun to Earth 149,600 Km >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > PS. What's a mile? ;-) > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Jim Jim: 2 2/3 stops over F16 is F32 2/3 (just shy of F45), not F101.6 which is the temperature when you're running a fever - don't ask me the temperature when you're walking a fever, though... ;-) > > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > the temperature when you're running a fever - don't ask me the > temperature when you're walking a fever, though... ;-) I think I will agree that it is not F101.6. I will ask how to calculate the next 1/3 F stop number given a starting F number? Which I where I seem to have really botched it up. Of couse now I'm questioning my thought process on 6.67 times the intensity is really 2 2/3's stops :-) Thanks, Jim >> > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >> > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Of couse now I'm questioning my thought process on 6.67 times the > intensity is really 2 2/3's stops :-) Log2(6.67) = 2.74 stops SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 > >> > > > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the > >> > > > side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Thomas T. Veldhouse > Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 Thanks, but I woke up in the middle of the night and wondered about the atmospheric loses on Earth. That really may throw a wrench in the works. I think we should all chip in to send who ever started all this to Mercury with a good light meter, maybe even a radio :-) Jim >> > On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between >> > the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jim There you go....Exactly what I had in mind....I would stack some neutral density filters.......:^) >> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into > astronomy hazard a guess? I would use the relative distances from the sun of the two planets, plus the inverse square rule to figure out how much brighter it is on Mercury.....Shouldn't be too hard to do...... >>> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >>> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > inverse square rule to figure out how much brighter it is on > Mercury.....Shouldn't be too hard to do...... Don't forget that there is no atmosphere on Mercury ... so it is MUCH brighter there. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 >> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the dark [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on Mercury during "mid day" on the equator? Can someone more into > astronomy hazard a guess? As Mercury is about a third as far from the sun as we are, the inverse square law would say it would be nine times as bright, and then there's no atmosphere, so you'd have a sunny f/64 or maybe a sunny f/128 rule, or thereabouts ... Colin D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >>> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Colin D. And you could drop the "sunny", since Mercury has no atmosphere, it's always sunny..... >>>> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between the >>>> side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well into the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > And you could drop the "sunny", since Mercury has no atmosphere, it's always > sunny..... hahaha. How about early morning, late evening, or nighttime? Colion D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>>> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between >>>>> the side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Colion D. Yes....But you get those conditions only by traveling.....It always has its same face pointed toward the sun.....It's day is equal to its year....Just as our moon always has its same face pointed toward us......So if you lived somewhere on Mercury that had a sunny f/128 rule, it would always be so at that location. It would never change because of either time or atmospheric conditions..... WONG WRONG WRONG While it is a very very slow rotation, that planet does turn on it's axes at a rate that over a very long time does allow all of the planet's surface to be under full sunlight at some time. It is NOT locked in it's orbit the same as our own moon. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>>>>> On the planet Mercury....Somewhere near the demarcation line between >>>>>> the side that faces the sun, and the dark side.......Probably well [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > it would always be so at that location. It would never change because of > either time or atmospheric conditions..... > WONG WRONG WRONG While it is a very very slow rotation, that planet does > turn on it's axes at a rate that over a very long time does allow all of > the planet's surface to be under full sunlight at some time. > > It is NOT locked in it's orbit the same as our own moon. You are right.....I stand corrected....I never knew that....I always thought it's "day" was equal to it's "year". see: http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/mercury/mercuryday.shtml So I guess the "sunny whatever" rule would need the time of "day" to be applied properly...... And on the 8th of Nov. all us astronomers in the western part of the USA got to watch as the planet crossed the face of the sun, this will happen again as seen from earth in something like 18 years. SignatureThere are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the heavens. The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> WONG WRONG WRONG While it is a very very slow rotation, that planet does >> turn on it's axes at a rate that over a very long time does allow all of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So I guess the "sunny whatever" rule would need the time of "day" to be > applied properly...... >>>>Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Light meters are not *required* at all. Sunny 16 rule. Your horizons will be *severely* limited. SignatureFloyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com >> Many people are saying that digital is going to take over completely. At >> present I have never seen a digital camera that can take a time exposure of >> three or four minutes and if one does exist, > > Is 15 minutes long enough? Barely. I've taken quite a few startrails photographs. 30 minutes is about the bare minimum, preferably 1-2 hours for a good looking photo with nice trails. I notice on that website that the D200 can do very long exposures _if_ you have it connected to the AC adapter. Sorry, but where I like to go for good dark skies, I'd need a 50km extension cable. Nah, I'll stick to my old manual film cameras. > <http://www.naturfotograf.com/D200_rev04.html> > >> I have never heard of one that >> can do it without batteries. > > Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. Who said anything about a modern camera? The wonderful thing about film, is that my 20yo & 40yo bodies are capable of taking a photo that is just as good as a modern camera. They take better photos now than they did when they were new, because modern film is better. > I have to admit that running out of batteries is a serious risk with > digital cameras. But I tend to run out of film with film cameras. :-( I've run out of batteries with my digitals far more frequently than I've run out of film. >I notice on that website that the D200 can do very long >exposures _if_ you have it connected to the AC adapter. Sorry, but where >I like to go for good dark skies, I'd need a 50km extension cable. Nah, >I'll stick to my old manual film cameras. Isn't that what cars are for? >> Modern film cameras don't work without batteries either. >Who said anything about a modern camera? The wonderful thing about film, >is that my 20yo & 40yo bodies are capable of taking a photo that is just >as good as a modern camera. They take better photos now than they did >when they were new, because modern film is better. I decided to upgrade from an F3 to an F4 because I wanted a spotmeter. (And I don't like the viewfinder of the F3 in low light). Anyhow, I want TTL light meting, and the 40 year old bodies that can do that rely on batteries (for the lightmeter) as much as modern cameras. SignatureThat was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make. -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency And lo, Philip Homburg <philip@ue.aioy.eu> emerged from the ether and spake thus: >>Many people are saying that digital is going to take over completely. At >>present I have never seen a digital camera that can take a time exposure of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I have to admit that running out of batteries is a serious risk with > digital cameras. But I tend to run out of film with film cameras. :-( I have read a lot and asked around a lot about this and it seems that even Canon's official stance is "we're not sure what will happen," but I was in Death Valley shooting a long exposure of 20 or 30 minutes with the 5D and the batteries died before it finished. Now, that's MY fault for not tossing in a new set before starting, especially because it was fairly cold out and we all know what the cold does to battery life. Nevertheless, we finished for the night and went back to our little hotel, I tossed in new batteries, and lo, that final exposure had finished and been saved to the card just fine. So I don't know if there are undocumented considerations taken for this situation, but running out of battery life does not *necessarily* mean the end of the world, just don't bet the farm on it. SignatureAaron http://www.fisheyegallery.com http://www.singleservingphoto.com > > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > That brings up a question: do digis figure reciprocity failure, or just stop, or wait till the battery goes dead, or what? Bob Hickey <snip> >> That brings up a question: do digis figure reciprocity > failure, or just stop, or wait till the battery goes dead, or what? > Bob Hickey Reciprocity does not apply to digital cameras, only to film. OTOH, hot pixels and noise with long exposures can be a problem with digitals. Colin D. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is why there will be film photography and if there isn't photography, has > taken a step backwards. Ric in Wisconsin. Pentax *ist-D has a bulb setting and I have taken 3-4 minute exposures using it. It does however require batteries to do so. > Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year > and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > out is that there isn't as much variety different of film available > anymore. He told me that film costs the same. Well you did not put a time frame on when film would skyrocket in price but most likely it will not in the next few years at least, and then should be enough time to get some good use out of the camera. You might want to think about what body to get which an eye that sometime in the future you might get a digital body and it would sure be nice to get one where you could still use the same lenses. If it was me I would look at getting either a Canon or Nikon body as both of these will likely still be major players in the DLSR market for years to come. Scott >> Hi, I am thinking of getting a film SLR camera for Christmas this year >> and I was kind of worried that maybe soon people won't be selling film [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > but most likely it will not in the next few years at least, and then > should be enough time to get some good use out of the camera. Probably ain't gonna' happen. Film manufacture is fairly simple. About the worst that's likely to happen is that all the manufacturing will be done somewhere in the third world. It'll cost a little more to have it shipped to the good ol' USofA ( or insert whatever developed country you happen to live in). > Probably ain't gonna' happen. Film manufacture is fairly simple. About the > worst that's likely to happen is that all the manufacturing will be done > somewhere in the third world. It'll cost a little more to have it shipped > to the good ol' USofA ( or insert whatever developed country you happen to > live in). Kodak owns a stake in Lucky Film Company of the People's Republic of China, and they are already selling Kodak-branded 200 Gold negative film discreetly marked "Made in China." I wouldn't be surprised if Kodak eventually moved all of their film manufacture overseas. It seems quite reasonable that they would want to stop producing it in Rochester due to the higher cost of production here, but it is doubtful that there are any plans to completely withdraw from the film market, at least over the intermediate time horizon. > I wouldn't be surprised if Kodak eventually moved all of their film > manufacture overseas. It seems quite reasonable that they would want to > stop producing it in Rochester due to the higher cost of production here, > but it is doubtful that there are any plans to completely withdraw from the > film market, at least over the intermediate time horizon. Kodak is still making a lot of money off of film sales so I don't see them dropping it in the next few years. But Kodak is also selling a lot less film each year and making a lot less money off of it each year so I do expect to see them make changes to try and get every dollar out of it they can. As sales drop it would seem likely that they would concentrate on the higher films that are selling in higher volume, this may mean that at some time in the not to distant future the selection may get pretty thin. Scott > > I wouldn't be surprised if Kodak eventually moved all of their film >> manufacture overseas. It seems quite reasonable that they would want to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > some time in the not to distant future the selection may get pretty > thin. While I agree with your last paragraph, what information do you have regarding the profitability of any of Kodak's product lines? Are you talking marginal profit, or fully depreciated? I doubt that even the venerable Ron B is privy to that info. ..... SignatureJohn McWilliams |
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