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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / November 2006Nikon USA Official Statement on Gray Market Products
What is "Gray Market"? Generally, a manufacturer works with a single importer who can sell and support their products in a given region. The importer usually has local dealers and distributors who resell the imported products; this is called a "distribution channel". Gray Market refers to merchandise that is imported and sold by methods other than these normal channels. For local safety regulations and certifications (FCC, CE, UL, etc.) and government requirements a manufacturer provides special packaging (manuals in the appropriate language, power cables designed for the local receptacle, etc.) and product engineering designed to meet local codes. Manufacturers also have service and support agreements with the authorized importer. Gray Market items are not designed to be sold in a particular market and cannot be supported by the authorized importer because they may not meet mandatory safety and certification codes. Because these items are not designed for a particular market they may not function properly, or the authorized importer may not be equipped to provide service, support or software. With the opening of international borders and the use of the Internet to sell goods, Gray Market equipment has become extremely common in the photographic and consumer electronics markets. Many different types of equipment are brought into North America for sale without the proper documentation and US consumers do not always know what they are purchasing. Because the resellers' cost is less they can sell Gray Market items for less. Unfortunately this price savings is only on the initial purchase; because service and support is more difficult to obtain it may end up costing the consumer more in the long run. Who is the authorized importer of Nikon Equipment into the USA? Nikon Incorporated USA is the sole authorized importer of Nikon Corporation of Japan for photographic devices. Nikon Inc. USA pays shipping into the USA, import duties and taxes, and provides service, support and downloads for these products. Nikon Inc. USA ensures that the products they import are fully certified and safe for use in the USA market. Nikon Inc. USA cannot provide service, support or downloads for products that have not been imported by Nikon Inc. USA. How do I know if my Nikon product is "Grey Market"? If the deal was just too good to be true, it probably was. One of the first indicators that a piece of Nikon merchandise might be Gray Market is if the price is considerably less than most other resellers. Additionally, a genuine Nikon Inc. USA product will include an Owners' Manual and Warranty Registration card in English. It will also include power cables (if applicable) designed for US style plugs. Any other language on the printed material or wrong cables indicates a Gray Market item. Another indication of a Gray Market product would be photocopied manuals or manually created software CD's. Nikon Inc. USA always provides professionally printed or duplicated materials with genuine products. What does owning a "Grey Market" Nikon product mean to you? Nikon Inc. USA cannot provide any technical support or warranty service on Gray Market items. Additionally Nikon Inc. USA cannot perform any fee-based repair work on Gray Market items. Please do not contact Nikon Inc. USA for help with any Gray Market products. Please contact the reseller or importer of your Gray Market items for warranty and service information as well as software updates and downloads. Does owning a "Grey Market" Nikon product mean I don't have a warranty? No! All Nikon products come with a warranty by the manufacturer. The designated Nikon service center will always repair "in warranty" Nikon products and perform "out of warranty" repairs. If you own a Gray Market product it will need to be returned to the reseller or importer for service. Refer to your reseller or to the warranty cards included with the product for service contact information. <big snip> This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. There is nothing new here. Jim > <big snip> > This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. > There is nothing new here. > Jim I don't think it has been that long, but we won't split hairs over the length of time. Whenever the topic arises on the NG, there are always posters that express outrage over not being able to expect service from companies from which they never even made a purchase. What do they think that they get (or, rather, don't get) when they go the gray market route? > jeremy wrote: > I don't think it has been that long, but we won't split hairs over [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What do they think that they get (or, rather, don't get) when they go > the gray market route? I fully understand Nikon's desire about warranty work, and agree with it 100%, but if the customer is willing to pay for service, then I think Nikon's attitude is unnecessarily punitive and, well... bitchy. What about people who buy used? They may or may not know it's a grey market item when they buy it. Mahy buyers, through no fault of their own, may be new to photography and may not yet be informed enough to know that it's even an issue. Even if it's not grey market, they technically didn't buy it from Nikon to begin with, either. Personally, I've never bought grey market, but if I should ever end up with a grey market piece, it's nice to know that Canon will at least work on it. I ended up going the Canon route for entirely different reasons, but in hindsight, this issue is one of a couple that makes me glad I did. I don't mind paying for service, I just don't want to catch any unnecessary crap over it. > I fully understand Nikon's desire about warranty work, and agree with > it 100%, but if the customer is willing to pay for service, then I > think Nikon's attitude is unnecessarily punitive and, well... bitchy. It is clearly designed to discourage buyers from leaving Nikon USA and going to gray market importers instead. No secret about that. Official importers have the right in the US to thumb their noses at the customers of their competition. Nikon chooses to exercise that right. They may lose a few potential customers, and they have decided that they will take that small loss, rather than risk big losses in making gray market goods more favorable. Anything Nikon does to help gray market buyers will probably hurt Nikon in the long run. The prospect of receiving no support is a powerful incentive for buyers to stick with the genuine importer. > jeremy wrote: > > I fully understand Nikon's desire about warranty work, and agree [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It is clearly designed to discourage buyers from leaving Nikon USA > and going to gray market importers instead. No secret about that. Agreed. > Official importers have the right in the US to thumb their noses at > the customers of their competition. Nikon chooses to exercise that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > run. The prospect of receiving no support is a powerful incentive > for buyers to stick with the genuine importer. Most buyers probably have no clue about the policy, I would imagine. >> jeremy wrote: >> > I fully understand Nikon's desire about warranty work, and agree [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Most buyers probably have no clue about the policy, I would imagine. This is true....I had no clue, and all I did was buy at the lowest possible price, which (of course) was the, "gray market" price. But, in general, I have always liked to not bother with warrantees and deal with independent repair shops whenever I needed service, so I might very well have bought gray market anyway...... > William Graham wrote: > >>> I fully understand Nikon's desire about warranty work, and agree [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > deal with independent repair shops whenever I needed service, so I > might very well have bought gray market anyway...... I had no clue at that time, either. It was just the "luck of the draw", if you will, why I went with Canon instead. I like using small independent shops, too, but if I can get it for free while still under warranty I'll go for free every time. :-) >> <big snip> >> This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > companies from which they never even made a purchase. What do they think > that they get (or, rather, don't get) when they go the gray market route? At one time, a US owned importer could restrict who could or could not the products that they imported. For example, in the 1960s, Bell & Howell was the official importer for Canon, and EPOI was the official importer for Nikon. I don't know if that law is still in effect, but as both importers are now owned by the parent organizations, the issue has gone away. Now, anybody can import either brand at will. In 1968, I bought a Canon FT-QL from a company in Hong Kong at a substantial saving over the NY price. The camera arrived with an international warranty. This meant that getting warranty service required send the camera back to Japan. Thus I have been aware of the policy you cited since 1968. Jim > At one time, a US owned importer could restrict who could or could not the > products that they imported. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > owned by the parent organizations, the issue has gone away. > Now, anybody can import either brand at will. Now the Supreme Court ruling has opened things up a bit. When they gave gray market importers the right to invade what was formerly the exclusive territory of the official importer, they also gave the official importers the legal right to decline to have any dealings with goods that they did not import. The Court tried to strike a balance. There is still the matter of trademark protection. Mamiya USA is the registered trademark holder for cameras badged Mamiya that are imported into the US, and Mamiya has been very aggressive in pressing Customs to keep out any Mamiya cameras and lenses that Mamiya USA did not import. (Honeywell did the same with Pentax equipment back in the 70s). I am uncertain if an individual can even order a Mamiya camera from abroad and have it shipped to him in the US, for personal use, without running the risk that it will be seized by Customs. I understand that Mamiya cameras sell for a substantial premium in the US over prices in other countries. Mamiya USA apparently uses their registered trademark as the basis for seizure. I know of NO gray market importer of Mamiya equipment in this country. > jeremy wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > with goods that they did not import. The Court tried to strike a > balance. I think that's a reasonable legal balance. And I believe a company should have that ability. I just think it's short-sighted on the part of the company. It shuts out otherwise legitimate buyers of used equipment. It may seem like a small loss of business, but pissed off customers and word-of-mouth can grow beyond what is really fair and it could come back to bite them in the butt. > There is still the matter of trademark protection. Mamiya USA is the > registered trademark holder for cameras badged Mamiya that are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > for seizure. I know of NO gray market importer of Mamiya equipment > in this country. Would Mamiya be able to stop a person who is physically in another country from buying their equipment and bringing it back? I would seriously doubt it. When I was in the service, and stationed overseas, I bought alot of stereo equipment at far cheaper prices than the same stuff was selling for here... and the government shipped it back for me for free. >> <big snip> >> This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > companies from which they never even made a purchase. What do they think > that they get (or, rather, don't get) when they go the gray market route? Had I known that there was such a thing as, "gray market" stuff, I would not have gone with the manufacturer I did go with, (Nikon) and would have found another camera system.....Unfortunately, it's too late now, so I just make sure I deal with independent repair facilities, and never buy a Nikon warrantee with anything I purchase. If I buy any item second hand, or on eBay, I automatically assume it will be "gray market" and I will have to get it repaired without the overt help of Nikon USA. Fortunately, most repair shops can order parts under assumed serial numbers, without having to ship the items back to the parts depot first....:^) (And therein lies one of the reasons why I detest the gray market system....It is yet another example of an unenforceable law) It doesn't really prevent anyone from buying gray market, it just makes life a bit more difficult for them. In a way, it's a good thing, because it gives the independent repair shop a little more business, and, because I was a repair person myself most of my working life, I sympathize with those people. > William Graham wrote: > Had I known that there was such a thing as, "gray market" stuff, I > would not have gone with the manufacturer I did go with, (Nikon) and > would have found another camera system..... When I first got back into photography and had to get a new system, I had no idea what was what. I was not up on what was currently good, etc. I was at the mercy of the salesman. I told him what I had done, what types of features I wanted, how I like to "grow into" a camera, and so on, and he steered me toward Canon. They sold Nikon, also, so he did have a choice. Anyway, in hindsight, I'm glad he did. Precisely for this reason, and one other... availability of lenses and accessories when I want/need them. As far as quality and results of my work, I know I would have been fine either way. > Unfortunately, it's too > late now, so I just make sure I deal with independent repair [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > from buying gray market, it just makes life a bit more difficult for > them. And that's exactly it. I know I could get a grey market item fixed somewhere (if I owned one), but I don't need anymore dunb-a.s hassle in my life, and any company that is going to throw hurdles in my way is not a company that I want to deal with. > In a way, it's a good thing, because it gives the independent > repair shop a little more business, and, because I was a repair > person myself most of my working life, I sympathize with those people. >>> <big snip> >>> This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > business, and, because I was a repair person myself most of my working life, > I sympathize with those people. Personally, I don't own any Nikon gear, but I have no problem with their policy. If I was buying Nikon, I would probably buy officially imported items. Many importers consider repair services a cost center and not a way to make money. If they don't want to service grey market items, who cares. And by all means, if you have a good independent repair service available, use it for out of warranty repairs. But don't do it to get even with Nikon. I have never had to supply serial numbers to buy parts for any product, unless serial number was necessary to determine what parts were used sometimes parts do change without model # change). Think Nikon USA is unreasonable. Look at this: http://www.mamiya.com/about.asp?id=6&id2=142 > > <big snip> > > This has been the policy of most importers for well over 40 years. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > companies from which they never even made a purchase. What do they think > that they get (or, rather, don't get) when they go the gray market route? The confusion lies in the fact that we see Nikon USA as Nikon itself, and that confusion is understandable, because they both are and they aren't. > What is "Gray Market"? > Generally, a manufacturer works with a single importer who can sell and [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > service. Refer to your reseller or to the warranty cards included with the > product for service contact information. I object to your use of the term, "designed" in the above. These cameras and lenses were not designed any differently than the others....Only the serial numbers are recorded and given to their repair shops with instructions to not work on selected ones.....Which means, if you buy any of the equipment used, you have absolutely no way of knowing whether it is, "gray market" or not, so you are taking a chance that you might not get any support from Nikon when you need it worked on, repaired, modified, whatever. This effectively destroys the used market for all their stuff forever. Fortunately, there are independent repair shops who will work on anything they think they can fix, and I deal exclusively with good people like this. > I object to your use of the term, "designed" in the above. These cameras > and lenses were not designed any differently than the others....Only the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > anything they think they can fix, and I deal exclusively with good people > like this. Nikon was quite willing to work on my F3. I bought it used, and I have no idea whether it came in here through Nikon USA or somebody else. Jim >> I object to your use of the term, "designed" in the above. These cameras >> and lenses were not designed any differently than the others....Only the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > idea whether it came in here through Nikon USA or somebody else. > Jim Well, either your serial number told them that it was one they imported, or they have changed their policy.....I would like to think it's the latter...... > Nikon Inc. USA cannot provide service, support or downloads for > products that have not been imported by Nikon Inc. USA. Canon USA provides full warranty coverage for grey market items...right up to, and including, their priciest bodies and lenses. This is why B&H sells grey market CANON items for nearly identical prices to the USA-boxed versions. In fact, once you figure in various rebates, the grey version is often a bit MORE expensive!  SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson > Mark2 wrote: > > Nikon Inc. USA cannot provide service, support or downloads for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > prices to the USA-boxed versions. In fact, once you figure in > various rebates, the grey version is often a bit MORE expensive! Even without rebates, the USA items are generally only about $10 more than grey market (for items in the $500-ish range, at least). For $10, I have always opted to go with the USA item, just because I felt it was the right thing to do. Only a $10 difference isn't enough to make a significant difference. Now, if grey market were a 40% discount... > What is "Gray Market"? > Generally, a manufacturer works with a single importer who can sell and <snipped> This model is far outdated and it is long past the time where Nikon should have gone to a more open marketing system, esp. between the US and Canada. > Alan Browne wrote: > > jeremy wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > should have gone to a more open marketing system, esp. between the US > and Canada. ...said the guy who lives in Canada. ;-) Seriously, though, with all the travelling people do these days, I agree. It's an outdated rule that has failed to keep up with the times. Almost like the recording industry reflexivly trying to keep their industry like it was in 1972 when the rest of the world has moved on in terms of methods of distribution. >>Alan Browne wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ...said the guy who lives in Canada. ;-) Considering that the 9000 ED was about $3,300 in Canada and US$1850 at B&H when the difference in the US/CAD $ is less than 15% ... (It's now cheaper at Vistek so I might order it tomorrow for delivery next week). Less hassle and less than $200 more in the end. And Nikon Canada warranty. > Seriously, though, with all the travelling people do these days, I > agree. It's an outdated rule that has failed to keep up with the > times. Almost like the recording industry reflexivly trying to keep > their industry like it was in 1972 when the rest of the world has moved > on in terms of methods of distribution. The music industry is experiencing a strong decline in CD sales with the internet becoming a highway of legitimate and not legitimate distribution... I have no idea how they will fare over time. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. Almost like the recording industry reflexivly trying to keep > > their industry like it was in 1972 when the rest of the world has moved > > on in terms of methods of distribution. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers, > Alan I'm shocked....shocked. Look at the garbage they're putting out. I havn't understood the words to anything in over ten years. They're "Golden Oldies" before they're shipped. Bob Hickey > Seriously, though, with all the travelling people do these days, I > agree. It's an outdated rule that has failed to keep up with the > times. Nikon respects YOUR RIGHT to choose any brand of camera that pleases you. Won't you please respect THEIR RIGHT to decide for themselves whether they should expend time, resources and funds to conduct operations that are not required of them under US law? Customers' only recourse, if they feel slighted, is to give their business to another manufacturer. > jeremy wrote: > > Seriously, though, with all the travelling people do these days, I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Customers' only recourse, if they feel slighted, is to give their > business to another manufacturer. Two points: 1) Cut the noble-sounding crap about them respecting my rights. They don't give a flying f.ck about me or anybody else. They have their policies for their own benefit, not mine or even yours. 2) You haven't read a single word I've written, have you? I have defended their right to do as they are doing. I have merely stated my OPINION that I believe it is short-sighted, and that they might do better by reconsidering, but nowhere have I ever suggested that they should be forced to against their will. >> jeremy wrote: >> > Seriously, though, with all the travelling people do these days, I [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > better by reconsidering, but nowhere have I ever suggested that they > should be forced to against their will. I'm glad that we're in agreement then. > This model is far outdated and it is long past the time where Nikon > should have gone to a more open marketing system, esp. between the US > and Canada. Maybe - from a consumer's point of view. However, Nikon should and does have control of their own policies; and I'm pretty sure they have smart people telling them what policies maximize profits. Frankly, I knew about excluding grey imports from after-warranty service, but didn't think of it as regards used equipment. This concerns me, as I've occasionally bought used lenses and prefer to have the manufacturer do service if needed.. I'd like to see this relaxed, though I certainly wouldn't abandon the brand because of it. > I'm pretty sure they have smart > people telling them what policies maximize profits. Unfortunately accountants are pretty dumb when it comes to customer relations. And the customer relations people are naïfs when it comes to corporate finance. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com > Unfortunately accountants are pretty dumb when it comes > to customer relations. And the customer relations people > are naïfs when it comes to corporate finance. Are you suggesting that your true purpose is to lookout for Nikon's long-term financial well-being? >> What is "Gray Market"? >> Generally, a manufacturer works with a single importer who can sell and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This model is far outdated and it is long past the time where Nikon should > have gone to a more open marketing system, esp. between the US and Canada. They have the legal right to decide their own policy in regard to this matter. That right has been given them by our Supreme Court. Their customers, or potential customers also have the right to decline to favor Nikon with their business. Given that the Court was asked by plaintiffs to completely ban all parallel imports, for very good reasons, this compromise struck a balance that has served Americans well. The element of choice remains in effect, and there is a degree of protection that remains. Gray market importers may conduct their business operations without fear of being put out of business, and official importers may, if they choose, decline to support their competition by not being required to have any contact with the goods that they did not actually import. It is a balance that works well. Nikon obviously rejects your argument that giving support to non-customers represents a business model that is appropriate for their situation. |
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