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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / November 2006The house has fallen & Virginia is looking good to go............
The day the world outside of the United States was waiting for, the American people (enough of them) came to their senses, enough was enough, time out was called on the lies, the hypocrisy, the corruption, the policy failures, the perversions, the indifference, the degeneracy, the bums were kicked out, lets all hope that the numbers are enough to see positive changes from here on. You cannot fool all the people, all the time, thank goodness. > The day the world outside of the United States was waiting for, the > American people (enough of them) came to their senses, enough was enough, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > changes from here on. You cannot fool all the people, all the time, thank > goodness. And you got all that out of a few house and senate seats? Come on, Kewfi, you can't be that easy to please.......:^) >And you got all that out of a few house and senate seats? Come on, Kewfi, >you can't be that easy to please.......:^) A few seats? How about a few dozen, control of the House, mostl likely control of the Senate, plus governorships and state legislatures across the country. It was a sweep, William. Wake up. Dubya is a lame duck, though it may take decades to undo the damage he's done in six horrific years. NH, NY, MA, OH -- all solid blue now, at every level. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com Yeah, one of the only Republican govs to retain his seat was the one who was too "busy" to meet with Bush when Dubya was in his state campaigning, the one who openly criticized the Bush admin over global warming and stem cell research.  SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm Bye Bye Bumsfeld....... good riddance to bad rubbish > The day the world outside of the United States was waiting for, the > American people (enough of them) came to their senses, enough was enough, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > changes from here on. You cannot fool all the people, all the time, thank > goodness. > Bye Bye Bumsfeld....... good riddance to bad rubbish Yes, indeedy do, it's dump your buddy time in Texas. This guy was gone even before he got a chance to cook the votes. Bummer. I expect the shrub to start a trend of firing a "friend" every time he's stuck for an answer. That comes out to about two answers. And I really think this mutt expects to retire quietly to Maine or someplace like the old man. By the time his chickens come home to roost, he'll be lucky to find a sand dune to hide behind. Bob Hickey >> Bye Bye Bumsfeld....... good riddance to bad rubbish > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to > hide behind. Bob Hickey Such vitriolic hatred from a, "Bleeding heart liberal", is very unbecoming.....And disturbing. What has happened in the past 40 years to change you so? >Such vitriolic hatred from a, "Bleeding heart liberal", is very >unbecoming.....And disturbing. What has happened in the past 40 years to >change you so? Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, Ingraham, Drudge, Beck, Miller, O' Reilly, Savage. And you think liberals have a corner on vitriolic hatred? rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >>Such vitriolic hatred from a, "Bleeding heart liberal", is very >>unbecoming.....And disturbing. What has happened in the past 40 years to >>change you so? > > Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, Ingraham, > Drudge, Beck, Miller, O' Reilly, Savage. These are my favorite political thinkers.....they don't, "hate" they just tell it like it is. I have never heard one of them say that they could get inside someones head and know what he is thinking, and know that he acted out of malice to knowingly create wrong. But every democrat I know says that about George Bush. they don't say he made mistakes. They say the man is an arch criminal who knowingly lied for personal gain. - Why do you think that? What is your justification for believing that? A religious nut? - Sure....Every true believer is that....Seriously misinformed? - Perhaps. But an evil maniac? - Come on.....You know that isn't true. And yet, you, and all the other democrats speak of him that way. I have to tell you, it seriously harms your creditability with me. If you disagree with the republican policies, then outling your arguments and put them forth. But don't tell me that bush is an evil liar....It just doesn't wash......I know better than that. > And you think liberals have a corner on > vitriolic hatred? I rather liked Bill Clinton, myself. I sympathized with him when he had that problem with Monika. I have had the same kind of problem...Women have a way of kissing and telling that can really get you in trouble. Clinton should have said, "My private life is not the publics business." and been done with it. Instead he said, "I did not have sex with that woman." That was a mistake. But he was younger and less experienced than I was, so I forgave him. - I never hated him. And, I thought that the republican congress's attempt to impeach him was ludicrous, and I loudly said so at the time. But the terrible, vitriolic hatred that the democrats have for George Bush transcends anything I have seen in my entire 71 years of life. - I can't believe anyone could hate such a simpleton as George Bush so much. I don't believe the man has ever made any decision that wasn't in keeping with the majority of his advisors.....He is really incapable of thinking for himself, and is just barely smart enough to know it, and that's why he always takes the advice of others.......To call him a, "Megalamaniac" is ridiculous....... > rafe b > www.terrapinphoto.com > >>Such vitriolic hatred from a, "Bleeding heart liberal", is very > >>unbecoming.....And disturbing. What has happened in the past 40 years [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > These are my favorite political thinkers..... Always guaranteed good for a laugh Bill. Your use of the word "thinker" in this context, in particular, had me ROFLMHO :-) Peter >> >>Such vitriolic hatred from a, "Bleeding heart liberal", is very >> >>unbecoming.....And disturbing. What has happened in the past 40 years [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in > this context, in particular, had me ROFLMHO Well, I'd love to see you debate with any of them on the TV......I think Hannity could do better with you than he does with even Alan Combs, and he is kinder to Alan than he is with most liberals, because he has to work with him. but intellectually, there is just no contest. I hear many liberals talking down fox news and the conservative point of view all the time, and they are full of cleaver sayings and put downs....But when it comes down to actually discussing the points, and using their logic to show us why we are wrong, then their debate is characterized by a deafening silence......They mutter things like, "Simplistic thinking", and "you don't know all the facts", And, Your data (The NG Atlas of the ME) is incorrect. And, "You are jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions". - IOW, Where's the Beef?! the answer is, there isn't any beef. They are incapable of addressing any particular point, and showing us conservatives exactly where we are wrong about that specific point, and then, going on to another point. I'm sorry, but I am an engineer. If you can prove to me that I have made a mistake, I will be the first one to admit it, and change my opinion to conform with the new information. But if you can't, laughing at Rush, or Mark, or Anne, or Laura just won't cut it. Please tell me specifically why something they routinely say is incorrect, and why it is incorrect. > If you can prove to me that I have made a mistake, I will be the first one to admit it, and change my opinion to conform with the new information. But if you can't, laughing at Rush, or Mark, or Anne, or Laura just won't cut it. Please tell me specifically why something they routinely say is incorrect, and why it is incorrect. That's an easy challenge. Where shall we start? Rush? Does Michael J. Fox ring a bell? BTW, when Rush made his idiotic statements about Fox, how many Repugs demanded an apology for offending everybody with Parkinson's disease? However, when John Kerry cracked wise about the President, they all acted like they'd been shot. >> If you can prove to me that I have made a mistake, I > will be the first one to admit it, and change my opinion to conform [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > BTW, when Rush made his idiotic statements about Fox, how many Repugs > demanded an apology for offending everybody with Parkinson's disease? I didn't hear what rush said, but from what I gathered second hand, he only objected to Fox's using his symptoms for political gain, and fox admitted that he intentionally didn't take his medication before filming the commercial, so Rush wasn't wrong, was he? > However, when John Kerry cracked wise about the President, they all > acted like they'd been shot. Don't give me that. For the last 6 years now, every time Bush stuttered, the Democrats came down on him like a ton of bricks....They insist that all presidents be accomplished public speakers. Not only Bush, but anybody remember a Veep named Dan Quayle? Democrats have written whole books about him.....So what did they expect when Kerry did his typical, "expect nothing from the riff-raff" bit. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...... > > That's an easy challenge. Where shall we start? > > Rush? Does Michael J. Fox ring a bell? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that he intentionally didn't take his medication before filming the > commercial, so Rush wasn't wrong, was he? Fox WAS on his medication and Rush was talking out of his a.s as usual. Too bad Rush can't use HIS symptoms for political gain, but I guess there isn't much call for a fat, lying drug addict. >> > That's an easy challenge. Where shall we start? >> > Rush? Does Michael J. Fox ring a bell? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Too bad Rush can't use HIS symptoms for political gain, but I guess > there isn't much call for a fat, lying drug addict. Well, in any case, that kind of, "evidence", or "testimonials" are anecdotal, and shouldn't be used to prove a point. If there is statistical evidence that proves the point, (and I believe there is) they should use it. I am in favor of government funded stem cell research, so I sympathize with Fox's point of view, but I still think Limbaugh was right. When I listen to guys like Limbaugh, which I occasionally do, the only things they say that I can bank on disagreeing with, are their religious clap-trap. If the Republicans just shut up about their religion, they would be (to me) the perfect party. > > I am in favor of government funded stem cell research, so I sympathize with > Fox's point of view, but I still think Limbaugh was right. How was he right? He claimed Fox was off his medication and was faking. Clearly, he was talking out his a.s since the medication contributes to the shaking. > When I listen to > guys like Limbaugh, which I occasionally do, the only things they say that I > can bank on disagreeing with, are their religious clap-trap. If the > Republicans just shut up about their religion, they would be (to me) the > perfect party. Yeah, it must be tough reconciling your atheism with the Republicans claiming to be the party of God. That alone should show you how stupid they are. > Yeah, it must be tough reconciling your atheism with the Republicans > claiming to be the party of God. That alone should show you how stupid > they are. Hey, Bret, is Spike a Republican, Democrat, or Independent? Either way lets get some more Spike pictures up instead of this nonsense. We all miss Spike and your great pics. Rita >> Yeah, it must be tough reconciling your atheism with the Republicans >> claiming to be the party of God. That alone should show you how stupid [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lets get some more Spike pictures up instead of this nonsense. We all > miss Spike and your great pics. What I'm wondering is whether Bret will be able to tell Spike from all the others is he loses his nail.....Does he have any other identifying marks on him? >> > I am in favor of government funded stem cell research, so I sympathize >> > with [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > claiming to be the party of God. That alone should show you how stupid > they are. Yes....Well, I oscillate. It depends on who they run. I consistently vote for a local Democratic congresswoman here in Oregon, and if the republicans run McCain against say, Rudy Guilliani in 2008, I will vote Democratic then, too......The party principals have been getting more and more blurred over the years, and today, it's hard to tell what being a republican means anymore. Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually hear him, so I don't know exactly what (and how) he said what he said......I do know he is a religious nut. About a year ago, I heard him say that all atheists were bad citizens......Pissed me off.......:^) > > Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually hear > him, so I don't know exactly what (and how) he said what he said......I do > know he is a religious nut. About a year ago, I heard him say that all > atheists were bad citizens......Pissed me off.......:^) William Graham on the Muslim situation: "Kill them all and let God sort them out. Oh wait, there is no God! sh.t!" >> > Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually hear >> him, so I don't know exactly what (and how) he said what he said......I do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"Kill them all and let God sort them out. Oh wait, there is no God! >sh.t!" George 41 (Dubya's father) is on record saying that atheists shouldn't be "considered as citizens." In the exchange below, RS is Robert Sherman, of American Atheist Press, and GB is George H.W. Bush. This took place in 1988 and is widely documented on the web. RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" GB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." <http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html#bush> Bear in mind that "one nation under God" claptrap was introduced in the 1950s -- you'll never find it in any of the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin et. al. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > Bear in mind that "one nation under God" claptrap > was introduced in the 1950s -- you'll never find it > in any of the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin > et. al. The original Pledge of Allegiance omitted reference not only to God but also, interestingly, to the United States: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." As you mentioned, the "One Nation Under God" part was added in 1954. >> Bear in mind that "one nation under God" claptrap >> was introduced in the 1950s -- you'll never find it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > As you mentioned, the "One Nation Under God" part was added in 1954. That's right.....I much preferred "invisible" to "under God".....The advantage of no one being able to see you is tremendous....:^) >>> > Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually >>> > hear [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > in any of the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin > et. al. A. You're preaching to the choir. B. I didn't vote for GHW Bush. When he called Schwartzkopf off in 1991, he pissed me off royally. > >>> > Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually > >>> > hear [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > I think it's a travesty that atheists be forced to defend a Christian ( or any other religian ) country. Further, I feel that any one who declares their atheism, should be given an honorable discharge and a twenty yr. pension at current grade, as reparation, immediately. Bob Hickey I think it's a travesty that atheists be forced to > defend a Christian ( or any other religian ) country. Further, I feel that > any one who declares their atheism, should be given an honorable discharge > and a twenty yr. pension at current grade, as reparation, immediately. > Bob Hickey But that's how Christians are created, isn't it? - Haven't you heard, there are no atheists in foxholes? >> > Maybe you are right about Limbaugh....As I said, I didn't actually >> > hear [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "Kill them all and let God sort them out. Oh wait, there is no God! > sh.t!" That's what the radical Muslim suicide bombers say.......That's why they don't care who dies when they bomb a plane, or restaurant or whatever...."Let Allah sort it all out and reward the faithful" is their attitude. It is impossible for someone like me to reason with people who think like that. > >> Bye Bye Bumsfeld....... good riddance to bad rubbish > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Who decided I was a liberal? I havn't wiped out as many countries as our esteemed Pres. but I don't feel the need to apoligise. Then again, neither does he. Bob Hickey Yebbit, Arnold has been deemed a "kingmaker." I voted for him, but that's a scary thought. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm > Yebbit, Arnold has been deemed a "kingmaker." I voted for him, but that's > a scary thought. All that's been accomplished is Zero useful legislation for the next two years.....Oh well, maybe that's a good thing....We've got too many laws already......Sorry guys, but I just don't see any momentous changes......But be sure to wake me up when the Democrats come up with their new, "Plan for getting out of Iraq strategy.".....:^) >All that's been accomplished is Zero useful legislation for the next two >years.....Oh well, maybe that's a good thing....We've got too many laws >already......Sorry guys, but I just don't see any momentous changes......But >be sure to wake me up when the Democrats come up with their new, "Plan for >getting out of Iraq strategy.".....:^) Boy Genius got us into this mess, and he's in utter denial. Things are swell. Mission Accomplished! Purple Fingers! Another "top Al Quaeda lieutenant"captured! A new milestone every day! Meanwhile, every morning, a few dozen more bodies are dumped at the Baghdad morgue, and a few more GIs are knocked off by IEDs. And the Genius sez, "stay the course." What f.cking course? Do you see a course? I see only madness, death, fraud and incompetence. Millions of smarter people, around the world, tried to tell Boy Genius: DON'T GO THERE. It's brave of the Dems to even try. Maybe they'll just focus on some safe (and popular) domestic issues for a while -- like raising the minimum wage. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >>All that's been accomplished is Zero useful legislation for the next two >>years.....Oh well, maybe that's a good thing....We've got too many laws [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > course? I see only madness, death, fraud > and incompetence. Well, I see 2 million People murdered by Saddam Hussein over a thirty year period, and another 2 million that would have been murdered by him and/or his sons during the next thirty. - Bush stopped that. But I don't see any Democrats giving him any credit for that....All they (you) do is bitch, bitch, bitch..... I also see a much more stable Middle East with a democratic government in Iraq, if it could only be. but if it doesn't happen, you can't blame bush for that.....At least, he tried, which is more than any other president has done during the last 30 years. But, that's OK.....Just continue to bitch. - Who knows......Maybe Hillary will be able to do better.....:^) (I'm not going to hold my breath, however.) > Millions of smarter people, around the > world, tried to tell Boy Genius: DON'T GO [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > rafe b > www.terrapinphoto.com > Well, I see 2 million People murdered by Saddam Hussein over a thirty year > period, and another 2 million that would have been murdered by him and/or > his sons during the next thirty. - Bush stopped that. How many have died since March 2003, William? Dubya didn't go into Baghdad out of compassion. That's laughable. He went in because of a trumped-up, nonexistent threat to *Americans.* It was the yellowcake, and the mushroom clouds that Saddam might rain on us. It was preemptive warfare. Shock and awe. It had nothing to do with compassion for Iraqis. Zero, zilch, nada. Dubya's compassion is limited to fetuses and the brain-dead. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > Dubya didn't go into Baghdad out of compassion. > That's laughable. Hear, hear! - Here is another characteristic of the liberal, Kinon.....He can get inside the minds of other people and know their motives.....Kind of a "remote psychiatry" Of course, other people are always beneath him, so they are easy to figure out.......They need the protection and knowledge of, "Us intelligent liberals" to show them the way....And, if they won't take our advice, well, "ve vill make laws"......... It is reasonable to want to psycho-analyze criminals in order to find out why they are what they are. It is not reasonable to psycho-analyze the law abiding in order to find out why they are not criminals. If Bush did something good, why do you need to question that? Who the hell cares why he went into Iraq? If you believe that it was a good thing, then vote for it. If you don't, then don't. But don't tell me that I should hate him because he did a good thing for the wrong reasons.....That's crazy in itself! > It is reasonable to want to psycho-analyze criminals in order to find out > why they are what they are. It is not reasonable to psycho-analyze the law > abiding in order to find out why they are not criminals. Bush = law-abiding? ROFLOL. > If Bush did something good, why do you need to question that? Who the hell > cares why he went into Iraq? You don't mind being lied to by your president? You don't mind 3000 GIs dead, tens of thousands wounded, a few hundred thousand Iraqis dead, hundreds of thousands more made refugees? You don't mind 1/2 trillion of your tax $$$ wasted (or used to enrich Halliburton stockholders?) > If you believe that it was a good thing, then vote for it. If you don't, > then don't. But don't tell me that I should hate him because he did a good > thing for the wrong reasons..... No, he did a supremely bad thing, for bad reasons, and lied to us in order to do it, and then questioned the patriotism of those who criticized him and compared us with terrorists. Have you no shame? rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >> It is reasonable to want to psycho-analyze criminals in order to find out >> why they are what they are. It is not reasonable to psycho-analyze the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > rafe b > www.terrapinphoto.com This is all the same old Democratic BS. President Bush hasn't lied to anyone. He thought Hussein had WMD's and I thought so too. (as did the Democrats.) I still think so. Hussein had months to get rid of them, probably by shipping them to Syria. There is no reason to believe that Bush or anyone else in the administration has lied to anyone. But this is such old BS, that it isn't worth talking about anymore. Just concentrate on telling me what miraculous fix the Democrats are going to come up with.......I need a good laugh....... >Just concentrate on >telling me what miraculous fix the Democrats are going to come up >with.......I need a good laugh....... I don't expect a miraculous fix. We're in deep sh.t, and no two ways about it. The genie's out of the bottle. Too bad Boy Genius didn't understand the diff between "Sunni" and "Shia" before jumping into that cauldron of sh.t. The best that can be hoped for is to avert a total bloodbath when we leave the place. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >>Just concentrate on >>telling me what miraculous fix the Democrats are going to come up [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The best that can be hoped for is to avert a total > bloodbath when we leave the place. Well, I said over a year ago that I thought there was a good possibility that Iraq could end up engulfed in civil war, but I don't think that's the, "best we can hope for." - I still think there is a fair chance that their democratic government can be successful. But then, I am only a stupid Republican. (Libertarian, actually) > This is all the same old Democratic BS. President Bush hasn't lied to > anyone. >There is no reason to believe that Bush > or anyone else in the administration has lied to anyone. Hey William, the Downing Street Memo says hi. What part of "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" are you having trouble with? >Snip< > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > will be able to do better.....:^) (I'm not going to hold my breath, > however.) Curious, William, who do you think put Saddam in as dictator of Iraq? Do you think that government (the one that created and installed Saddam) is responsible for the deaths of those 2 million? Do you think that civil war state is really a stable form of democratic government? You think that the Taliban in Afghanistan was bad?... Wait and see what becomes of Iraq in the next 5 years. Hindsight is 20/20, but you still need to look to see. You don't need a crystal ball to see what's coming in Iraq. 2 million will only be a drop in a very big, very red bucket. Take your blinders off and look at what your government has done not in the last 5 years, but the in last 50. Nation building is a dangerous game, especially for a group that does not subscribe to the same belief structure as the governed. "JimKramer" <jimG@jlkramer.net> wrote in message > Curious, William, who do you think put Saddam in as dictator of Iraq? > Do you think that government (the one that created and installed > Saddam) is responsible for the deaths of those 2 million? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > last 50. Nation building is a dangerous game, especially for a group > that does not subscribe to the same belief structure as the governed. Bush is not responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power. No more than I am responsible for slavery, or for putting the Native Americans on reservations. Yet, you liberals want me to pay repatriations for this, and you seem to want to blame George W. Bush for Saddam Hussein.....I don't understand this. So, I just chalk it up to another reason why I know liberals to have a mental disease. As a matter of fact, the US had nothing to do with Saddam Hussein working as a hit man for his uncle, and then taking over Iraq. We stupidly tried to use him against Iran, but even that is just more Monday morning quarterbacking. At the time, we thought it was a pretty good idea, and even (gasp) the liberals thought so. Again, neither Bush or I can go back and change anything done by government during the last 50 years. We can only go from here. Now that Bush is on his way out, what do you suggest we do? If you were to be in charge of the US government tomorrow morning, what would you do? If it is a good idea, then send Bush a letter and tell him about it. Or, tell me and I will send him a letter. Perhaps our new congress will come up with some good ideas.....I'm all ears....... > Bush is not responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power. No, that would be Ronald Reagan. And Don Rumsfeld. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > > Bush is not responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rafe b > www.terrapinphoto.com Nice picture. :-) William doesn't know enough history to even put that in context. His "liberal" interpretation of history and responsibilities of a government to its people is funny, funny sad that is. If only we could remove his right to vote based on sheer ignorance. No more democracy, give us a meritocracy, instead of a dispopularity contest. >> > Bush is not responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > more democracy, give us a meritocracy, instead of a dispopularity > contest. My right to vote has already been effectively removed....I live in one of the most Democratic states in the country.....My weak little Republican vote is lost in a sea of liberalism....Socialism, I call it....They even voted against limiting state spending to the population increase plus inflation....What a bunch of dummies you guys are...... >> Bush is not responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power. > > No, that would be Ronald Reagan. And Don Rumsfeld. That's wrong too....Read your history. Saddam Hussein came into power all on his own. The US didn't have anything to do with him until after the fact. He was a murder who killed about 1/3 of the Iraqi parliament in one day. He started out as a hit man for his uncle who was already in power. Sure, we tried to deal with him after he took over Iraq....Why not? It was either that, or attack Iraq with even less reason than we had in 2003. Just how would you deal with murderous dictators anyway? How much appeasement would you try before you gave up and started throwing bombs at them? And what if they bombed you first? Why are you a wishy-washy Democrat? And why should I vote for your brethren? > I also see a much more stable Middle East with a democratic government > in Iraq, if it could only be. but if it doesn't happen, you can't blame bush > for that.....At least, he tried, which is more than any other president has > done during the last 30 years. The Iraq's have paid an enormous price since 2003 for Bush's liberation. 300,000 to 600,00 of them have died depending on whose figures you believe. This in a country that has the population of California. That is 10 to 20 , 911's per year. Scale for population, it is a 911 every 2-4 days for the last 3 years. If you were the average person in Iraq are you really better off . Bush's father contained Saddam, the jet jockeys had radar systems for target practice instead of Canadian troops training in Afghanistan. Iraq even under Saddam was quite a peaceful place to live. Don't get me wrong he was not a nice guy. But coffee houses were open in the evening in Bagdad and it was safe to walk about. People give up rights and freedoms for stability and many of the oppressive regimes are that way with the grace of the population. The population develops small local communities and close bonding and trust between individuals. Freedom of speech and opinions are readily given up for security. The patriot act in the US is a classic example. It institutionalized the loss of many personal freedoms and passed essentially without opposition under the guise that not to vote for it was unpatriotic. My daily rant. I have some pictures to take w.. >> I also see a much more stable Middle East with a democratic >> government [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > really > better off . And you are going to blame Bush for every one of those lives, aren't you? - Saddam Hussein's hands are clean.....He was just a good fellow, minding his own business.....The business of torturing and murdering, and keeping his citizens at a $2500 a year poverty level, which is less than 1/3 the ME average.......But it was no skin off of our nose.....Why should we have cared? If Saddam had built another French reactor, well, Israel would have taken it out for us......Where is that hole in the sand where our head was buried? - I feel sleepy, so I would like to use it again, for another 10 or 20 years........ > Bush's father contained Saddam, the jet jockeys had radar systems for > target practice instead of Canadian troops training in Afghanistan. > > Iraq even under Saddam was quite a peaceful place to live. Don't get me > wrong he was not a nice guy. But coffee houses were open in the evening Tell those guys whose average lifespans were only 58 years, (13 years below the ME average) about those coffee houses.....I'm sure they will be thrilled...... > in Bagdad and it was safe to walk about. > > People give up rights and freedoms for stability Death is a very stable condition. Getting that way because of dirty drinking water and no medical services is just a little inconvenient......But those who survive can order another cup of coffee.....And they can gaze with pride ot one of the 20 palaces that Saddam built with their oil while they sip their lattes....... and many of the oppressive > regimes are that way with the grace of the population. The population > develops small local communities and close bonding and trust between [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > w.. Well, enjoy.....I see things a little differently from you, but that is what makes photography an interesting art, isn't it? > Well, I see 2 million People murdered by Saddam Hussein over a thirty year > period............ Circle of Friends : http://www.iolfree.ie/~badtaste/buddies.jpg 1983, Donald & Saddam with Tariq Azziz back to the camera, what do you think they were talking about? My money's on Iraqi human rights, freedom, rule of law and democracy, you with me Bill ? yeah all set! off to fantasy land we go........... >>>All that's been accomplished is Zero useful legislation for the next two >>>years.....Oh well, maybe that's a good thing....We've got too many laws [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >> rafe b >> www.terrapinphoto.com >> Well, I see 2 million People murdered by Saddam Hussein over a thirty >> year period............ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My money's on Iraqi human rights, freedom, rule of law and democracy, you > with me Bill ? yeah all set! off to fantasy land we go........... In 1983 Saddam had already been in power for about 13 years.....What did you expect our government officials to do? Spit on him? Maybe that's what I would have done, but then, I am not a diplomat......If I were running things, we would have been in a hell of a lot of more wars than we have been in during my lifetime. We didn't put this man into power. All we tried to do was deal with him, and use him to deal with Iran and other ME (perceived) enemies. And it isn't just the Republicans who pursued that policy, either. If Bush is the cause of all of our problems, then I expect them to all go away on January 2009, when Hillary takes over......:^) I will be waiting with baited breath....... > In 1983 Saddam had already been in power for about 13 years.....What did > you expect our government officials to do? Spit on him? Isn't that what you've been doing to Iran since '79 ? >>> Well, I see 2 million People murdered by Saddam Hussein over a thirty >>> year period............ [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > them to all go away on January 2009, when Hillary takes over......:^) I > will be waiting with baited breath....... > If I were running > things, we would have been in a hell of a lot of more wars than we have been > in during my lifetime. The entire world is thankful you never made it into power. That's all we'd need ... an atheist megalomaniac who wants to bomb everyone else into the stone ages. At least the current Christian megalomaniac is only concerned with countries with huge oil reserves. >> If I were running >> things, we would have been in a hell of a lot of more wars than we have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > everyone else into the stone ages. At least the current Christian > megalomaniac is only concerned with countries with huge oil reserves. Not near concerned enough, it turns out....... I am inviting certain selected democratic friends of mine to join my, "Monday Morning Quarterbacking Club". Would you like to join, Joseph? I think you should be a charter member....... >I am inviting certain selected democratic friends of mine to join my, >"Monday Morning Quarterbacking Club". Would you like to join, Joseph? I >think you should be a charter member....... Those that do not learn from the mistakes of the past, are destined to repeat those mistakes in the future. History does not start from today, one must consider the broadest context to obtain the clearest picture. >I am inviting certain selected democratic friends of mine to join my, >"Monday Morning Quarterbacking Club". Would you like to join, Joseph? I >think you should be a charter member....... > >I am inviting certain selected democratic friends of mine to join my, > >"Monday Morning Quarterbacking Club". Would you like to join, Joseph? I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > repeat those mistakes in the future. History does not start from today, > one must consider the broadest context to obtain the clearest picture. And history repeats itself.....but history doesn't always have to repeat itself.....In my experience, anything you bank on will probably fail you. Still in denial, eh William? Bush found a way to justify the invasion of Iraq, he found a way to pay for it, he found a way to justify needless deaths of thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, but he was unable to find a way to get us out. He's the worst president in this country's history, even worse than Lyndon Johnson, and that's quite a record. Huge government, massive spending, massive corruption, and a totally clueless outlook on the world add up to a president who just got fired. Jeezuz, William, wake up! > Still in denial, eh William? Bush found a way to justify the invasion of > Iraq, he found a way to pay for it, he found a way to justify needless [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeezuz, William, wake up! What film did you use? What did you expose for? Let's see an example photo... > What film did you use? What did you expose for? Republicans were exposed for being liars, crooks, and closet homosexuals. (Not the homosexual part that offends me -- it's the "closet" part.) rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >> What film did you use? What did you expose for? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (Not the homosexual part that offends me -- it's > the "closet" part.) Is that slide or print film? >>> What film did you use? What did you expose for? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Is that slide or print film? Hard to take photos in closets. In fact I think people go there in order not to be seen. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > Still in denial, eh William? Bush found a way to justify the invasion of > Iraq, he found a way to pay for it, he found a way to justify needless > deaths of thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, Why don't you compare those figures to the millions that Saddam killed during the last 30 years? (speaking of denial) but he > was unable to find a way to get us out. And where is your brilliant suggestion for, "Getting us out?" Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy........But, "Where's the beef?" He's the worst president in this > country's history, even worse than Lyndon Johnson, and that's quite a > record. I think I'll let history decide that. In the meantime, this last election didn't change that, did it? Huge government, massive spending, massive corruption, and a totally > clueless outlook on the world add up to a president who just got fired. Got fired? And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, don't you think? - I know I am doing well. I've been retired 10 years now, and my nest egg is as fat as it's ever been.....I find that pretty hard to argue with, but then, I am not a stupid liberal......I am willing to bet the ball park on American business, instead of government give-away programs..........We had only one proposition on our ballot here in Oregon that I cared about. It would have fixed the amount of money the state could spend at its present per capita level, with an inflation provision.....A perfect solution....The stupid liberals here voted it down by a 60% margin........ > Jeezuz, William, wake up! Jeezuz, Kinon, wake up! >> Still in denial, eh William? Bush found a way to justify the invasion of >> Iraq, he found a way to pay for it, he found a way to justify needless >> deaths of thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, > > Why don't you compare those figures to the millions that Saddam killed > during the last 30 years? (speaking of denial) Proof? Got any sources? I've never heard this claim, not anywhere. Hussein wasn't our problem. > but he >> was unable to find a way to get us out. > > And where is your brilliant suggestion for, "Getting us out?" Monday > morning quarterbacking is so easy........But, "Where's the beef?" Timetable for the new Iraqi government, then we reduce troop levels and leave. We are accomplishing absolutely nothing be being there except making things worse. We took a stable country and produced a civil war. > He's the worst president in this >> country's history, even worse than Lyndon Johnson, and that's quite a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Got fired? Essentially, yes. Due to his stupidity, his party lost control of both sides of the legislature. This is tantamount to a total rejection of bush and his stupididity. > And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, > don't you think? - I know I am doing well. I've been retired 10 years now, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > provision.....A perfect solution....The stupid liberals here voted it down > by a 60% margin........ Just curious: define "liberal." I dont' think you and I share the definition of that term, and I'm curious to hear what you call a liberal. >> Jeezuz, William, wake up! >> > Jeezuz, Kinon, wake up! Huh? what? >>> Still in denial, eh William? Bush found a way to justify the invasion of >>> Iraq, he found a way to pay for it, he found a way to justify needless [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Proof? Got any sources? I've never heard this claim, not anywhere. Hussein > wasn't our problem. Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's a document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the government experts estimate about 1.5 million, which is good enough for me...... > Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's a > document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the > government experts estimate about 1.5 million, which is good enough for > me...... Sorry, if it's a document produced by our government, forget it. They know nothing. >> Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's a >> document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Sorry, if it's a document produced by our government, forget it. They know > nothing. Who said it was a government document? - It is my document. I gathered the statistics, and made my own calculations, and drew my own conclusion.....What I said was, that some independent person (Perhaps a government employee) was on the TV, and gave a similar estimate to mine, but didn't elaborate on where his information came from, or how they came to believe it. No. My estimate of 2 million lost Iraqi lives over a thirty year period is entirely from my own calculations, which I will be glad to send you. >>> Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's a >>> document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > year period is entirely from my own calculations, which I will be glad to > send you. This is your estimate? Have you ever been to Iraq? Know anyone over there? Got any sources of intelligence over there? Where did you gather the info? From the news media (which is censored)? Come on, William, your own estimates? Seriously, how could a retired guy living on a pension in the northwest possibly be able to produce that kind of estimate? >>>> Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's a >>>> document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > living on a pension in the northwest possibly be able to produce that kind > of estimate? I generated the numbers from statistics about Iraq that were contained in the book, "National Geographic Atlas of the Middle East." I used population, expected lifetime, average annual Income, etc, of all the 14 Middle East countries.....Without the document, you don't know what you are talking about.....Do you think that other people have to physically visit a country themselves in order to draw some statistical conclusion about their economy, living conditions, etc? If you want to discuss my paper, you will have to read it. If you are so paranoid that you can't allow me to email it to you, then this discussion is over. >>>>> Email me off list with a valid address, and I'll send it to you. It's >>>>> a document of about 500 words, with sources.....but in any case, the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > so paranoid that you can't allow me to email it to you, then this > discussion is over. Not paranoid, just not a time waster. NG statistics aren't any better than any other news media source, and mean nothing. Sorry, but producing this type of estimate is simply beyond your capabilities. > Timetable for the new Iraqi government, then we reduce troop levels and > leave. We are accomplishing absolutely nothing be being there except > making things worse. We took a stable country and produced a civil war. We took a murderous dictatorial monarchy and produced a ?. (It's too soon to know) > Just curious: define "liberal." I dont' think you and I share the > definition of that term, and I'm curious to hear what you call a liberal. I'd have to write a book......I do have a lot on this subject, and I'm adding to it all the time. And I already have too much to post here....If you give me a valid address, I'll send what I have on the subject to you. In any case, the definition has changed over the years.....Most of what I have is based on the definition back in the 60's....I am stuck in that decade. In general, however, I haven't seen much that's different. They still are elitists who think that the average American is too stupid to make his own decisions, and needs a, "sophisticated liberal" to do that for him. (through government laws, of course) But they have many more despicable characteristics. - Enough to fill a book, I'm sure........ > And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, > don't you think? - I know I am doing well. I've been retired 10 years now, > and my nest egg is as fat as it's ever been.....I find that pretty hard to > argue with, but then, I am not a stupid liberal...... You never miss a chance to brag about your good fortune, William. You've even told us the square footage of your house. Does it occur to you that millions of your fellow citizens are less fortunate? Or does that only concern you... if they're Iraqi? rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com >> And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, >> don't you think? - I know I am doing well. I've been retired 10 years [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > footage of your house. Does it occur to you that > millions of your fellow citizens are less fortunate? I sympathize with those less fortunate if they are there through no fault of their own....such as an accident of birth, or an unforeseen disease or other calamity. I have no sympathy for those who had all the opportunities that I had, and refused to save and invest their money as I did, and are now depending on our government to steal my money away from me and give it to them. - I never liked Robin Hood....Even when I was a little boy and first saw the movie with Errol Flynn. I always thought of him as just another thief. What he did with the money he stole is of no consequence. Statistically, the number of people on the government dole who are sick or otherwise unable to work represents only less than 2% of the whole. 98% of them are just as able as I ever was. If I were running things, I would cut those 98% off at the pass, and give the other 2% an average salary of 30 to 50 grand a year. (and still use less than half as much money as we are using right now) > "And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, don't > you think? Ask the guy who works at the local WalMart. Actually ask yourself. The US dollar is now worth 68% against other currencies of what it did when Bush entered office 6 years ago. Apply that to Dow of 12100 or so and adjusted DOW value is 8231. There is a reason that major US companies are going to China for loans. Click >> "And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, >> don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Click I'm not sure what all that means, but in any case, I can only speak for myself....I am retired, and have no earned income....Only the interest and growth of my investments. And those are doing very well. I am living just as well now as I did the day before I retired over 10 years ago. I am not a stock buying genius, either.....My little "gambling" account with E-trade is behind about 30%. All I ever did that was good was take my fathers advice, and invest in American business. - I put 10% of every dollar I ever earned into the stock market, and it couldn't fail.....It had to work, because this country is nothing except for what it's businesses earn. That's the source of every dollar we have. No liberal has ever been able to show me any other source, and no government agency has ever earned a dime....All they are able to do is spend other people's money........ >>> "And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, >>> don't [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > ever earned a dime....All they are able to do is spend other people's > money........ Yeah, like Bush. Biggest spender in history. BTW, under th Clinton administration, the stock market went from under 4,000 to over 11,000. I guess that means that Clinton was far better for the economy than Bush, eh? >>>> "And our economy, with a 4.5% unemployment rate, is doing pretty well, >>>> don't [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > guess that means that Clinton was far better for the economy than Bush, > eh? Did I ever say that Clinton was bad for the economy?....I'm sorry, but I can't show you the same vitriolic hatred of Bill Clinton that you liberals have shown me you have for George Bush.......But to address your specific point, the stock market went down sharply, and stayed down, immediately following Clinton's replacement by Bush, and has only recently begun to recover....I'm not entirely sure what that means, because I don't know what the exact time lag is between good/bad economic policies and their ultimate result in the economy. I certainly can't place the blame for the bad times on either president, however, or the credit for the good times on Bush, either.....I will be the first to admit that I don't have a working model for the economy...... |
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