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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / November 2006Film Brake
Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? I ask because it happened to me today, the roll of film I was shoting in my Exa SLR snaped apart inside the camera, like there was stress on it or something. Everything seems to be ok with the camera itself, I've never had this happen before in all the years I've been pushing film through cameras.  SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? > > I ask because it happened to me today, the roll of film I was shoting in my > Exa SLR snaped apart inside the camera, like there was stress on it or > something. Everything seems to be ok with the camera itself, I've never had > this happen before in all the years I've been pushing film through cameras. Brake = Break? Anyway, it's most likely the film rewind is not turning freely. I don't know about the Exas, but at least the Exaktas have a very demultiplied film advance, which means that blockages & extra resistances are often not noticed. When I once had an Exakta without a working frame counter, I'd sometimes notice something was wrong when I realised that I'd shot over 50 shots - the extra resistance of the end-of-roll not being obviously noticeable with that camera (torn out film perforations)... > Anyway, it's most likely the film rewind is not turning freely. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When I once had an Exakta without a working frame counter, I'd sometimes > notice something was wrong when I realised that I'd shot over 50 shots - Yeah.....Ain't that a gas? Used to happen to me frequently in the old days, before cameras had all the electronic gizmos they do today......I don't think I ever had the film tear in half though.....But I've had it come off it's supply reel, so you couldn't rewind it back into the cassette.....Another good reason to carry a changing bag around with you...... >> Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the extra resistance of the end-of-roll not being obviously noticeable > with that camera (torn out film perforations)... Yeah, ain't it fun to open the camera back and find a small pile of celluloid fall out of the camera... SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm I opened the left over roll of film, the film itself was very britle, I was able to Break it by just putting some stress to it by hand. The sprocket holes had snapped at the point where it tore. So I figure that this roll of film was just no good. First roll I've ever run into that was like that. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >>> Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Yeah, ain't it fun to open the camera back and find a small pile of > celluloid fall out of the camera... > I opened the left over roll of film, the film itself was very britle, I was > able to Break it by just putting some stress to it by hand. The sprocket > holes had snapped at the point where it tore. So I figure that this roll of > film was just no good. First roll I've ever run into that was like that. What film was it? Any particular conditions (stored in oven, left in hot car, 40 years old, etc.)? [SNIP] > When I once had an Exakta without a working frame counter, I'd > sometimes notice something was wrong when I realised that I'd > shot over 50 shots - the extra resistance of the end-of-roll not > being obviously noticeable with that camera (torn out film > perforations)... I used to get that long ago with a Kiev, a Soviet version of a Contax rangefinder. In those days film wasn't so precisely measured and one quite often got rolls with as many as 41 shots on them, so it was a little easier than it is now to notice the 37th frame go by and not think too much of it... One of my 6x6 bodies has a broken counter currently, and it can be annoying, but at least there the film doesn't break, one just ends up taking a shot when there's no more film left behind the shutter. Must get that fixed. Peter Like somebody else mentioned, the winder on the Exacta has such a mechanical advantage that you could rip right through the attachment at the end of the roll. If you were used to loading the film in order to get more than 36-37 shots per roll, you had to be really careful when you got past that point... SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm > Like somebody else mentioned, the winder on the Exacta has such a mechanical > advantage that you could rip right through the attachment at the end of the > roll. If you were used to loading the film in order to get more than 36-37 > shots per roll, you had to be really careful when you got past that point... I still use an Exakta occasionally, even with self-rolled film. Advancing the film does take a much more delicate & sensitive touch than with the vast majority of other cameras. Now that I'm used to it, it isn't a problem anymore, but for someone used to cameras which stop dead at the end of a roll, an Exakta can reserve some unpleasant surprises... This happened in the MIDDLE of the film, there was as much still in the film can and there was on the take up spool. And after testing the film I judged it as a weak film unable to withstand and stress no matter how slight. I was able to rip it apart with nothing but my hands. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Like somebody else mentioned, the winder on the Exacta has such a > mechanical advantage that you could rip right through the attachment at > the end of the roll. If you were used to loading the film in order to get > more than 36-37 shots per roll, you had to be really careful when you got > past that point... > This happened in the MIDDLE of the film, there was as much still in the film > can and there was on the take up spool. And after testing the film I judged > it as a weak film unable to withstand and stress no matter how slight. I was > able to rip it apart with nothing but my hands. But unless we know whether or not you are faster than a speeding locomotive and able to leap tall buildings with a single bound, that doesn't actually tell us much about the film... ;-) Peter The advance knob has no lever and I always turned it slowly. When the film snapped I was turning the advance knob and there was an tug and I could hear it rip and then there was no pulling on the knob when I turned it next, so I hit rewind and turned the rewind knob and that took all of a second and I opened the camera to find the ripped film. I had already shot two rolls of film and they worked fine. Faster than a speeding locomotive? Heck I reach the speed of light in 1st gear. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > But unless we know whether or not you are faster than a speeding > locomotive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Peter "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message \one just ends up taking a shot > when there's no more film left behind the shutter. Must get that fixed. > > Peter Yes....Please do, before the aliens land their UFO in your back yard, and you find out later that you were out of film..... > "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes....Please do, before the aliens land their UFO in your back yard, > and you find out later that you were out of film..... Oh come on Bill - you know I've got more than just the one camera about the house... Peter >> "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Peter Yeah....but Murphy says that whichever camera you've got with you when the aliens land will be the one that has just run out of film, or batteries if it's digital........ > "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message Yeah....but Murphy says that whichever camera you've got with you when the > aliens land will be the one that has just run out of film, or batteries if > it's digital........ After you've run back into the house to get your other camera, when you get back, you'll find a note pinned to the tree in your back yard that says, "Sorry we couldn't wait, but we had to get back to Alpha Centauri for my daughter's wedding......We'll be back in about a hundred years....." > > "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "Sorry we couldn't wait, but we had to get back to Alpha Centauri for my > daughter's wedding......We'll be back in about a hundred years....." Yeah. You wouldn't believe how many photo.s I have of notes just like that. And always written in such lovely handwriting too... Peter [---] >One of my 6x6 bodies has a broken counter currently, and it can be annoying, >but at least there the film doesn't break, one just ends up taking a shot >when there's no more film left behind the shutter. Must get that fixed. Not a Pentacon 6, by any chance? > [---] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not a Pentacon 6, by any chance? Actually an Exakta 66 - which is the same thing, only even more Germanic, since it's dressed in kinky black rubber. ;-) Peter >> Not a Pentacon 6, by any chance? > >Actually an Exakta 66 - which is the same thing, only even more Germanic, >since it's dressed in kinky black rubber. I take it the kinky black dress doesn't make up for the faults which they've apparently inherited in their entirety from the P6. I think Ralf Radermacher (who regretfully hasn't been seen here for a while) gave up in disgust with the two E66s he had. > >> Not a Pentacon 6, by any chance? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ralf Radermacher (who regretfully hasn't been seen here for a while) > gave up in disgust with the two E66s he had. I have two too, and also two P6s. I try to persevere with them because some of the glass I have is so good, but the bodies can be frustrating. It's a shame really, because it's a rather good system in many ways. I shot a calendar with them last year (well, all but one of the twelve shots I used were done with the E66s or P6s, the other one needed a wider lens than I had in P6 mount and I used a modified Century Graphic). Peter >>>> Not a Pentacon 6, by any chance? >>> Actually an Exakta 66 - which is the same thing, only even more Germanic, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I used were done with the E66s or P6s, the other one needed a wider lens > than I had in P6 mount and I used a modified Century Graphic). Actually, the Kiev 60 is a better camera (not just a Soviet copy). It is important to flock the insides against reflections (kits exist for that). Otherwise, mechanics, viewfinder coverage, frame spacing are all better and it uses the same lenses of course. Most of the complaints (unadjusted meter, uncalibrated focusing screen) are easy DIY jobs to solve. However I just got a Pentax 6x7, so in a few weeks (after I've tried it out well and decided if I really prefer it) there might be a flocked & tested Kiev 60 + lenses for sale... ;-) [SNIP] > Actually, the Kiev 60 is a better camera (not just a Soviet copy). It is > important to flock the insides against reflections (kits exist for that). > > Otherwise, mechanics, viewfinder coverage, frame spacing are all > better and it uses the same lenses of course. Most of the complaints > (unadjusted meter, uncalibrated focusing screen) are easy DIY jobs to > solve. > However I just got a Pentax 6x7, so in a few weeks (after I've tried it > out well and decided if I really prefer it) there might be a flocked & > tested Kiev 60 + lenses for sale... > ;-) I keep thinking I should try a Kiev 60, though the handling of the P6s is much nicer. I have a Kiev pentaprism that I use on the E66s with an adapter, and it is much brighter than the P6 prism. Yes, a a Pentax 67 is a much more serious camera - but I like the square format for certain subjects and, much as I like Pentax glass, in P6 mount I have a number of the wonderful Schneider lenses. It's those lenses (and the Sonnar 180) that really make me keep using the P6 mount. But not for shooting anything that I couldn't go back to and shoot again! Peter > [SNIP] >> Actually, the Kiev 60 is a better camera (not just a Soviet copy). It is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Sonnar 180) that really make me keep using the P6 mount. But not for > shooting anything that I couldn't go back to and shoot again! I've only handled P6's and not used them seriously, but I agree that the Kiev 60 does define the concept of "Klunkiness"! I've taken some of my best pictures with a Rolleiflex TLR, but now the attraction of the Pentax 6x7 is the format, as well as the 45mm lens (wider, lighter and with a good lens shade - compared to the Zeiss Jena 50mm). The P6 Schneiders are as expensive as Mamiya 7 equipment (which I suppose would be the ideal MF system for my use). If all goes "well", I might keep my P6 180mm & 300mm Sonnars for use with my Exakta! >I've only handled P6's and not used them seriously, but I agree that the >Kiev 60 does define the concept of "Klunkiness"! That's why I persevere with the P6 - when they decide to work, they are much nicer to handle than the K60. Moreover, although there is no question about it, the K60 is intrinsically much more reliable than the P6, using CZJ lenses on it isn't always as straightforward as some would have one believe. On some K60 bodies, you need to drill out the slot into which the lens indexing screw fits, otherwise it isn't possible to lock the lens onto the camera body securely - Zeiss and Arsat specifications are not strictly identical. Or file down the CZJ indexing pin, which I find somewhat barbaric. > Moreover, although there is no question about it, the K60 is > intrinsically much more reliable than the P6, using CZJ lenses on it > isn't always as straightforward as some would have one believe. I can vouch for compatibility with the pre-MC 50mm, 120mm, 180mm & 300mm CZJ lenses. I've heard about the incompatibility problem, but these are the majority of the non-Arsat lenses (65, 80, Meyer 300 & 500 - anything else? - excepted). >> Moreover, although there is no question about it, the K60 is >> intrinsically much more reliable than the P6, using CZJ lenses on it >> isn't always as straightforward as some would have one believe. > >I can vouch for compatibility with the pre-MC 50mm, 120mm, 180mm & 300mm >CZJ lenses. My experience doesn't contradict that - I had the problem only with MC lenses. >I've heard about the incompatibility problem, but these are the majority >of the non-Arsat lenses (65, 80, Meyer 300 & 500 - anything else? - >excepted). I had difficulties with a Flektogon and a Sonnar, both MC. >>> Moreover, although there is no question about it, the K60 is >>> intrinsically much more reliable than the P6, using CZJ lenses on it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I had difficulties with a Flektogon and a Sonnar, both MC. Good to know! It will still be a while until I decide whether the Pentax 6x7 will really replace the Kiev 60 kit. More likely I'll decide that one or more CZJ lenses have some unique & irreplaceable characteristic and I'll end up keeping everything... :-( Doing a little drilling & filing, if necessary, is certainly part of the old DIY East European camera philosophy. It has its charms! ;-) > the roll of film I was shooting in my Exa SLR snapped apart inside the > camera, like there was stress on it I have had problems with the sprocket holes tearing in my old Exa 500 [an Exa IIb with a 1/500th speed]. This usually happened with home-loads of bulk film. The Exa's sprocket wheel only had 4 [? - some low number] sprockets on it and it wasn't hard for it to slip and snag. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com This was a roll of the newer kodak 400 film not a home load. I'm going to take apart the film cesset to look at the left over film and see if I can figure out the cause of it. This is a 1954 Exa only goes up to 1/150 shutter speed. This was the 2nd roll of film, first one was ok, and my old 1930's Exacta is doing fine so far. Just never had this happen before with any of the cameras I've had. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> the roll of film I was shooting in my Exa SLR snapped apart inside the >> camera, like there was stress on it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > only had 4 [? - some low number] sprockets on it and it wasn't > hard for it to slip and snag. > Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- Well, that's weird, I had written something to the effect that is was an odd coincidence that the only time I had a roll of film break was in an Exacta VX, when the rod that held the film cassette became slightly misaligned and caused some binding. SignatureSkip Middleton www.shadowcatcherimagery.com www.pbase.com/skipm Well I looked at the camera itself and everything seems to be ok, the take up spool fits in just right I've turned the advace knob while putting sone force on the sprockets and they still turn just fine. I took the film casset and opened it up and removed the last of the film, which is that kodak 400 film and by hand I was able to rip it apart and rip it up into tiny bits of film. Doing this with my bare hands. To me it looked to be the fault of the film itself. So for my trip out to edwards saturday, I'll load that camera up with 200asa film which I've already put a roll threw it and take a roll of the 400 film for the topcon after I shoot up the slide film in it. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html > Well, that's weird, I had written something to the effect that is was an > odd coincidence that the only time I had a roll of film break was in an > Exacta VX, when the rod that held the film cassette became slightly > misaligned and caused some binding. > I took the film casset and opened it up and removed the last of the film, > which is that kodak 400 film and by hand I was able to rip it apart and > rip Just what is this film ... Tri-X, TMY, Academy ...? What happened to it? I think everyone here would like to avoid having the same experience. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com It was Kodak MAX Versatility asa 400 film. The tear was not a stright across one, it was like a < shaped and only the sprocket holes right at the tear where ripped. I've got a rol of that film in my topcon super d now as a test to see if it goes threw it ok. The Exa takeup reel was in the right place, no up or down movement, just as if it had a weak spot and the film going threw the camera made it tear at that spot. I've got a roll of film in the Exa now and so far it's working fine. Could have been just one bad roll, hard to know. SignatureThe Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Sidewalk Astronomy www.sidewalkastronomy.info The Church of Eternity http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html >> I took the film casset and opened it up and removed the last of the film, >> which is that kodak 400 film and by hand I was able to rip it apart and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > happened to it? I think everyone here would like to > avoid having the same experience. > Has anyone ever had a roll of film Brake inside their camera? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I've never had this happen before in all the years I've been pushing > film through cameras. "Brake", as in...stop? ...Or "break" as in...split into pieces?? Sometimes spelling really does count...even on usenet. :) SignatureImages (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at: www.pbase.com/markuson |
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