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Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / August 2006

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Can You Clean Nikon F Viewfinder?

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Jules Vide - 26 Aug 2006 12:13 GMT
I never realized exactly how far cameras had come until I started to do
some long-needed maintenance on an inherited Nikon F.  I was able to
clean most of the lens mechanism, but the viewfinder is so clogged, I
don't know how I'll focus.  Can professional camera shops dismantle the
viewfinder and clean it?
Chris Loffredo - 26 Aug 2006 11:14 GMT
> I never realized exactly how far cameras had come until I started to do
> some long-needed maintenance on an inherited Nikon F.  

Yes, currently made cameras don't have such problems: They'll be thrown
away long before they have a chance to develop...

Unless the stuff doing the "clogging" is fungus, it can certainly be
cleaned.

Nicolas' excellent answer was a bit mirror-centric, so I'll cover other
aspects:
The focusing screen can be taken out and - if it is the source of the
clogging - cleaned. If necessary - and if you're feeling adventurous -
the screen itself can easily be taken apart for cleaning. If the screen
is badly scratched or abraded, may have to get another one (easy to find).

Also the eyepiece: If it seems that there is a lot of dirt between the
inner eyepiece and the prism proper, you can (again if feeling
adventurous) take the eyepiece off undoing two screws hidden under the
leatherette on both sides of the eyepiece.

And of course any good repair shop can do a more thorough job if necessary.
Only in the case of fungus, which often permanently etches glass, might
it not be worth repairing.
Jules Vide - 27 Aug 2006 10:53 GMT
> Unless the stuff doing the "clogging" is fungus, it can certainly be
> cleaned.

Oh my God, no!  Just extremely extremely dusty.  My father was an
amateur pilot who visited a lot of military air shows, so I assume this
explains (at least in part) why what I call the viewfinder is so dusty.

> Nicolas' excellent answer was a bit mirror-centric, so I'll cover other
> aspects:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> adventurous) take the eyepiece off undoing two screws hidden under the
> leatherette on both sides of the eyepiece.

Yes, I'm grateful to Nicholas and to you too.  I'm just a bit confused
by the various terms you both have used.  When I removed the 50mm lens,
I had access to the mirrors, and since I'm a clean-o-holic, I didn't
really seek out opinions as to whether to clean the dust (the F book I
bought said "Don't touch them!).

I'm assuming that by "eyepiece," you mean what I'm calling viewfinder.
I'll try to find those two screws and go to work.

Thanks again to both of you.
Chris Loffredo - 27 Aug 2006 01:34 GMT
>> Unless the stuff doing the "clogging" is fungus, it can certainly be
>> cleaned.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> I'm assuming that by "eyepiece," you mean what I'm calling viewfinder.
> I'll try to find those two screws and go to work.

Wait, STOP!

You do know how to take the prism off?

If not, then:
On the front side of the prism is a plastic-coated lever (if you have a
Ftn) next to the "F"  letter.
On the back of the body - to the left of the viewfinder - is a small button.

Simultaneously press the lever inward and push the button (with a
thumbnail) and you can pull the prism off.

You can then turn the body upside-down (preferably over a clean cloth)
and press the small button again: The focusing screen will drop out.

That might be all you need to do to access areas needing cleaning.

If you have more questions, please ask...
Nicholas O. Lindan - 27 Aug 2006 16:51 GMT
"Chris Loffredo" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message

> Wait, STOP!

Along with this excellent advice...

The eyepiece lens is the lens on the back of
the prism you look through - sort of like a
porthole.  It unscrews, grab the rim and
turn.  Sometimes dust gets behind this
lens.  If there is no dust there then
don't remove it.
Chris Loffredo - 27 Aug 2006 10:11 GMT
> "Chris Loffredo" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> lens.  If there is no dust there then
> don't remove it.

O.K. This is getting confusing.

There is:

1) What Nicholas just described (I prefer to call it an eyepiece filter).
It is round (c. 2 cm diameter) and => often missing.
It is usually simple flat glass, though rarely it will be optically
corrected for a specific user.
It is intended to be easily replaced (screwed in and out) by the user.

2) What I call the eyepiece lens.
It is an optical element before the prism itself.
It is not intended to be taken out by the user (it is held in place by
the 2 (or 4) screws under the leatherette - at least in the case of the
Photomics).
It should only be taken apart if really necessary and if you are not
afraid of using a screwdriver.

3) The advice I gave earlier on removing the prism is valid for the
Photomic Ftn. Earlier Photomics and the simple meterless prism don't
have the plastic-coated lever, just use the small button o the back of
the camera.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 27 Aug 2006 22:03 GMT
>> The eyepiece lens is the lens on the back of
>> the prism you look through - sort of like a
>> porthole.

> There is:
>
> 1) What Nicholas just described (I prefer to call it an eyepiece filter).

OK by me.  The ones I normally have on my Nikons are +1
lenses and aren't filters in any sense of the word.
I can't remember if the OE ones are flat glass, probably are.

> 2) What I call the eyepiece lens.
> It is an optical element before the prism itself.

OK by me again ... Not the thing one normally removes for
cleaning.  On the F2 [same as the F?] it is behind a square
black plastic thingy w/o any obvious way to get at it.
Jules Vide - 29 Aug 2006 11:20 GMT
> it is behind a square black plastic thingy w/o
> any obvious way to get at it.

Oh, sh&t.  I followed Chris' advice and got the prism off, but the only
thing that's really filthy is the *inner* side of the "square black
plastic thingy."  I really need to clean this, first, because I'm a
clean freak who is intensely bothered by dirt in general, and second,
because I'm a clean freak who is intensely bothered by dirt I cannot
attack and rid the universe of.

:)

I *can* see through it, and I can focus, but it intrudes on the whole
Nikon F experience.  Would a professional be able to clean it, or can
this part somehow be replaced?
Nicholas O. Lindan - 29 Aug 2006 12:27 GMT
> Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
> > it is behind a square black plastic thingy w/o
> > any obvious way to get at it.
> Oh, sh&t.  I followed Chris' advice and got the prism off, but the only
> thing that's really filthy is the *inner* side of the "square black
> plastic thingy."

I assume you have unscrewed the
lens/filter/round-whatsit-what-you-look-through
from the black plastic thingy?

If it is the lens that sits right up against the
prism, the one revealed through the hole in the
thingy when you remove the whatsit, and the
dirt is on the prism side of this lens
then is should be do major job to clean it.
Chris Loffredo - 29 Aug 2006 14:43 GMT
>> Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
>>> it is behind a square black plastic thingy w/o
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> dirt is on the prism side of this lens
> then is should be do major job to clean it.

As I mentioned before, 2 (actually probably 4) screws under the
leatherette flanking the eyepiece open it quite easily.
For someone used to using jewelers screwdrivers, it is an easy job. No
particular problems, apart from gluing the leatherette back on smoothly.

The eyepeice:

I----------------I
I  x    II     x I
I     I    I     I
I   I        I   I
I     I    I     I
I  x    II     x I
I----------------I

x being the position of the screws under the leatherette
Nicholas O. Lindan - 29 Aug 2006 16:07 GMT
> As I mentioned before, 2 (actually probably 4) screws under the
> leatherette ...

Looked at the OP, 'Photomic' finder, and I have
been sitting here with a plain prism finder.
Disregard the black plastic thingy and just
peel leather.
Chris Loffredo - 29 Aug 2006 16:47 GMT
>> As I mentioned before, 2 (actually probably 4) screws under the
>> leatherette ...
>
> Looked at the OP, 'Photomic' finder, and I have
> been sitting here with a plain prism finder.

Actually, I don't think he mentioned which he has, which also causes me
to doubt the value of my advice.

Of course I automatically assume all "F"s have Ftn finders...
;-)
Nicholas O. Lindan - 29 Aug 2006 18:48 GMT
> Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
> > > Jules Vide wrote
> > > > How do I clean a Nikon F finder?
> > > Ftn finder cleaning instructions
> > plain prism cleaning instructions
> Of course I automatically assume all "F"s have Ftn finders...
Of course I automatically assume the back of an FTn finder is
just like the plain prism finder

Dear Mr. Vide:

Sorry that not much has been making sense.  Or
_shouldn't_ have been making sense.
Jules Vide - 29 Aug 2006 23:55 GMT
> > As I mentioned before, 2 (actually probably 4) screws under the
> > leatherette ...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Disregard the black plastic thingy and just
> peel leather.

Well, I managed to do all this, but :( I broke the chiclet-size glass.
(There was a very fine crack in it already, and I have a feeling
someone *might* have tried to clean it before.  But I don't feel TOO
bad, because, behind this piece of glass further into the prism, a
second similarly-size (chiclet) glass proved to be the part clogged
with dust.

I cleaned it magnificently and will try to find someone who just might
be able to replace the eyepiece-glass.  Anyway, guys, I regret nothing
about this and am glad I broke for free what a repairman would have
broken anyway for big bucks.

I'll let you know if I get a replacement glass, and post again if I
need an entire replacement prism.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 30 Aug 2006 00:38 GMT
> I'll let you know if I get a replacement glass, and post again if I
> need an entire replacement prism.

But what is it you have: Finder or Prism?

Finder (Ftn) = big boxy chrome thing w/ lots of buttons
Prism = low 'trapezoidal thing w/ no buttons

The cheapest solution may be to buy a well busted
fisim with an intact eyepiece [or whatever] lens.

Ftn has become sort of a generic name for Nikon F metered
finders though some are Fts or Photomics or ?

Inoperative Ftn & Co. finders were easy to find,
and cheap, because for a while there was no way
to fix the meter. Now there is a man who fixes
the meters.

Prism finders are somewhat rare and priced
higher than they should be -- collectors.
Jules Vide - 30 Aug 2006 00:55 GMT
> But what is it you have: Finder or Prism?
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> to fix the meter. Now there is a man who fixes
> the meters.

I do wish the antique manual I bought had a diagram correctly
identifying the parts, because half of my difficulty understanding you
and Chris has been the fact we're all three using different terms to
specify the same thing (probably!).

Not only this, but my "manual" doesn't even address what the Ftn's and
meter's operation and/or purpose are.  It describes a lot of advantages
of the F, and I have a feeling this book really wasn't an operator's
manual but a kind of hard-covered, 1960's advertisement for the camera.

So if you know a site where I could 1) buy a busted Ftn, specifically
for a new eyepiece, or 2) read in depth about this nice antique, I'd
appreciate learning here.
Chris Loffredo - 30 Aug 2006 06:50 GMT
> I do wish the antique manual I bought had a diagram correctly
> identifying the parts, because half of my difficulty understanding you
> and Chris has been the fact we're all three using different terms to
> specify the same thing (probably!).

Should have sent this to you from the start:

All Nikon F finders:
http://www.cameraquest.com/nfinder.htm

General Nikon F history (shows non-metered prism):
http://www.cameraquest.com/fhistory.htm

Enjoy your F!
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 30 Aug 2006 07:41 GMT
>> Ftn has become sort of a generic name for Nikon F metered
>> finders though some are Fts or Photomics or ?

The first Nikon F cameras (circa late 1950's) had plain prism finders.
No meter at all. Nikon introduced the Photomic F finder, which was coupled
to the shutter and lens, but had a seperate photocell that looked out
from the front. Originaly they had a little screw on telescope which
narrowed the field of view.

In 1964, Nikon quietly widened the mirror box to accomodate larger finders.
Therefore the mirror boxes and internal parts are different from the older
models and not interchangable.

The second version of the finder was called the Photomic FT. It measure light
by averaging the light on the full frame.

The third version of the finder was called the Photomic FTn. It measured
the light from the full frame, but 60% of it's metering came from a
small circle in the center. This is called "center weighted" metering.
The Photomic FTn was the best of the group, there were other improvments
to it.

All of the Photomic F finders use mercury batteries and will not work
properly with Alkeline batteries. They can be adjusted/modified to work
with them. The easiest way is to just reduce your ASA film speed by 2/3 of an
F stop. This will work with everything except slide film, and be pretty
close with it.

Parts have not been available since around 1980 or so, depending upon
what repair stores were hoarding. The big problem is that the meters
depended upon a plastic strip with carbon deposited on it. They were
never kept in large quantities as spares. They are destroyed by useage,
the carbon wears off, like the volume control of an old radio.

One can often get them to work for a while, by rubbing them with a pencil
to replace the carbon. If you do this yourself, it's worth it to keep
an old FTn meter in working condition, if you have to pay $75 each time
for someone else to do it, it's probably not.

At this point, IMHO a mint FTn is too valuable to use, a "user" if
maintained properly will run for many years, but once it goes,
without the meter.

This is true of all the "analog" Nikon cameras, the F, the pre-AI F2's,
the Nikormats and especialy the Nikkorex-F. The Nikkorex-F was NOT
made by Nikon and never sold in the quantites the other cameras
were sold in, and are more valuable due to their rarity.

Note that there was a small amount of F2 Photomic finders made in mid-1977
that were not analog and not AI. Very desirable and rare.

Geoff.

Signature

Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667  Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Jim - 30 Aug 2006 00:54 GMT
> I'll let you know if I get a replacement glass, and post again if I
> need an entire replacement prism.

New replacement parts for Nikon F have not been available for years.  Your
only hope is to find a replacement finder.

Jim
Jules Vide - 30 Aug 2006 11:59 GMT
> New replacement parts for Nikon F have not been available for years.  Your
> only hope is to find a replacement finder.

Well, color me Kodachrome!  Interestingly, after busting the eyepiece,
I discovered that what I will call the anterior or interior eyepiece
was the actual culprit in terms of dust collecting.  When I cleaned it,
it turned out I could focus through *it*.  Sure it isn't as good as
having an eyepiece, but it's still useable and frankly (to an
obsessive-compulsive cleaner) preferable to using a camera that is
dusty and filthy.

Thanks for all the input, group.
Chris Loffredo - 30 Aug 2006 06:40 GMT
>>> As I mentioned before, 2 (actually probably 4) screws under the
>>> leatherette ...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> second similarly-size (chiclet) glass proved to be the part clogged
> with dust.

The thin, round eyepiece glass is cheap and easy to find - it is the
same size as those used for most other classic Nikons.

It isn't even really necessary: My own F doesn't even have one. I think
it was sold as an accessory .Probably lets more dust in though.

If in Paris, a stroll down Avenue Beaumarchais will find one for sure.
Jules Vide - 28 Aug 2006 11:57 GMT
> Wait, STOP!

Ha, you guys are the patron saints of this group.  I don't have the
time this AM to carry out your mutual suggestions but will report back
once little Effie is spit-polished (figuratively!).
Nicholas O. Lindan - 26 Aug 2006 14:27 GMT
"Jules Vide" <passepasrien@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> ...long-needed maintenance on an inherited Nikon F.  ...
> the viewfinder is so clogged, I don't know how I'll
> focus ... [help]

"Clogged"?

I take it you mean _very_ dusty.

The prism comes off from the body, the focusing
screen can be removed and the eyepiece lens
unscrews from the prism.

That should give access to do any needed cleaning.

If the mirror just has a little dust on it then
leave it alone.

If really dusty you may as well clean it.  There
will be shrieks of protest to this advice, but
it is really no big deal.  If the job is botched,
using sandpaper for removing the dust, a few scratches
on the mirror won't do anything; certainly preferable
to a mirror covered with thick dust.

To clean the mirror:

o Blow away as much dust as possible with a can of
  compressed air.

o Brush what remains with a soft artists' brush
  or a loose clump of lens tissue.

o Blow the loosened dust away.

o Repeat brush/blow until dust is gone

If needed:

o Remove any thick stuck on mud-like-stuff
  with your fingernail.

o Clean with a lens tissue wet with Windex
  using little to no pressure: However, don't
  do this for lenses mounted in the camera
  - use a damp lens tissue or q-tip.

o Wipe clean and repeat the Windex cleaning as
  needed.

o If sticky jam residue remains remove it with
  a very wet q-tip and very little pressure.

o Heavy grease can be removed with a q-tip and
  lighter fluid.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm

 
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