Photo Forum / Film Photography / 35 mm / July 2006
MF lenses on AF bodies
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Pinaki - 25 Jul 2006 18:14 GMT Does anyone have experience with using MF lenses on Pentax ZX-5? I want to buy a 50mm prime -- the 50/1.7 M version seems to be the cheapest option. But, the focusing screen does not seems to be very MF friendly. Will the "in focus" LED work with MF lenses? Also, what about metering? The M version does not support auto-exposure. Does that simply mean that I won't be able to use the auto modes, but everything (read exposure confirmation) will behave normally in the manual mode?
Or should I stop being a cheapo and buy the FA 50/1.4 instead?
TIA, Pinaki.
Mark Roberts - 25 Jul 2006 21:17 GMT >Does anyone have experience with using MF lenses on Pentax ZX-5? >I want to buy a 50mm prime -- the 50/1.7 M version seems to be the >cheapest option. But, the focusing screen does not seems to be >very MF friendly. Will the "in focus" LED work with MF lenses? Yes, it will.
>what about metering? The M version does not support auto-exposure. It doesn't support *shutter preferred* autoexposure (or program). It will work in aperture-preferred autoexposure.
>Does that simply mean that I won't be able to use the auto modes, >but everything (read exposure confirmation) will behave normally in >the manual mode? You can use manual mode, too.
>Or should I stop being a cheapo and buy the FA 50/1.4 instead? Well there *is* always that possibility! Manual focusing will be easier with any f/1.4 lens, too :)
 Signature Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835
jeremy - 26 Jul 2006 19:41 GMT > Does anyone have experience with using MF lenses on Pentax ZX-5? > I want to buy a 50mm prime -- the 50/1.7 M version seems to be the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > TIA, > Pinaki. The "A" lenses will better exploit your body.
But this begs the question, why did you buy an autofocus body if you are going to mount manual lenses on it? Sure, you can use MF lenses. But are you going to enjoy using a kit that has lenses with different capabilities?
The FA 50mm f/1.9 is the optimum choice. I have heard it described as "the lens that Leica SHOULD have made, but didn't." And it's autofocus, too.
Pinaki - 26 Jul 2006 20:12 GMT > The "A" lenses will better exploit your body. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The FA 50mm f/1.9 is the optimum choice. I have heard it described as "the > lens that Leica SHOULD have made, but didn't." And it's autofocus, too. Dear Jeremy and Mark, Thanks for your responses. The reason for buying an AF body was mainly the built-in flash. Plus, the "whole" kit (body+28-80) came to $120, so I caved in. The reason for looking for a MF lens is only the price difference ($170 for the FA 50/1.4 vs. ~$50 for the M 50/1.7). Jeremy, I was not aware of the FA 50/1.9, or did you mean the 50/1.4? If it is that good, I'll probably save up for that.
Thanks again, Pinaki.
jeremy - 26 Jul 2006 22:29 GMT >> The "A" lenses will better exploit your body. >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks again, > Pinaki. Look here for FA Limited 50mm f/1.9:
http://www.cameraquest.com/pen4319.htm
Bandicoot - 26 Jul 2006 23:12 GMT > >> The "A" lenses will better exploit your body. > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > to $120, so I caved in. > > The reason for looking for a MF lens is only the price difference
> > ($170 for the FA 50/1.4 vs. ~$50 for the M 50/1.7). Jeremy, I was not > > aware of the FA 50/1.9, or did you mean the 50/1.4? If it is that good, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.cameraquest.com/pen4319.htm 43mm, not 50mm. 43 is actually a very nice length.
The 43mm f1.9 FA Limited is a controversial lens. No one disputes the fabulous build quality, but some love, and some hate, the optics. It's _extremely_ sharp and contrasty, but some users argue that that is at the cost of bokeh that is less attractive than in other Pentax lenses. Personally I like the 43mm a lot, but I wouldn't (usually) use it for subjects where the rendition of out of focus elements is critical - this is not a problem for me since: 1) I have other lenses to use for that; and 2) those sorts of pictures are more often shot with a slightly longer FL anyway.
There is much less controversy around the other Limited series lenses: the 31mm f1.8 and 77mm f1.8 are pretty much universally admired - and rightly so.
There's a big choice in Pentax 'standard' lenses, especially if you include the used market. You'll find a comprehensive lsiting at:
http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/normal/index.html
where you will see that as well as the 43mm, there are f1.4 and f1.7 50mm AF lenses, and an f2.8 AF macro 50 too - and lots of manual focus variants. All are very good to outstanding. You can read up user opinions on most of these at:
http://stans-photography.info/LongComments.html#50 mm Lenses
AF or MF, you're going to find something that will suit you: a lot of these lenses are true classics.
Peter
jeremy - 27 Jul 2006 14:22 GMT "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
> 43mm, not 50mm. 43 is actually a very nice length. Sorry. I forgot to turn on my brain when I wrote that response. I mentally associate 50mm with "Normal Lenses." Should have been paying attention.
Pinaki - 28 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT > Sorry. I forgot to turn on my brain when I wrote that response. I mentally > associate 50mm with "Normal Lenses." Should have been paying attention. No problem. I should have figured that - just that it is _way_ beyond my league, both pricewise as well as cappability-wise :-( I am a complete novice. I bought the camera mainly to take snapshots of my 3yr old daughter. Hence the preference for built-in flash, and AF (although tracking her drives the AF nuts). Why not a digital P&S? Um, well, you know, an SLR looks better! (sheepish grin)
The discussions have been very informative. BTW, doesn't f1.9 autimatically mean less smooth bokeh than, say, f1.4?
Best, Pinaki.
Bandicoot - 30 Jul 2006 13:45 GMT [snip]
> The discussions have been very informative. BTW, doesn't f1.9 > autimatically mean less smooth bokeh than, say, f1.4? No, not so.
The larger the aperture (smaller the f number) the shallower the Depth of Field is, so the faster the rate at which the image goes out of focus with increasing distance from the plane of sharp focus, either towards or away from the cvamera. So faster lenses can give softer backgrounds when focussed on the same point with the background the same distance behind that point.
However, at the same aperture, the DoF is the same regardless of what the lens's maximum aperture is.
Also, and this is the key point, the quality of the bokeh doesn't depend on the degree of unsharpness of the image or the extent of the DoF. Bokeh is about how attractive the unfocused areas look, so two lenses both at, say, f4, both focussed at, say, six feet, will produce equal degrees of unsharpness on a background that is, say, 12 feet away, BUT those backgrounds may not 'look' the same. The difference is most obvious in how any out of focus point light sources are imaged, but overall it is a matter of how 'creamy' or 'cloud-like' the out of focus areas appear. (The word "bokeh" comes from the Japanese for clouds.)
So maximum aperture detrmines how 'fast' you can get an image to defocus behind or in front of your plane of sharp focus, while bokeh determines how 'attractive' (or, looked at another way, how non-distracting from the subject) those out of focus areas look.
The key determinants of a lens's bokeh appear to be the degree of correction of spherical abberration, and the shape of the aperture - which is in turn determined by the number of aperture blades and how straight or curved they are.
That's all a simplification of a complex subject. The factors affecting bokeh can be measured objectively, but how you feel about the result of all those factors combining in a given picture is, in the end, a wholly subjective matter.
Peter
jeremy - 27 Jul 2006 14:25 GMT "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
> It's extremely_ sharp and contrasty, but some users argue that that is at > the > cost of bokeh that is less attractive than in other Pentax lenses. I'd have tried one, but I am averse to autofocus. I have my eye on the 50mm f/1.2 SMCPA. That would make for a bright viewfinder, and I can only imagine what the bokeh is like . . .
Bandicoot - 28 Jul 2006 19:27 GMT > "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message > > > It's extremely_ sharp and contrasty, but some users argue that that is at > > the cost of bokeh that is less attractive than in other Pentax lenses. > > I'd have tried one, but I am averse to autofocus. Try one anyway ;-)
I prefer manual focus for almost everything, but the three Limiteds have a really nice manual focus feel. It's not the same as the feel of a manual Pentax lens, but it's different rather than worse - it's much nicer than any other AF lenses I've used used in manual focus (except the F* and FA* ones with the focus clutch), and, come to that, nicer than many other manufacturer's manual focus lenses. The build quality of these lenses is simply outstanding.
> I have my eye on the 50mm f/1.2 SMCPA. That would make for a > bright viewfinder, and I can only imagine what the bokeh is like . . . Yes, the image is very bright, and with the shallow depth of field, things really 'snap' in and out of focus. It's only half a stop faster than an f1.4, and a lot heavier, but the reduction in DoF wide open is noticeable. I think it is less sharp than the f1.4 at apertures wider than f5.6 or f8, but after that it is a very useable 'sharp' lens. Wider, its advantages are all about bokeh, speed, and ease of focusing.
I like it most with B&W, and it is a very nice lens for semi-candid portraits (I also like the 85mm f1.8 K and 135mm f1.8 A* for this, and no doubt the 85mm f1.4 would be nice too, if I could afford one). Someone asked about 50mm as a portrait lens here a while ago, and I put up a picture taken with the f1.2 as an example:
http://www.bard-hill.co.uk/temp/Corinna_50mm_f1-2.jpg
This one was taken during the interval of a rock concert, in a bar lit only by flourescent tubes, with the Pentax SMCPA 50mm f1.2 wide open on TMax3200 rated at 1600. You can see in the eyes how shallow the DoF is, and how fast it falls off in the background: those blurry shapes are people probably no more than twice as far from me as the model is.
I recently did a portrait lens and where the model's father said it reminded him of the movie star portraits of the '40s. I think this was partly due to my lighting, but also to the very shallow DoF, which would have reminded him (subconsciously, I expect) of the effect of those LF Hollywood portraits - not that I'm saying the lens is like LF in any other respects, of course!
Peter
Mark Roberts - 26 Jul 2006 23:39 GMT >Dear Jeremy and Mark, > Thanks for your responses. The reason for buying an AF body was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >($170 for the FA 50/1.4 vs. ~$50 for the M 50/1.7). Jeremy, I was not >aware of the FA 50/1.9, or did you mean the 50/1.4? He meant the 43mm f/1.9. http://www.robertstech.com/graphics/pages/43-limit.htm One of Pentax's remarkable "Limited" series of lenses. Expensive but worth the price :) http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-02-05-02.shtml
 Signature Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835
BMW Rider - 29 Jul 2006 05:39 GMT My experience is totally with Nikon and I'm not sure how much is applicable to Pentax, but things to consider_
I have 3 different AF bodies, 2 fast AF zooms and got knows how many manual focus lenses. From 16mm to 300mm. Very exceptional lenses and very pricey.
I shoot in either manual or aperture preferred. The manual lenses work just fine in those two modes and 99% of the time those are the only modes I use with the AF lenses.
The focusing screen in one of my bodies makes it tough to focus using the screen. However all 3 bodies give a metered indication that the subject is in focus, with both manual or AF lenses. Therefore there is never a problem with accurate focusing.
My favorite lens, probably use it at least 50% of the time is the 50F1.4, followed by either the 16 or 18 mm. Action shots (like basketball or baseball) I tend to use my 80-200 AF lens - PRE-FOCUSED in Manual mode.
The AF bodies offer big advantages over the older generation manual bodies in terms of motor drive, film DX, metering, flash automation, etc. However AF is sorta of a mixed blessing and I find that manual focusing is quicker and more convienet 80% of the time. I think the biggest exception is shooting small children with a lens in the range of 80 to 135 mm, AF clearly wins.
> Does anyone have experience with using MF lenses on Pentax ZX-5? > I want to buy a 50mm prime -- the 50/1.7 M version seems to be the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > TIA, > Pinaki.
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