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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / Digital Photo / March 2005Choice of viewfinder
Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has a small ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD on its back) and the other a large (2.5"; not hinged) TTL LCD (with *no* optical viewfinder), which one do you prefer? More importantly, can you explain the rationale behind your choice? This question was brought on by the recent announcement of Ricoh Caplio R1v and R2, the latter being the one without the optical viewfinder. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_caplior1v.asp http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05022801ricohr2.asp I've read the page on viewfinders: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/Viewfinder_01.htm This would be my first purchase of a digital camera, though I have used a Contaflex SLR, a Cannon EF, and a Fuji Fotonex compact zoom film camera before. Any personal view would be very much appreciated.  SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the camera against the mass of your head. Some cameras last much longer with the LCD turned off. I have a Pentax and get about a week out of a charge with the LCD fully on and flash 50%. Previous ones I have owned killed the batteries in a few hours. Stick with LioN batteries and not AA cells for many reasons. > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has a small > ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD on its back) and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Contaflex SLR, a Cannon EF, and a Fuji Fotonex compact zoom film camera > before. Any personal view would be very much appreciated. > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has > > a small ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Previous ones I have owned killed the batteries in a few hours. > Stick with LioN batteries and not AA cells for many reasons. Thanks. You are right. The hand shake is always a constant worry in a light and small (held up between finger tips) camera. I experienced that while playing with a wrist (-watch) digicam; it was not easy to get a shot without blur. My recent reading, as a result of your response highlighting this issue, directed my attention to the more recently released ultra compact models which had some interesting innovative strategies in alleviating this problem. I must hold on to my cash and wait! As to the issue of battery capacity, there are now 2000, 2300, 2500, and even 2800 mAh NiMH AA batteries. The highest Li-Ion rechargeable AAs are only about 1700+, I believe. So, the newest NiMH AAs should outperform the Li-Ion ones and they are much cheaper too, and more importantly they are also less damaging to the environment. SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] No! Proprietary format LioN cells are usually cheaper in the end and have much higher Ah ratings. The contacts are made better, protected against corrosion and finger touching, fit in the compartment better and therfore do not bend the contacts when vibration occurs. AA batteries are always breaking contact with vibration and the springs are usually made cheaply unlike the proprietary contacts that are gold plated for low resistance. LioN can be charged and pick them up a month later and shoot your camera. NiMh or NiCad will be dead within a week and do not like having that done to them or they won't last a year. LioN like to be kept on charge, and do not have to be cycled. They are much better batteries. > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Li-Ion ones and they are much cheaper too, and more importantly they are > also less damaging to the environment. > > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > kept on charge, and do not have to be cycled. They are much better > batteries. I don't have experience with Li-Ion cells but have been using NiCd from the 70's and NiMH, the start of the 80's. In those days, a pair of NiMH AA cells were charged £10 (or was that £20?)! They also exhibited 'memory effect' as the NiCds. Nearly all my batteries then were rechargeables of one sort or another. And, some of these early ones are *still* with me and being used today! You have been misinformed: the NiMH cells do not 'die' in a month. I am not too sure about the NiCd ones though, for their performance seemed to me to be erratic and there was no pattern to it I could tell. Thankfully nowadays the widespread use, and the lower (and lowering) prices of NiMHs have almost rendered the NiCds obsolete in most applications. You alluded to the easy maltreatment of the spring contacts. That really is a function of the design as integral part of the battery compartment, i.e. the camera itself, and cannot lay blame on the battery cells, whether Li-Ion or NiMH. It could not have escaped you that I am a great fan of the NiMHs. <g> SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] According to manufacturers specs NiMh will self discharge at 1% per day. Personal experience shows it is worse once the cells have been ccycled a few times. Charge your NiMh cells and then put them in a drawer for two months and see what they have left for usage. Not much and probably dead if they are over a year old. Try this with LioN batteries and they will most likely be at 99.5% of charge. Even after years of shelf sitting they will still have useful charge. However, NiMh and NiCads need to be cycled to avoid memory effects (NiMh less) and LioN does not need to be cycled as it does nothing for the battery. NiMh need to be kept charged or it will die an early death. Most circuits cut them off befre complete exhaustion to avoid this. The US military recommends NiCad and NiMh be stored completely discharged with a short circuit across them to avoid nickle bridging internally. I have been repairing battery equipment, chargers and replacing these batteries in equipment since 1973. AA batteries are crap and do not have special contact arrangements on them for good contact, gold or double shot tin and the holders, as you say, are almost always crap also. The round corners on the tubular shape do not allow for high capacity like custom LioN batteries in rectangular packs. Many run over 3 Ah in miniature cameras. Ever see an AAA battery with that capacity? NiMh runs 750 mAh tops > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > Glmmle Bob wrote: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > cells were charged #10 (or was that #20?)! They also exhibited 'memory > effect' as the NiCds. Nearly all my batteries then were rechargeables of > one sort or another. And, some of these early ones are *still* with me and > being used today! You have been misinformed: the NiMH cells do not 'die' in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It could not have escaped you that I am a great fan of the NiMHs. <g> > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and hard > to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the camera against the > mass of your head. It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's). They do make universal and custom hoods for some cameras to block the sunlight reflecting off the LCD. Good point about helping stabilize the camera (viewfinder). It's tough to hold a camera out away from your body and keep it stable. And with us old farts who's eyes aren't what they used to be, reading an image on an LCD can be a pain. > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one > > > has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large TTL LCD [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look > like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's).... Very true. But it is also true that accurate focusing is more assured using a TTL optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in subcompact/compact cameras are invariably of dismal resolution (as defined by the pixel number). A large LCD, as against a tiny one, for viewing pictures just taken in a social situation is, on the other hand, a great facilitator in building friendship/relationship. It really is best to have the unavailable combination, a viewfinder and a large LCD! Now I can dream about the promised flexible, foldable organic crystal display units, can't I? <g> SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the 5 megapixel element while focusing. The subcompact camera LCD is some Pentax Optios is a 2" LCD, much bigger than some of your so-called "pro" cameras from last month. > > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > combination, a viewfinder and a large LCD! Now I can dream about the > promised flexible, foldable organic crystal display units, can't I? <g> >> > Glmmle Bob wrote: >> > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the > 5 megapixel element while focusing.... I don't understand your assertion that the LSD resolution is "a piece of the 5 megapixel element". My view is that for comparison the native resolution of a LSD display should be the pixel *density* of the panel expressed in a unit of , say, megapixel per square centimeter. Most ultracompact/compact cameras have 1.8" screen, some 2.0" and a few 2.5". The number of pixels, however, varies between 110 000 and 140 000 per screen. Because this number is relatively unchanged, it can even be argued that the larger the screen, the poorer the density, i.e. resolution. Admittedly the larger sized pixel in the larger LSD panels is easier to the eyes and looks 'sharper'. SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] When you manually focus on a Pentax Optio the centre of the picture becomes zoomed in some 8 or 16 x and each pixel in the photo is each pixel on the LCD display (or close) There is no more resolution to be obtained. This works for the sharpest focus you can get. After you stop adjusting focus for more than a few seconds the picture zooms back out and you see the whole frame. Works like a charm and somebody was quite genius to think of this technique. > >> > Glmmle Bob wrote: > >> > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > the poorer the density, i.e. resolution. Admittedly the larger sized pixel > in the larger LSD panels is easier to the eyes and looks 'sharper'. > > > > > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > and you see the whole frame. Works like a charm and somebody was > quite genius to think of this technique. Aha....so it's now automated! You see, one technique to get in focus is to follow this sequence of steps: compose > zoom in > focus > zoom out > re-compose > release shutter. Tedious but it works. Your zoomed in area being made the same size as the LCD to maximize its available resolving power followed by a restoration of the original frame (zooming back out) works in the same principle. Brilliant! SignatureLin Chung. [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty. Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.] This process is all automatically done by the camera siftware whenyou touch the manual focus joystick. > > > > > > Glmmle Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > power followed by a restoration of the original frame (zooming back out) > works in the same principle. Brilliant! > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and > hard [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > farts who's eyes aren't what they used to be, reading an image on an LCD can > be a pain. I see through the viewfinder of my Oly 8080 the same image as displayed on the rear LCD viewer. Is this usual or a plus feature of this particular non SLR digital camera? Thanks. SignatureBuild a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he will be warm the rest of his life. - John Dey |
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